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Thread: Surefire bulb

  1. #1
    *Flashaholic* thermal guy's Avatar
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    Default Surefire bulb

    Anyone have a guess as to how many years down the road It will be before factory P60/P90 become a rare item?
    I mean there must still me millions out there.
    If i had one day left to live i would want to be at my workplace.Because every day is like a frickin eternity.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Surefire bulb

    Now that everything has gone LED it could be quite some time since not that many are poofing their P60 anymore.
    John 3:16

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Surefire bulb

    It will take quite a while for them to become rare in my parts box, I'd expect
    ... is the archimedes peak

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Surefire bulb

    Quote Originally Posted by bykfixer View Post
    Now that everything has gone LED it could be quite some time since not that many are poofing their P60 anymore.
    You know never thought of it like that before. Your probably right.
    If i had one day left to live i would want to be at my workplace.Because every day is like a frickin eternity.

  5. #5
    Administrator Kestrel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire bulb

    The P90's will run out far far earlier, due to those being compatible with 2x LiIon rechargeables; i.e. guilt-free lumens.

    With P60's being only compatible with 2xCR123 primaries, I don't see anybody really running enough CR123's to have much effect on inventory.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Surefire bulb

    I could probably use a few more P90, but I'm pretty good on P60
    ... is the archimedes peak

  7. #7
    Flashaholic* fivemega's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire bulb

    Quote Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
    With P60's being only compatible with 2xCR123 primaries, I don't see anybody really running enough CR123's to have much effect on inventory.
    It is also possible to use P60 powering up by 4 AA Eneloops but ofcource in larger body.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Surefire bulb

    Quote Originally Posted by bykfixer View Post
    Now that everything has gone LED it could be quite some time since not that many are poofing their P60 anymore.
    True, although when I was new to CPF, and, thinking that I was a clever lad, I poofed two in a row using a 9P, THREE A14's, and five freshly charged Eneloops. 5x a nominal 1.2 equals six volts, right? Ah, you're only middle-aged once...
    Last edited by novice; 05-24-2020 at 01:09 AM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Surefire bulb

    You mean when you were novice to flashlights there uh, novice?
    John 3:16

  10. #10
    *Flashaholic* thermal guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire bulb

    I see what you did there 😁
    If i had one day left to live i would want to be at my workplace.Because every day is like a frickin eternity.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Surefire bulb

    Quote Originally Posted by archimedes View Post
    It will take quite a while for them to become rare in my parts box, I'd expect
    Same here.

    I did poof a Laser Products P60 accidently. Dratz. I tried to see if 4 cells would fit in a 6R and inadvertantly touched tightened down the tailcap far enough to light it. It lasted about 1/2 second at whatever volts 4 123's threw at it. (10.4-ish?)
    Later it made a mighty fine host for a 3200 Yugi though.
    John 3:16

  12. #12
    *Flashaholic* thermal guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire bulb

    I blew a Laser Products R30! Paid like 25 bucks for it.Was playing around with some other bulbs and somehow stuck it in a 6P with 2 X16340ís!! Poor guy didnít stand a chance.
    Last edited by thermal guy; 05-30-2020 at 02:58 AM.
    If i had one day left to live i would want to be at my workplace.Because every day is like a frickin eternity.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Surefire bulb

    Poofed an R30? A $25 R30? I believe I would have cried.

    R30's are pretty scarce. R60's aren't common either but seemingly not as scarce as R30's.
    John 3:16

  14. #14
    *Flashaholic* thermal guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire bulb

    Well I wasnít happy. Kept it around for months after that. Liked that it had red lettering on it lmao.
    If i had one day left to live i would want to be at my workplace.Because every day is like a frickin eternity.

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    Default Re: Surefire bulb

    Not everything is P60! There are other Surefire lamps, you insensitive 3P/6P/9P clods!



    How did that P60 lamp get in there?

  16. #16

    Default Re: Surefire bulb

    It's unfortunate that there are so few (any?) options for appropriate rechargeable cell configurations for the MN02 and MN03. I have a Fivemega 3xAA C-head that works with the P60 and P61, but if there was ever a custom 3xAA E-head body that would have worked with the MN02/MN03, I'm unaware of it.
    Last edited by novice; 06-25-2020 at 09:07 PM.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Surefire bulb

    The MN01 can be driven off 2AA if one is fortunate enough to have a Surefire E2L AA Outdoorsman. I have to think this would be a very pleasant, fun little setup to use.

    Will the Malkoff 2AA bodies accept an incan E series head and incan lamp, and function properly?

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    Default Re: Surefire bulb

    Quote Originally Posted by chillinn View Post
    Not everything is P60! There are other Surefire lamps, you insensitive 3P/6P/9P clods!

    How did that P60 lamp get in there?
    That's not an entirely accurate representation of those lamps. The MN02 also came in a dark blue base, the MN03 in tan base, the MN10 in an orange base (MN11 pink). I believe the MN16 may have had a purple version, though I can't remember for certain right now off the top of my head. The P61 has a few variations out there, some with frosted bulbs and some without, some are marked Laser Products, and some Surefire. Most of the unfrosted ones are marked Laser Products, and most of the frosted ones are marked Surefire.

