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Thread: Most powerful commercially available portable HID spotlight?

  1. #121
    Flashaholic* XeRay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Most powerful commercially available portable HID spotlight?

    How is it held into and mounted to the reflector ?

  2. #122
    Flashaholic* Alex1234's Avatar
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    Default Re: Most powerful commercially available portable HID spotlight?

    Quote Originally Posted by XeRay View Post
    How is it held into and mounted to the reflector ?
    The reflector housing just threads on.

    hid 6 by Alex Littig, on Flickr

    hid 8 by Alex Littig, on Flickr
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  3. #123
    *Flashaholic* idleprocess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Most powerful commercially available portable HID spotlight?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magio View Post
    I should clarify and say performance advantages. Throw, runtime, lumens, and efficiency.
    I'm kind of an LED guy, but the technology has its limits. In a reasonably compact battery-powered device, LED will struggle to match the throw and runtime of well-engineered HID, primarily for the reasons that XeRay has been mentioning: thermal management and the greater ease of collimating the pseudo-1D HID arc vs the larger 2D surface of LED.
    I apologize that this letter is so long; I did not have time to write a short letter

  4. #124

    Default Re: Most powerful commercially available portable HID spotlight?

    Quote Originally Posted by idleprocess View Post
    I'm kind of an LED guy, but the technology has its limits. In a reasonably compact battery-powered device, LED will struggle to match the throw and runtime of well-engineered HID, primarily for the reasons that XeRay has been mentioning: thermal management and the greater ease of collimating the pseudo-1D HID arc vs the larger 2D surface of LED.
    Here is a post from Patriot from a while back that stated his Polarion PH50 has between 500-525k lux. https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...=1#post4186762 There are number of LED flashlights today with 3x that lux.

    Here is a test of the PH40 in an integrating sphere. http://gixer.mbnet.fi/HID/PH40_LabsphereFS2.png It's OTF lumens is only 2905. There are a number of LED lights today that can nearly maintain those lumens for double the runtime. The Acebeam K75 can maintain 2500lumens for 2.25hrs. The Polarion can only run 40mins.
    Last edited by Magio; 07-26-2020 at 11:01 PM.

  5. #125
    *Flashaholic* idleprocess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Most powerful commercially available portable HID spotlight?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magio View Post
    Here is a post from Patriot from a while back that stated his Polarion PH50 has between 500-525k lux. https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...=1#post4186762 There are number of LED flashlights today with 3x that lux.
    A quick search suggests that the PH50 has a 90mm head diameter so the reflector is apt to be in the vicinity of 75mm. I'm aware of some LED flashlights with similar claimed performance that generally have significantly larger reflectors.
    I apologize that this letter is so long; I did not have time to write a short letter

  6. #126
    Flashaholic* XeRay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Most powerful commercially available portable HID spotlight?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex1234 View Post
    The reflector housing just threads on
    Do you know if there are 2 vs 3 wires feeding the igniter from the ballast ? The igniter is that smaller box between the ballast and the bulb.

  7. #127
    Flashaholic* Alex1234's Avatar
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    Default Re: Most powerful commercially available portable HID spotlight?

    Quote Originally Posted by XeRay View Post
    Do you know if there are 2 vs 3 wires feeding the igniter from the ballast ? The igniter is that smaller box between the ballast and the bulb.
    Here is a better photo

    hid 9 by Alex Littig, on Flickr
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  8. #128
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    Default Re: Most powerful commercially available portable HID spotlight?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magio View Post
    Here is a post from Patriot from a while back that stated his Polarion PH50 has between 500-525k lux. https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...=1#post4186762 There are number of LED flashlights today with 3x that lux.

    Here is a test of the PH40 in an integrating sphere. http://gixer.mbnet.fi/HID/PH40_LabsphereFS2.png It's OTF lumens is only 2905. There are a number of LED lights today that can nearly maintain those lumens for double the runtime. The Acebeam K75 can maintain 2500lumens for 2.25hrs. The Polarion can only run 40mins.
    Don't bother Magio, It's a complete waste of time, which is why I exited from the thread.

    It's almost as if (a.) No one has read the thread and the proof presented (b.) hypotheticals and calculations should be believed over real hard data, AND ACTUAL PHYSICAL LIGHTS that show the total opposite is true. We are in an HID section after all.
    Last edited by DayofReckoning; 07-27-2020 at 06:46 AM.

  9. #129

    Default Re: Most powerful commercially available portable HID spotlight?

    For completeness: PH50 was replaced by PH50D several years ago. Polarion Li-Ion batteries have been upgraded from 4400 mAh to 5700 mAh and run time increased accordingly. 40-minute run time indicates a worn out battery.

    HID and LED lights are different products intended for different applications. Polarion has released an LED searchlight (PL-E702) that is rated to 600 meters at 5700 K. This rating is based on the same standard used to qualify Polarion's own HID lights.

