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Thread: Coronavirus - II

  1. #1921
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Nature .com mask study.


    Among the samples collected without a face mask, we found that the majority of participants with influenza virus and coronavirus infection did not shed detectable virus in respiratory droplets or aerosols, whereas for rhinovirus we detected virus in aerosols in 19 of 34 (56%) participants (compared to 4 of 10 (40%) for coronavirus and 8 of 23 (35%) for influenza). For those who did shed virus in respiratory droplets and aerosols, viral load in both tended to be low (Fig. 1). Given the high collection efficiency of the G-II (ref. 19) and given that each exhaled breath collection was conducted for 30 min, this might imply that prolonged close contact would be required for transmission to occur, even if transmission was primarily via aerosols, as has been described for rhinovirus colds20. Our results also indicate that there could be considerable heterogeneity in contagiousness of individuals with coronavirus and influenza virus infections.

    The major limitation of our study was the large proportion of participants with undetectable viral shedding in exhaled breath for each of the viruses studied. We could have increased the sampling duration beyond 30 min to increase the viral shedding being captured, at the cost of acceptability in some participants. An alternative approach would be to invite participants to perform forced coughs during exhaled breath collection12. However, it was the aim of our present study to focus on recovering respiratory virus in exhaled breath in a real-life situation and we expected that some individuals during an acute respiratory illness would not cough much or at all. Indeed, we identified virus RNA in a small number of participants who did not cough at all during the 30-min exhaled breath collection, which would suggest droplet and aerosol routes of transmission are possible from individuals with no obvious signs or symptoms. Another limitation is that we did not confirm the infectivity of coronavirus or rhinovirus detected in exhaled breath. While the G-II was designed to preserve viability of viruses in aerosols, and in the present study we were able to identify infectious influenza virus in aerosols, we did not attempt to culture coronavirus or rhinovirus from the corresponding aerosol samples.

    Hmmmmm. Interesting read. Didnít want to link it directly but itís easily found.
    Big butnotsomuch-burly

  2. #1922

    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    From what you've posted it is hard to make any conclusion other than some people have the virus and some people shed it and others don't.
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  3. #1923
    Flashaholic* turbodog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Quote Originally Posted by Greta View Post
    From the CDC website:

    [/LIST]
    "Below the epidemic threshold"?

    Numbers are low as it's ramping up in young populations. Eventually it moves further into/back into more vulnerable ones. Also... even less vulnerable populations can flood healthcare eventually. MS's 10 largest hospitals had no ICU capacity 2-3 days ago. Which for our state means pretty much any hospital worth visiting...
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  4. #1924

    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Quote Originally Posted by Monocrom View Post
    You too.
    Don't worry about offending folks.
    Heck, you're probably the most loved member on all of CPF.
    id love that to be true. cpf means so much to me
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  5. #1925

    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Well it is official..... I can no longer show my face in public without fear of breaking the law. I never would have thought growing up that hiding your face while entering a bank would be required and that showing your face in public would be illegal. What an upsidedown world we now live in..
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  6. #1926

    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    am i the only one who watches the news and expects asthon kutcher to jump out and point at us saying that where punked?
    LED's have gotten too bright in our stuff. Many nights I'm awakened by my modem lights blinking.had help with my sig thank you for your help.

  7. #1927
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Arc View Post
    Well it is official..... I can no longer show my face in public without fear of breaking the law. I never would have thought growing up that hiding your face while entering a bank would be required and that showing your face in public would be illegal. What an upsidedown world we now live in..
    Agreed! I told the gal at my bank the other day it was rather odd coming into the bank with my face covered. Never thought Iíd see the day!

  8. #1928

    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Made a Whole Foods run this morning. They lifted the no more than 2 eggs and butter restriction, which was nice.

  9. #1929
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Quote Originally Posted by 5S8Zh5 View Post
    Made a Whole Foods run this morning. They lifted the no more than 2 eggs and butter restriction, which was nice.
    Yes, that is nice. I am sorry to hear that your part of the country is still having food restriction issues.
    We're doing pretty well here in NJ.

