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View Poll Results: Would you like to see Fenix use lower and moonlight brightness settings?

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  • Yes

    37 92.50%
  • No, what's available is fine

    3 7.50%
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Thread: Fenix, 30 Lumens is too much brightness for low mode

  1. #1
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    Default Fenix, 30 Lumens is too much brightness for low mode

    I am noticing the trend of Fenix using 30 lumens on many lights as the lowest brightness setting. In my opinion, this is just too bright, and also doesn't offer the very long runtimes of lower brightness modes and moonlight modes. Disappointingly, I have had to pass on serveral of your new lights, including the PD35R, PD40R because of this.

    I do wish that Fenix engineers would consider giving us lower lumen modes on some of these lights, 30lumens is excessive. Something else to consider, I have seen much interest and appreciation for sub 1 lumen moonlight modes from customers as well.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Fenix, 30 Lumens is too much brightness for low mode

    Quote Originally Posted by DayofReckoning View Post
    I am noticing the trend of Fenix using 30 lumens on many lights as the lowest brightness setting. In my opinion, this is just too bright, and also doesn't offer the very long runtimes of lower brightness modes and moonlight modes. Disappointingly, I have had to pass on serveral of your new lights, including the PD35R, PD40R because of this.

    I do wish that Fenix engineers would consider giving us lower lumen modes on some of these lights, 30lumens is excessive. Something else to consider, I have seen much interest and appreciation for sub 1 lumen moonlight modes from customers as well.

    Thank you for your comments and for creating this poll! We'll be interested to see the numbers that come from it. We do hear this subject come up occasionally so we know that you aren't alone in your thoughts on this.
    We have begun to see some lower output levels like a 1 lumen option with the new UC35 V2 and we hope to see more variety like this in the future as well. We forward any and all customer comments to the engineers for consideration so I'll do the same with this thread as well. Thanks again for your critique and thank you for being a Fenix Fan!
    Last edited by fenix store; 06-11-2020 at 10:19 AM.

  3. #3
    Flashaholic* LeanBurn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fenix, 30 Lumens is too much brightness for low mode

    I passed on the E12 for just this reason (plus no neutral tint)....I had to have a sub lumen mode.
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  4. #4
    Flashaholic* martinaee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fenix, 30 Lumens is too much brightness for low mode

    LOL 100% said yes so far. I actually love the modes they choose on most of their lights, but it would be great to have another extra low/moonlight mode on most of them. So for example have a 1 lumen mode, 10 lumen mode, 50, 150, 1000, etc.

    I find far too often, and not just with Fenix, that there aren't nearly enough brightness settings on the low end. If your eyes are adjusted to basically no light at night time (I use my lights indoors a lot before bed) then 1 lumen, 5, 15, 30 are all quite different.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Fenix, 30 Lumens is too much brightness for low mode

    Thank you for your response FenixStore. I very much appreciate this thread being forwarded to Fenix.

    How much brightness for a low mode is a bit of a subjective thing. Personally, I find that for general task, 5 lumens to 20 lumens, at most, seems perfect. As far as moonlight modes, you will find that many here actually prefer one that is less than 1 lumen.

    And as mentioned earlier, I also wish Fenix would consider offering more Neutral LED options.
    Last edited by DayofReckoning; 06-13-2020 at 08:35 PM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Fenix, 30 Lumens is too much brightness for low mode

    Yes. 5 lumens for low would be great. 30 lumens is just stupid.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Fenix, 30 Lumens is too much brightness for low mode

    Quote Originally Posted by busseguy View Post
    Yes. 5 lumens for low would be great. 30 lumens is just stupid.
    Indeed, 5 is enough to see for most tasks, doesn't blast your night adapted eyes with too much brightness, and provides long, long runtimes.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Fenix, 30 Lumens is too much brightness for low mode