    The ANSI/PLATO FL1 specification calculates the throw based on square root of ("peak beam intensity"/.25 LUX). A higher peak beam automatically gives a longer throw. https://www.streamlight.com/docs/def.../ansi-pres.pdf. See page 11.

    Military and law enforcement organizations are more conservative. They require usable light at 1 mile or 1 km, not theoretical light. As a result, HID manufacturers tend to be more conservative in their ratings and talk about real life conditions (albeit at different price points).

    Illumination distance, in the end, is the ability to send photons into a given solid angle. It has been our experience that HID lights outperform LED lights beyond 600 meters. This could change in the future, perhaps with solid state cooling though we remain skeptical about the lateral dispersion which is inherent in 2D emitters.

  10. #130
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    Default Re: Most powerful commercially available portable HID spotlight?

    Perhaps there is an alternative reality here where the real performance numbers that exist that disprove the narrative being spun here are not visible to some. Maybe even a situation where the actual physical LED lights themselves, which defy all the conjecture and hypotheticals that are being flung around like poo here, are not actually visible to some

    Cognitive dissonance? Personal Financial interests in promoting a product from their company?

    IDK, I digress, as I'm going against my own advice that I gave earlier indicating it's a complete waste of time here.

    Last edited by DayofReckoning; 07-27-2020 at 07:56 AM.

  11. #131
    Flashaholic* XeRay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Most powerful commercially available portable HID spotlight?

    Quote Originally Posted by DayofReckoning View Post
    It's almost as if (a.) No one has read the thread and the proof presented (b.) hypotheticals and calculations should be believed over real hard data, AND ACTUAL PHYSICAL LIGHTS that show the total opposite is true. We are in an HID section after all.
    Almost as if, but not quite true... "proof presented" not proof as in objective testing and reliable sources.
    This conversation didn't fare much better over in the LED section either. Also wasn't nearly as much debate there as well, look for yourself. The last comment was maybe 3 weeks ago and it's now on the 2nd page. The conversation there wasn't nearly as "exciting" there as here.

  12. #132
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    Default Re: Most powerful commercially available portable HID spotlight?

    Quote Originally Posted by XeRay View Post
    Almost as if, but not quite true... "proof presented" not proof as in objective testing and reliable sources.
    This conversation didn't fare much better over in the LED section either. Also wasn't nearly as much debate there as well, look for yourself. The last comment was maybe 3 weeks ago and it's now on the 2nd page. The conversation there wasn't nearly as "exciting" there as here.
    I'm afraid this is getting old and stale, and I'm certain others reading this thread can see that. For the 3rd time, Will you please provide the candela and lux numbers for your LV-LX50 and LV-LX70? This is the 3rd time I have requested them.

  13. #133
    Flashaholic* XeRay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Most powerful commercially available portable HID spotlight?

    Quote Originally Posted by DayofReckoning View Post
    Perhaps there is an alternative reality here where the real performance numbers that exist that disprove the narrative being spun here are not visible to some. Maybe even a situation where the actual physical LED lights themselves, which defy all the conjecture and hypotheticals that are being flung around like poo here, are not actually visible to some

    Cognitive dissonance? Personal Financial interests in promoting a product from their company?

    IDK, I digress, as I'm going against my own advice that I gave earlier indicating it's a complete waste of time here.

    The way this is heading. Next you are going to promote the flat earth agenda.The Flat Earthers use the same sort of language as you in your last post.

  14. #134
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    Default Re: Most powerful commercially available portable HID spotlight?

    Quote Originally Posted by XeRay View Post
    The way this is heading. Next you are going to promote the flat earth agenda.The Flat Earthers use the same sort of language as you in your last post.
    Those candela and Lux numbers please.

  15. #135
    Flashaholic* XeRay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Most powerful commercially available portable HID spotlight?

    Quote Originally Posted by DayofReckoning View Post
    I'm afraid this is getting old and stale, and I'm certain others reading this thread can see that. For the 3rd time, Will you please provide the candela and lux numbers for your LV-LX50 and LV-LX70? This is the 3rd time I have requested them.
    No I won't because you will be comparing them to unreliable sources with unverified (not lab) data. Okay a fool would agree to such a back alley request, now becoming a demand.
    Last edited by XeRay; 07-27-2020 at 08:22 AM.

  16. #136
    Flashaholic* XeRay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Most powerful commercially available portable HID spotlight?

    Quote Originally Posted by DayofReckoning View Post
    Those candela and Lux numbers please.
    Your demands will have to wait, for a day in the not so distant future, when a highly respected and neutral CPF member decides to take this on. There are a few of these people here, such as BVH and others.
    Last edited by XeRay; 07-27-2020 at 09:58 AM.