    Quote Originally Posted by DayofReckoning View Post
    The MN01 can be driven off 2AA if one is fortunate enough to have a Surefire E2L AA Outdoorsman. I have to think this would be a very pleasant, fun little setup to use.
    Great setup, been using that for years.
    ampdude

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Surefire bulb

    I think some certain models of those old colored bulbs are notorious for exploding in the head. Can't remember which one's, or if it was just one.

    EDIT: To clarify, it was an M-Series bulb.
    Last edited by DayofReckoning; 06-18-2020 at 05:08 PM.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Surefire bulb

    Quote Originally Posted by DayofReckoning View Post
    The MN01 can be driven off 2AA if one is fortunate enough to have a Surefire E2L AA Outdoorsman. I have to think this would be a very pleasant, fun little setup to use.

    Will the Malkoff 2AA bodies accept an incan E series head and incan lamp, and function properly?
    I run the MN01 using my Malkoff 2AA biody. Works fine. Usinfg Eneloops, of course, and will run with primary AA's

    Bill
    Last edited by Bullzeyebill; 06-18-2020 at 07:56 PM.

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    Unhappy Re: Surefire bulb

    Quote Originally Posted by novice View Post
    It's unfortunate that there are so few (any?) options for appropriate rechargeable cell options for the MN02 and MN03.
    They both work in single cell Li-ion secondary setup. Many have said this is bad for these lamps, causes darkening glass they say, shortens the life of the lamp they say. But I have never noticed any such thing. Maybe that might happen with a single primary, but a single Li-ion secondary voltage discharge curve is within the same voltage range as that of two Lithium primaries. The worst thing I have seen about running them this way on a single Li-ion secondary is the color temperature gets too warm... but you'll only notice that for short time until the natural white point recalibrator in our brains kicks in. MN03 are far more plentiful than MN01, so I would wager most used E1e you find will have a MN03 in it rather than the stock MN01.


    Quote Originally Posted by ampdude View Post
    That's not an entirely accurate representation of those lamps. The MN02 also came in a dark blue base...
    I have never seen one as light blue as in that picture, and I have thought about this before and suspect the image is color-uncorrected simply to show that it is blue, otherwise it might look black in a photo.


    Quote Originally Posted by DayofReckoning View Post
    I think some certain models of those old colored bulbs are notorious for exploding in the head. Can't remember which one's, or if it was just one.

    EDIT: To clarify, it was an M-Series bulb.
    I have been running MN02 on a single Li-ion secondary for dozens and dozens of hours, days and days, really, have not seen even one MN02 die, but I am possibly slightly under-driving them. I have ed MN03 many times, always my mistake, absent-mindedly using 2 Li-ion secondaries. I have killed 2x MN01, no mistakes, bought used and I used them until they just stopped working. I have never seen any of the MN explode, but it's not like I'm a pro or anything, no extreme usage with recommended cells. I like to underdrive.
    Last edited by chillinn; 06-18-2020 at 08:51 PM.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Surefire bulb

    Quote Originally Posted by DayofReckoning View Post
    I think some certain models of those old colored bulbs are notorious for exploding in the head. Can't remember which one's, or if it was just one.

    EDIT: To clarify, it was an M-Series bulb.
    I believe it was the pink MN11. I can't remember for sure. I don't use most of the colored base MN lamps. I just keep them around as collector accessories. I normally only use the black base MN lamps, I think I have one orange base MN10 that I use sometimes and it has been flawless, but it almost never gets used over the years.

    Quote Originally Posted by chillinn View Post
    I have never seen one as light blue as in that picture, and I have thought about this before and suspect the image is color-uncorrected simply to show that it is blue, otherwise it might look black in a photo.
    That's odd as most of the MN02's are light blue base. Only the earlier MN02's were the darker blue, the later ones where always light blue. I have plenty of examples of both and can post pics. It is definitely a thing.
    ampdude

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    Default Re: Surefire bulb

    Quote Originally Posted by ampdude View Post
    That's odd as most of the MN02's are light blue base. Only the earlier MN02's were the darker blue, the later ones where always light blue. I have plenty of examples of both and can post pics. It is definitely a thing.
    Not so odd, as I am not experienced, haven't ever been experienced, having only seen about nearly a dozen E first hand, only one Outdoorsman, and the 5 or so vintage replacement MN02 (so 6 total) I have collected, all are dark blue. This is not a representative sample. But I like accuracy, so it is actually good to know my reasoning was incorrect, the image is accurate, and there are lots of MN02 out there that are light blue... so I won't be stunned if/when I see one.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Surefire bulb

    Some of my E lights have what appears to be MN03 assemblies (white type). A tear drop executive and a couple E2E lights. My E2e has the dark blue MN02 assembly. I keep those original since they are shelf queens. All were acquired 2nd hand so I do not know if the original bulb is in each one.