    For some lights 30 is a great low. Big lights used as an alternate light source in power outages. 30 is great for that with mega runtime.
    Other lights, less is more. Small ones like the E12. Perhaps a last used memory option with your favorite low/low/low, not quite so low or an ordinary use it for searching a small perimeter setting.
    John 3:16

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Fenix, 30 Lumens is too much brightness for low mode

    I agree, 30 lumens is fine for some lights. The problem is Fenix is using 30 lumens on small, EDC sized lights. I probably should have specified that better in my OP and poll. And that should be considered before voting.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Fenix, 30 Lumens is too much brightness for low mode

    Since Fenix appears to be reading this thread, and since the emitter color temperature has already been mentioned more than once, I encourage the Fenix engineers to consider offering the emitter used in the HM23 headlamp as an option in the line of lights that use a 1xAA cell and 2xAA cell configuration. The emitter used in the HM23 headlamp is a neutral white (outdoor white to use the Fenix advertising parlance). I have two of these headlamps (different backpacks, different purposes), and both appear about 4500K, with no unwelcome tint shift. This emitter is MUCH better at color rendering than the cool white emitters in many Fenix lights.

    C'mon engineers, throw us flashaholics a bone, and offer this emitter as an option. Pleeeeze? I'll be your friend...

  11. #11

    Default Re: Fenix, 30 Lumens is too much brightness for low mode

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveTheDude View Post
    Since Fenix appears to be reading this thread, and since the emitter color temperature has already been mentioned more than once, I encourage the Fenix engineers to consider offering the emitter used in the HM23 headlamp as an option in the line of lights that use a 1xAA cell and 2xAA cell configuration. The emitter used in the HM23 headlamp is a neutral white (outdoor white to use the Fenix advertising parlance). I have two of these headlamps (different backpacks, different purposes), and both appear about 4500K, with no unwelcome tint shift. This emitter is MUCH better at color rendering than the cool white emitters in many Fenix lights.

    C'mon engineers, throw us flashaholics a bone, and offer this emitter as an option. Pleeeeze? I'll be your friend...

    Thanks for the detailed suggestion! I'll let them know what you said. Hopefully they'll take the suggestion so we can be friends with DaveTheDude!

  12. #12
    Flashaholic colight's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fenix, 30 Lumens is too much brightness for low mode

    For the light with 10,000 lumens output like LR35R, I think 30 lumens of Low mode is fairly OK, but for E series flashlight, I totally agree with 5 lumens of Low.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Fenix, 30 Lumens is too much brightness for low mode

    Just a bump to see if we can get some more poll results.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Fenix, 30 Lumens is too much brightness for low mode

    The last 2 Fenix lights I bought was the version2.0 PD35. I gave one to a buddy as a gift. It has a 3 lumen ECO Mode that runs for 430 hours for that cave survival scenario that thankfully has not happened. I chose the PD35v2.0 because of the 3 lumen ECO Mode. It's nice to be prepared for anything.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Fenix, 30 Lumens is too much brightness for low mode

    Yes, I feel the same way. My lights all have adjustable moonlight modes. Night lights need less than one lumen IMO.

  16. #16
    Flashaholic* Lou Minescence's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fenix, 30 Lumens is too much brightness for low mode

    When Iím at work I never use a lumen setting under 100 because Iím working under fluorescent lights. Iím usually using about 200 lumens to look at things. Maybe Fenix is designing lights to use in daylight situations or well lit areas and lower lumen settings are not needed.
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  17. #17
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    Default Re: Fenix, 30 Lumens is too much brightness for low mode

    But lights should have the ability to do BOTH. No good reason not to give their lights a lower brightness setting.

    In fact, I feel manufacturers are catching on and more are giving us lower moonlight modes, except Fenix, they are going the opposite direction!