  17. #137
    Flashaholic* Alex1234's Avatar
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    Default Re: Most powerful commercially available portable HID spotlight?

    cant we all just enjoy both technologies. Both are awesome. HID for its throw, superior single point source lumen output and the ability to run max output continuously, Bulbs are easily replaceable by the user

    And LED for it instant on capabilities, superior versatility in flashlight size(led flashlights can be very small), cost, more user friendly for the average Joe. The ability to have a big range in output from moonlight to turbo and all points in between, and LED lifespan is longer then HID, but not replaceable by the average user.
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  18. #138
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    Default Re: Most powerful commercially available portable HID spotlight?

    Quote Originally Posted by XeRay View Post
    No I won't because you will be comparing them to unreliable sources with unverified (not lab) data. Okay a fool would agree to such a back alley request, now becoming a demand.
    Case settled. I've positively proven my case here beyond a reasonable shadow of a doubt. The above response says it all. The results speak for themselves here. No further input is required.

    The BLANKET STATEMENT and myth in Handheld searchlights that "LED's simply cannot match HID" has effectively been debunked here. The amount of confidence in some's performance metrics of their product is about as strong as the confidence one gets when seeing a 4 figure product coming with a 1 year warranty.

    EDIT: Notice about how now he's going to rely on members to provide his numbers, but yet when I did the same thing it was unreliable? Wow.

    BTW, the candela of the LV-LX50 is around the 600,000 to 750,000 mark, at best, give or take.
    Last edited by DayofReckoning; 07-27-2020 at 08:41 AM.

  19. #139
    Flashaholic* XeRay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Most powerful commercially available portable HID spotlight?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex1234 View Post
    Here is a better photo hid 9 by Alex Littig, on Flickr
    You may have to peek inside that cable braided mesh to see if 3 wires from the Ballast to the igniter, or only 2. Or perhaps open the ballast if you can't peek inside the mesh.
    For a more detailed discussion call us at XeVision.com phone number on the web.

  20. #140
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    Default Re: Most powerful commercially available portable HID spotlight?

    Quote Originally Posted by XeRay View Post
    You may have to peek inside that cable braided mesh to see if 3 wires from the Ballast to the igniter, or only 2. Or perhaps open the ballast if you can't peek inside the mesh.
    For a more detailed discussion call us at XeVision.com phone number on the web.
    Ok i need a torx bit which i dont have. hopefully i can see inside the mesh
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  21. #141
    Flashaholic* XeRay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Most powerful commercially available portable HID spotlight?

    Quote Originally Posted by DayofReckoning View Post
    Case settled. I've positively proven my case here beyond a reasonable shadow of a doubt. The above response says it all. The results speak for themselves here. No further input is required.

    The BLANKET STATEMENT and myth in Handheld searchlights that "LED's simply cannot match HID" has effectively been debunked here. The amount of confidence in some's performance metrics of their product is about as strong as the confidence one gets when seeing a 4 figure product coming with a 1 year warranty.

    EDIT: Notice about how now he's going to rely on members to provide his numbers, but yet when I did the same thing it was unreliable? Wow.

    BTW, the candela of the LV-LX50 is around the 600,000 to 750,000 mark, at best, give or take.

    I'll say it again : Your demands will have to wait, for a day in the not so distant future, when a highly respected and neutral CPF member decides to take this on. There are a few of these people here, such as BVH and others.

    More Flat Earth like arguments, I only quoted a well known LED forum and LED user CPF member that refuted your subjective numbers. His numbers are obviously equally as subjective and as "valid" as yours. Your HID test unit is about 9 or 10 years old and only 50 watts max., not with an electroformed reflector (big improvement), not a known aged bulb (Lumens maintenance), in fact its an unknown bulb. the LX50 has a relatively small reflector as well. We also have no idea of the condition of or which ballast it has installed. That unit did not come from XeVision. You failed to even try to make a fair performance comparison
    The only thing you proved is your lack of any scientific methods or techniques to prove what you had already decided in advance, before coming to this forum thread. More Flat Earth like behavior.
    Last edited by XeRay; 07-27-2020 at 10:02 AM.

  22. #142
    Flashaholic* XeRay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Most powerful commercially available portable HID spotlight?

    Quote Originally Posted by DayofReckoning View Post
    Case settled. I've positively proven my case here beyond a reasonable shadow of a doubt. The above response says it all. The results speak for themselves here. No further input is required.

    The BLANKET STATEMENT and myth in Handheld searchlights that "LED's simply cannot match HID" has effectively been debunked here. The amount of confidence in some's performance metrics of their product is about as strong as the confidence one gets when seeing a 4 figure product coming with a 1 year warranty.

    EDIT: Notice about how now he's going to rely on members to provide his numbers, but yet when I did the same thing it was unreliable? Wow.