    ---------------------------------------

    A recent observance of mine.

    People who I know, who really like to socialize, have tamed it back a bit.
    They are comfortable with their "social circle of friends" but stand way back if they don't know you, or if you are 'safe'
    That IMO is a HUGE improvement.

    We have a friend. Hugely strong construction guy, one who works all day, and lifts weights 3 times a week. Watches his diet, the whole nine yards. He and his wife got hit with the virus, and could hardly talk. They survived. The effect they had on the group was enlightening. "Holy snot! If it could get HIM! It can get me, and anyone I know!

    As a result, having small "social circle of friends" became important.

    ---------
    OTOH, I know of those who have allowed themselves to become a member of a small circle of friends, because living in solitude became unbearable.

    If people maintain small groups of friends, contact tracing will be easier.
    My Grand Kids call me Poppy

  10. #1930
    Flashaholic* turbodog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    I've been training for this for a long time. I've worked alone for the past 22 years.

    If if I survived the bluebell shortage of '15 then this is no problem.
    This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time.
    Be prepared for the truth.

  11. #1931
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Maybe interesting and a base for the decision wearing a mask or not:
    https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6928e2.htm?s_cid=mm6928e2_w
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  12. #1932

    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Quote Originally Posted by WarriorOfLight View Post
    Maybe interesting and a base for the decision wearing a mask or not:
    https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6928e2.htm?s_cid=mm6928e2_w
    While this is interesting a few things I didn't notice.
    1)How did stylist B get the virus from Stylist A? If she was wearing a mask then that spoils this "revelation"
    2)Is is a lot harder to get the virus to people who aren't facing you? If they cough on your back can you get infected?
    3)We assume Stylist A gave it to Stylist B, but in actuality BOTH stylists could have got is at the same time from either the same source or different sources and that source could have been a customer wearing a mask prior to this "revelation" that infected both, just one developed systems at a slower pace which lead the conclusions made herein.
    4)It is possible that it actually is a lot harder to pass the virus regardless of masks than is being claimed touting masks (again) making you "safe" and that these two people were not really infecting anyone at all even though they were tested positive (false positive perhaps)
    5)This is not an independent study as the CDC is not neutral on the mask issues and you probably won't see negative aspects regarding masks here other than N95 of which is not applicable to the crappy masks worn by most.
    A study that would help us is someone not wearing a mask in the crowd of customers and someone not wearing a mask that is a stylist and nobody gets infected, but that study would be conveniently lost in the narrative here.
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  13. #1933

    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Quote Originally Posted by 5S8Zh5 View Post
    Made a Whole Foods run this morning. They lifted the no more than 2 eggs and butter restriction, which was nice.
    Whole Foods.... There's one about 20 blocks away from me, and I'd be happier if that distance was longer. Many supermarket chains have done an admirable job of protecting their workers and cashiers from the risk of infection. Whole Foods is consistently on the news here in New York City for not doing much of anything for their workers. Among infection rates for supermarket cashiers, one guess which chain has the worst average. Whole Foods does a good job of convincing the public to pay quite a bit more for groceries by presenting itself as caring and very progressive. But actions, or in their case lack of actions in helping to protect their workers, speaks louder than words or marketing.
    "The World is insane. With tiny spots of sanity, here and there... Not the other way around!" - John Cleese.

  14. #1934

    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Quote Originally Posted by Monocrom View Post
    Whole Foods.... There's one about 20 blocks away from me, and I'd be happier if that distance was longer. Many supermarket chains have done an admirable job of protecting their workers and cashiers from the risk of infection. Whole Foods is consistently on the news here in New York City for not doing much of anything for their workers. Among infection rates for supermarket cashiers, one guess which chain has the worst average. Whole Foods does a good job of convincing the public to pay quite a bit more for groceries by presenting itself as caring and very progressive. But actions, or in their case lack of actions in helping to protect their workers, speaks louder than words or marketing.
    Since being sold to Amazon, it has changed considerably from a customerís point of view, and Iím sure the employees donít feel much better than Amazon warehouse workers. All ďessentialĒ but treated as expendable. And if you speak out, watch out.