    My other E lights are users with defender bodies and scout tailcaps. They are either outfitted with Lumens Factory bulb assemblies of SingLED's.
    John 3:16

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Surefire bulb

    A lot of the teardrop E2's came with tan base MN03's, but I think later on there were a few with the white base. It could be original. I think my original E2-BK came with a white base. Haven't owned that light in a long time though, so I can't remember for certain.
    ampdude

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Surefire bulb

    So due credit where credit is due, Surefire developed the most amazing incan lamp assemblies for the most amazing incan flashlights, and I expect will never be matched or beaten, and if the 2 of 3 types pf MN0x I have used (not counting the MN03 I irresponsibly abused, but including MA02) are representative of most of their incan assemblies, they last a very long time, I expect very often as long as the flashlight is in use before retired to the shelf to admire.

    And this makes me question Surefire's quick retirement of incan. Surefire must have invested in considerable R&D to arguably become the single best producer of incan flashlights... ever. So the industry shifted to LED, and except for NOS and what's still in the warehouse, stopped selling incan. Their LED may have rapidly become impressively bright, but many point out they are pretty much all too cool without much thought put into what a light needs to be, with no apparent exploration into purposes of accurate color rendition.

    I think they made an obvious and huge mistake. There is no reason I see for dropping incan for LED, rather than ramping down and having a more boutique incan catalog, and LED and incan produced and sold side by side. Nothing would stop those incan from still selling at their premium prices. It appears they didn't even really do any market research, and this was just a knee jerk reaction without much rational consideration to compete with China and Japan flashlight producers. I would not call Surefire LED ordinary in the details, but in the large picture, they are exactly ordinary (ignoring their ruggedness, which should not be done) and very expensive LED flashlights. I see it is all as very crazy, taking their own legs out from under themselves, when they could have gone on forever as the last producer of incan flashlights, and held those sales and profits without much issue.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Surefire bulb

    LED lights far out sold incan when SureFire pulled the plug.

    Much of the R&D put into SureFire bulb assemblies was for ensuring they were uber reliable in adverse conditions in order to sell by the million to military and law enforcement. When those contracts expired SureFire down sized, like a lot. By then the mighty LED had taken over the consumer market. SureFire had all but turned over operations to a big corparate investor who looked at numbers on a computer screen and decided to turn production away from any more incan R&D.
    It was a good decision for investors but not good for flashaholics.

    When PK left in 2013 that was pretty much the end of the incan light development at SureFire. But they had begun to focus on stuff like the Vampire, the U2, Kroma etc and decided the future for their military and law enforcement buyers was the cool white LED and infrared since that is where the future of military style lighting tools was headed. To this day that still remains the case and probably always will until something better than LED's takes over.

    When it was shouted out loud here at CPF that incan lights were no longer in the SureFire catalog, it was time to stock up while prices and supply were good. I found lots of bulb assemblies except for the A2. Those had already become fairly scarce back in 2016 and if you found them they were $35-50.

    Thank goodness for Lumens Factory.
    John 3:16

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    Default Re: Surefire bulb

    I inconsiderately made the all too common mistake of assuming all customers were me, forgetting it could be successfully argued Surefire only has 1 or 2 customers: military, and to lesser extent, LEO. I wonder exactly how distant the margins were individually and en masse between Surefire incan and LED.


    Quote Originally Posted by bykfixer View Post
    probably always will until something better than LED's takes over.
    I suspect we know what those are right now, but when or if they will take over has a lot of variables, and I speak of lasers and, of course, incan. LED has more or less reached, if not the theoretical limits of its brightness and efficiency, then the practical limits, while incan, at least, can actually theoretically and practically outperform both measures (doing so by recycling the normally lost heat into light, if I understand correctly what MIT did).


    Quote Originally Posted by bykfixer View Post
    Thank goodness for Lumens Factory.
    Amen to this savior (and FiveMega, and newer-comer Tad Customs) of decent eye-friendly enlightenment (fwiw, tongues of fire are incan light sources).
    Last edited by chillinn; 06-24-2020 at 05:23 AM.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Surefire bulb

    The good thing that Surfire did was to to add Halogen to there Xenon bulbs, not just the high end lumen bulbs , but to their lower amp rating bulbs. That is why the last so long.
    Last edited by Bullzeyebill; 06-24-2020 at 10:58 PM.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Surefire bulb

    Surefire bulbs are weird. Yes, they are the most durable, reliable, longest lasting lamps in existence. Yes, I have had lamps last an ungodly amount of time.
    Yes, I trust them damn near as much as I do many LED lights.

    But at the same time, for a company who prided itself on engineering superior beam quality, a lot, not all, but a lot of Surefire Lamps have kind of crappy hotspots and shapes. If you compare Mark's Lumens Factory lamps hotspots to many Surefire hotspots you will find Lumens Factory produce rounder, cleaner, more symmetrical beam in most cases. I think my Tads with 3712 in the E2E has a cleaner beam than the Surefire MN03. To add insult to injury, most, if not all Surefire lamps are tip frosted, where output is lost, and whereas Lumens Factory lamps are not.

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