    BTW, the candela of the LV-LX50 is around the 600,000 to 750,000 mark, at best, give or take.
    It seems you like to say things in 3's so I will repeat again too.

    I'll say it again : Your demands will have to wait, for a day in the not so distant future, when a highly respected and neutral CPF member decides to take this on. There are a few of these people here, such as BVH and others.

  23. #143
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    Default Re: Most powerful commercially available portable HID spotlight?

    Quote Originally Posted by XeRay View Post
    More Flat Earth like arguments, I only quoted a well known LED forum and LED user CPF member that refuted your subjective numbers. His numbers are obviously equally as subjective and as "valid" as yours. Your HID test unit is about 10 years old and only 50 watts max., not with an electroformed reflector (big improvement), not a known aged bulb (Lumens maintenance), in fact its an unknown bulb. the LX50 has a relatively small reflector as well. We also have no idea of the condition of or which ballast it has installed. That unit did not come from XeVision. You failed to even try to make a fair performance comparison
    The only thing you proved is your lack of any scientific methods or techniques to prove what you had already decided in advance, before coming to this forum thread. More Flat Earth like behavior.
    Quite possibly the greatest combination of assumptions, strawman argumentation, contradictions, deflection, and projection I have seen condensed into a single paragraph. At this point, we will just have to agree to disagree, Sir.

  24. #144
    Flashaholic* XeRay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Most powerful commercially available portable HID spotlight?

    Quote Originally Posted by DayofReckoning View Post
    Quite possibly the greatest combination of strawman argumentation, contradiction, deflection, and projection I have seen condensed into a single paragraph. At this point, we will just have to agree to disagree, Sir.

    You are the "master" of such, rather a bit hypocritical I would say. Lets see if anyone jumps to the defense of your honor and or claims. Pretty much everyone has bowed out of this discussion realizing your mind was already made up. You should have stayed out, when you claimed you were exiting for good. Don't call me a condescending Sir, also I'm not your father.

  25. #145
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    Default Re: Most powerful commercially available portable HID spotlight?

    I feel confident anyone reading this conversation can draw their own conclusions. The "Sir", was not meant to be condescending, you took it the wrong way.

    Again, we will have to agree to disagree.

  26. #146
    Flashaholic* XeRay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Most powerful commercially available portable HID spotlight?

    Quote Originally Posted by DayofReckoning View Post
    I feel confident anyone reading this conversation can draw their own conclusions.
    On that statement finally, I feel everyone can agree, and logically/rationally as well.

  27. #147
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    Default Re: Most powerful commercially available portable HID spotlight?

    Quote Originally Posted by XeRay View Post
    You may have to peek inside that cable braided mesh to see if 3 wires from the Ballast to the igniter, or only 2. Or perhaps open the ballast if you can't peek inside the mesh.
    For a more detailed discussion call us at XeVision.com phone number on the web.
    There are two wires going from the ballast to the igniter.
    Flashlights: R90TS, Maxtoch Xsword L2K LEP, K75vn, Fire Fox FF-5 3400k, Fire Fox FF-5 6000K, Wowtac A4, K1VN90, Weben L60, Fenix LD42, W10VN, BLF 18650 flashlight, UVBEAST V3, LM10VN90, Brandless LEP, F21VN, E10VN VNX2 W2.1, Nitcore TIP SE


  28. #148
    Flashaholic* XeRay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Most powerful commercially available portable HID spotlight?

    Ok,
    It would be best if you called us to discuss the detailed options. Phone number on our website
    Dan

  29. #149
    Flashaholic* Alex1234's Avatar
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    Default Re: Most powerful commercially available portable HID spotlight?

    Quote Originally Posted by XeRay View Post
    Ok,
    It would be best if you called us to discuss the detailed options. Phone number on our website
    Dan
    will do
    Flashlights: R90TS, Maxtoch Xsword L2K LEP, K75vn, Fire Fox FF-5 3400k, Fire Fox FF-5 6000K, Wowtac A4, K1VN90, Weben L60, Fenix LD42, W10VN, BLF 18650 flashlight, UVBEAST V3, LM10VN90, Brandless LEP, F21VN, E10VN VNX2 W2.1, Nitcore TIP SE


  30. #150
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    Default Re: Most powerful commercially available portable HID spotlight?

    I'll never understand the LED fanboyism. They are good for what they are, but they don't cover everything.

    I fired up my ancient Firefoxes FF3 next to my 3,300 lumen 4000K (neutral/warm) "Thrunite" on high mode and the FF3 made the Thrunite look like a complete joke. Like it wasn't even on.

    Soon we'll have FF5's. Large LED lights are so stupid. They are much more practical in medium and small size.
    Last edited by ampdude; 08-02-2020 at 11:49 PM.
    ampdude

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