  15. #1935
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    Quote Originally Posted by ledbetter View Post
    Since being sold to Amazon, it has changed considerably from a customerís point of view, and Iím sure the employees donít feel much better than Amazon warehouse workers. All ďessentialĒ but treated as expendable. And if you speak out, watch out.
    People confuse 'speaking out' with disclosing pictures they should not have. Then the employer has clear grounds to fire them for breaching an employment contract. Or they spam a company-wide mailing list and get canned. The law has very clear protections for workers unless you go looking for trouble.

    Now, back your regularly scheduled topic.

    I washed my mask with my whites... red mask turned all my socks pink.
    This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time.
    Be prepared for the truth.

  16. #1936

    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Quote Originally Posted by turbodog View Post
    People confuse 'speaking out' with disclosing pictures they should not have. Then the employer has clear grounds to fire them for breaching an employment contract. Or they spam a company-wide mailing list and get canned. The law has very clear protections for workers unless you go looking for trouble.

    Now, back your regularly scheduled topic.


    I washed my mask with my whites... red mask turned all my socks pink.
    As they said in the 50ís, Better dead than red.Iím sure Robert Foster would agree.
    Last edited by ledbetter; 07-18-2020 at 02:13 AM.

  17. #1937
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Foster? What am I out of the loop on?
    This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time.
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  18. #1938

    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    So, all across the city tomorrow; several public pools are going to open up. In the middle of a deadly planetary pandemic. In the most heavily infected city on the planet. But there's going to be "guidelines" in place. Which we all know everyone is going to ignore. Seriously, I'm starting to wonder if the City and State leaders are truly this moronically incompetent or if they're working intentionally with the virus.

    Though it's not as though there's any type of historical records that point to what can happen when a major city re-opens too early after a deadly planetary pandemic hits. Yup! No historical evidence whatsoever Especially not in San Francisco....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ6LEc-oVPQ
    Last edited by Monocrom; 07-24-2020 at 04:15 PM. Reason: Fixed broken link.
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  19. #1939
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    My biggest concern is school reopening. Thereís just no way your going to keep kids hugging and grabbing each other. No way. My children go to a pretty small school 550 K-12 and thereís still 30-40 kids per class. And the way this spreads by the time one comes down with it the whole school will be infected.Without a vaccine, starting school up again could be catastrophic
    If i had one day left to live i would want to be at my workplace.Because every day is like a frickin eternity.

  20. #1940

    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Quote Originally Posted by thermal guy View Post
    My biggest concern is school reopening. Thereís just no way your going to keep kids hugging and grabbing each other. No way. My children go to a pretty small school 550 K-12 and thereís still 30-40 kids per class. And the way this spreads by the time one comes down with it the whole school will be infected.Without a vaccine, starting school up again could be catastrophic

    Oh no, it will be. Absolutely. Kids getting infected. Bringing the virus home with them.... Going up to grand-ma, giving her a hug. Hollywood couldn't write a better nightmare fuel script.
    "The World is insane. With tiny spots of sanity, here and there... Not the other way around!" - John Cleese.

  21. #1941
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    Default Coronavirus - II

    Other countries are doing school. How are they doing it? We should Do that. Virtual learning might be okay-ish for middle and upper class kids, but for many students itís basically a joke. American students already rank poorly by many metrics; not sure how many school years they can afford to miss at this point. Gotta get it figured out people.

  22. #1942
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    I really don't see how we can open schools safely in the fall. Younger kids are likely to spread it wildly like Monocrom said because they have no concept of infection. Older kids are more prone to want to party together. Even if the classrooms themselves are safe in terms of spread out seats, masks, disinfecting, what happens when the bell rings and kids pour into the hallways in close proximity to each other? What about everyone touching the same handrails? And laughing and screaming in the halls, propelling the virus for dozens of feet? It only takes one of these conditions for things to go south.