  18. #18

    Default Re: Fenix, 30 Lumens is too much brightness for low mode

    I have a Tk22UE that I use sometimes at night for reading various things, and a lot of the time it's difficult to use it in that way because of how intense the reflection can be off of say.. a map, notebook, or anything that might require a light source, but don't want to give away your position. I think ~10 lumen would be just fine. Their suppose to aid, not blind the end user.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Fenix, 30 Lumens is too much brightness for low mode

    I like my tk22 from 2014 with its 7 lumen low, about right for that kind of light. Small edc lights I havenít bought a fenix light since the first edition e01 due to no low modes low enough.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Fenix, 30 Lumens is too much brightness for low mode

    Thank you everyone for your input. Seems like the overwhelming majority of us here agree. I hope we can get enough votes and results here that maybe this can have an impact, and Fenix will consider changing it's stance.

    I have been pretty vocal here about this issue, but I do so because, as this picture will tell you, I have been a Fenix fan for a very long time, and I'm disheartened that I've had to pass on so many models. BTW, that PD20 R2 has a nice low mode of 9 lumens


  21. #21

    Default Re: Fenix, 30 Lumens is too much brightness for low mode

    In larger, duty type lights I don't necessarily see a lack of moonlight as a deal breaker; for me big lights are just for blasting lumens. Double digit low modes aren't much of a concern.

    On the other hand, small EDC lights - 5 lumen low is acceptable, 1 lumen or less is ideal.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Fenix, 30 Lumens is too much brightness for low mode

    ^^ this right here.
    John 3:16

  23. #23
    Flashaholic* seery's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fenix, 30 Lumens is too much brightness for low mode

    The X65 is our daily use light around the horse barn and property. And the 3 levels we use most often are 4-500-12,000 lumens.

    If it lacked the 4 lumen mode, it definitely wouldnít be our go-to light.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Fenix, 30 Lumens is too much brightness for low mode

    Quote Originally Posted by fenix store View Post
    Thank you for your comments and for creating this poll! We'll be interested to see the numbers that come from it. We do hear this subject come up occasionally so we know that you aren't alone in your thoughts on this.
    We have begun to see some lower output levels like a 1 lumen option with the new UC35 V2 and we hope to see more variety like this in the future as well. We forward any and all customer comments to the engineers for consideration so I'll do the same with this thread as well. Thanks again for your critique and thank you for being a Fenix Fan!
    It's alarming that such a poll even exists. What else do you expect in the resulting numbers? It goes to show how disconnected with the market Fenix is today.

    The low mode is the most used for many people in many scenarios. Many applications demand it, bedside, in the tent, etc. Even in the tactical lights, you could want stealth hence low lumens. EDC lights? ~1lm below 5lm is a must.

    It's for this reason I took a pass on Tk22 and several other lights.

    And please allow flat-top 18650s in UC35 and PD35! One shouldn't need to worry about what battery to put in. Tools should just work. It's crazy Fenix won't take unprotected cells and Zebralight won't take protected ones...

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Fenix, 30 Lumens is too much brightness for low mode

    Tint and Battery choice options have been brought up, and they are legitimate concerns, and things we all would love to see change. But let's try to keep the thread on the issue on the low mode brightness if we can please.

    Fenix has a history of having low modes that were kind of on the high side. However, this new crop of lights using 30 lumens (50 in some cases) as the lowest is "the straw that broke the camels back" for me as a long time Fenix fan. I think most will agree that between 5 and 20 lumens is the sweet spot for a good long lasting general purpose low mode. The 30 lumens they are using crosses over that threshold where it's just too bright, and doesn't offer long runtimes to boot.

    I recall a post here where Fenix Store brought this to an engineers attention, and the response was something to the effect of "why would you want a low brightness setting on a bigger light?". Really? I don't understand this engineers logic.

    Virtually EVERY other manufacturer is gravitating towards including lower and lower brightness settings, and Fenix, for whatever reason, is going the opposite direction. It's so frustrating, and just doesn't make any sense.