  23. #1943

    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Quote Originally Posted by PhotonWrangler View Post
    I really don't see how we can open schools safely in the fall. Younger kids are likely to spread it wildly like Monocrom said because they have no concept of infection. Older kids are more prone to want to party together. Even if the classrooms themselves are safe in terms of spread out seats, masks, disinfecting, what happens when the bell rings and kids pour into the hallways in close proximity to each other? What about everyone touching the same handrails? And laughing and screaming in the halls, propelling the virus for dozens of feet? It only takes one of these conditions for things to go south.
    Actually from what I've read the younger kids are usually not the ones spreading the virus.
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0710100934.htm
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  24. #1944
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Thereís not really much of anything anyone can believe about this virus. Hate to say it but everything is speculation and bad data. My wifeís friend and both her daughters have it now. Both daughters are very very young. Their babysitter has it......Kids can spread it. The babysitter/mother were almost never in contact. Babysitter tested positive after the kids. Strange thing is dad doesnít have it, he was the one delivering children to the babysitter
    Big butnotsomuch-burly

  25. #1945
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Schools can't control nits (head lice) never mind a virus!!!

  26. #1946

    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Quote Originally Posted by bigburly912 View Post
    Thereís not really much of anything anyone can believe about this virus. Hate to say it but everything is speculation and bad data. My wifeís friend and both her daughters have it now. Both daughters are very very young. Their babysitter has it......Kids can spread it. The babysitter/mother were almost never in contact. Babysitter tested positive after the kids. Strange thing is dad doesnít have it, he was the one delivering children to the babysitter

    Will send prayers that they all recover. It's devastating to hear of extremely young children getting infected.
    "The World is insane. With tiny spots of sanity, here and there... Not the other way around!" - John Cleese.

  27. #1947
    *Flashaholic* thermal guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave D View Post
    Schools can't control nits (head lice) never mind a virus!!!
    Thatís exactly correct. Schools will have to go completely online till we get a handle on this.All parents Here were sent a survey and that was one of the possibilities. My recommendation was for that or at the very least 2 days At school and 3 days Online. Another thing I wanted was for students to stay in classroom and have the teachers come to them. Keep them out of the hallways. All this of course is assuming that the students will listen to there teachers and from what I gather and have seen at my school students have ZERO respect and basically run the school.God if I spoke up to a teacher! That crap didnít happen when I was in school. Hell, we had a shop teacher that used to throw hammers around the room when the class got out of hand. And Iím still alive. But then I used to ride in the back of pickup trucks drink water out of a hose and walk to school with 3 feet of snow on the ground 😁
    If i had one day left to live i would want to be at my workplace.Because every day is like a frickin eternity.

  28. #1948

    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Quote Originally Posted by bigburly912 View Post
    Thereís not really much of anything anyone can believe about this virus. Hate to say it but everything is speculation and bad data. My wifeís friend and both her daughters have it now. Both daughters are very very young. Their babysitter has it......Kids can spread it. The babysitter/mother were almost never in contact. Babysitter tested positive after the kids. Strange thing is dad doesnít have it, he was the one delivering children to the babysitter
    With this virus and testing issues who really knows what order the virus infected and passed forward to. According to that study I posted the link to young children are 1/10 or less likely to pass on the infection than older children and adults.
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  29. #1949
    Flashaholic* turbodog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    I'm cautioning you all to take this seriously. It's very real. It's suppressing other, non c-19, people from getting healthcare.

    And it's growing exponentially. Don't believe me? Go look at the total US infections. It's growing at just under 2% a day, doubling about once a month in total numbers infected and daily increases.

    Yes, there is some number of people infected that did NOT get tested. That's largely irrelevant... a full ICU is a full ICU. PPE is still in short supply. Testing reagents are in a nationwide shortage. Etc.

    Concerning the kids passing it on. I don't know, and it does not appear to matter either. We can argue about the 'input' side of the equation all day long. Fact is, the 'output' side, the confirmed infected, is growing exponentially and steadily.
    This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time.
    Be prepared for the truth.

  30. #1950
    *Flashaholic* thermal guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Iím pretty sure weíre all on board with how dangerous this thing is. And my family comes first. If I donít feel going back to school is safe there butts are staying home.
    If i had one day left to live i would want to be at my workplace.Because every day is like a frickin eternity.

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