    I don't believe the physical size or total output of the light should matter in the equation either. A dim, low mode is just as useful on a 10000 lumen monster as it is a tiny EDC.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Fenix, 30 Lumens is too much brightness for low mode

    Quote Originally Posted by PartyPete View Post
    In larger, duty type lights I don't necessarily see a lack of moonlight as a deal breaker; for me big lights are just for blasting lumens. Double digit low modes aren't much of a concern.

    On the other hand, small EDC lights - 5 lumen low is acceptable, 1 lumen or less is ideal.
    Is Tk22 a duty light? How many tk22's are bought to for duty, general usage, outdoors, and fan collection?

    I agree for duty light 30lm low is ok. But does another ~3lm level hurt? For all of other usages 3lm would be very useful. Why taking it out?

    Don't ask me to bring a secondary light just to have that ~3lm level. I don't want to drill two holes on the wall one for my bigger cat one for the smaller.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Fenix, 30 Lumens is too much brightness for low mode

    Quote Originally Posted by ktsl View Post
    Is Tk22 a duty light? How many tk22's are bought to for duty, general usage, outdoors, and fan collection?

    I agree for duty light 30lm low is ok. But does another ~3lm level hurt? For all of other usages 3lm would be very useful. Why taking it out?

    Don't ask me to bring a secondary light just to have that ~3lm level. I don't want to drill two holes on the wall one for my bigger cat one for the smaller.
    New Fenix TK06 coming out. Lowest level? 50 Lumens. I just don't know what they are thinking.

    https://fonarik-market.ru/fonar-feni...inus-sst20-l4/

  28. #28

    Default Re: Fenix, 30 Lumens is too much brightness for low mode

    Quote Originally Posted by DayofReckoning View Post
    New Fenix TK06 coming out. Lowest level? 50 Lumens. I just don't know what they are thinking.

    https://fonarik-market.ru/fonar-feni...inus-sst20-l4/
    Sigh.

    Maybe it's a marketing trick. By having the low to be 50lm it creates an image of power. Reminds me of some surefire models. This surely sounds dumb. But think about it - it may just work for the general public...

    A flashlight Muggle may look at a Fenix with "3lm, 50lm, 300lm and 1000lm" and think "hmmm... another Chinese product... maybe 3lm is really what's it's good for and the rest are just hoax...."

  29. #29

    Default Re: Fenix, 30 Lumens is too much brightness for low mode

    I think a lot of people don't realize how bright a single digit lumen mode truly is. Ironically being brought up the first half of my life using incans mainly I should have a better grip on how useful low lumens can be but over the years of LED light use starting from dim 5mm to high output 80 lumen to now 1000+ lumens I sort of got used to NOT having a very low mode (lets call it VL mode) around 5 lumens. I think if the low gets too low you start having to wait for your night vision to operate and if too high it is more than needed and can in some cases annoy others on the receiving side of the light. I walk in dark places and a 5 lumen mode it nice till a car drives by and it takes a few minutes to readjust. A sublumen mode is useless when there is almost any light pollution at all in the area. The huge advantage of a VL mode is that compared to higher modes that are being used often it takes so low of power that the lumens are essentially FREE as you can run on VL mode for 100 hours which would probably only add a minute or two of high mode or turbo mode time.
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  30. #30

    Default Re: Fenix, 30 Lumens is too much brightness for low mode

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Arc View Post
    I walk in dark places and a 5 lumen mode it nice till a car drives by and it takes a few minutes to readjust. A sublumen mode is useless when there is almost any light pollution at all in the area.
    This is just one scenario you considered, my friend.

    I use a small light to check on my baby at night. For this 1lm is perfect, since I don't want it to disturb my baby. LED lights are very bright, exactly what you've just said. If you look into the light, I bet you can barely withstand 5lm, and nothing more.

    Another usage for ultra low mode is in the tent when camping. During the night it's pitch black out there in the wilderness. Even 10 lm will destroy my night vision, anything more just hurts. If you REALLY did camping before, you'd know.

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