"X amount of Lumens is all you really need"

DayofReckoning

Enlightened
Joined
May 1, 2018
Messages
573
Location
USA
Just had an experience with my mother that made me think of this common talking point we see, a point in which, in some regards, I sometimes understand and agree with. But other times I'm not so sure. Let me explain.

A few years ago, after observing my mother fiddling with the little coin cell LED light on her keychain, I was hit with a tide of guilt. Here I am, self proclaimed Flashaholic, with tons of "expensive" and bright (not really expensive per say, you guys know how non-flashaholics are, anything other than the plastic Rayovac is "expensive") flashlights, and I'm watching my mom make due with this little keychain light.

Me "Mom, do you like that light?" Mom "Not so much, it isn't very bright at all". Conveyed with those feelings of guilt, I purchased her a Surefire Sidekick. Now, to be fair, this is a bright little light, and it's 300 lumen rating, from what I see, seems reasonably close. "Wow, that is so bright, it's amazing, Thank you Son!, etc, etc".

Fast forward a few years to the other day. My mom has taken on a job of taking care of an elderly man in a not so great part of town in the evenings. This venture of her's requires her to park in a parking garage that is apparently not so well lit, along with a short walk. "Son, this place I go to is pretty dark, I sometimes feel frightned, I love the light you bought me, but I really wish I had something brighter that could light up the parking garage better, I would feel a lot safer if I did".

That's when it hit me. My mom, who has Zero interest in flashlights (on the contrary, she probably thinks we are idiots for how much we spend :)), Zero interest in our hobby, Zero interest in what brand is brighter than another, No bias whatsoever, is sitting here telling me that the 300 lumens I gave her is not adequate. Instantly I think of telling her "but you only need X amount of brightness, do you really NEED those X amount of Lumens mom?" argument. But then I stop to think to myself, "How long can we continue to use this argument"?

For example, remember when everybody use to journey to far away, and potentially dangerouos places with no cell phone? Now at the time, when cell phones were the size of 2 liter's, and wouldn't fit into duffle packs, most would have said "oh come on, you don't NEED a phone to go do those things", yet now, we are at a point where no one would leave without their phone, despite earlier cries that phone weren't needed.

I think we may be at a similar position with flashlights. "60 lumens is all you really need". "200 lumens is all you really need". Notice a pattern here?

Point being, when we have Keychain lights putting out more light than some manufacturer's full sized 2X18650 lights, one has to question how long this myth of "You only NEED X amount of lumens" will continue to be repeated within our hobby, and how long some manufacturer's will be able to hide behind this mythical statement.

With that ramble out of the way, I must find my Mother a brighter light! :D
 
Last edited:

Lumen83

Enlightened
Joined
Sep 21, 2017
Messages
551
Just had an experience with my mother that made me think of this common talking point we see, a point in which, in some regards, I sometimes understand and agree with. But other times I'm not so sure. Let me explain.

A few years ago, after observing my mother fiddling with the little coin cell LED light on her keychain, I was hit with a tide of guilt. Here I am, self proclaimed Flashaholic, with tons of "expensive" and bright (not really expensive per say, you guys know how non-flashaholics are, anything other than the plastic Rayovac is "expensive") flashlights, and I'm watching my mom make due with this little keychain light.

Me "Mom, do you like that light?" Mom "Not so much, it isn't very bright at all". Conveyed with those feelings of guilt, I purchased her a Surefire Sidekick. Now, to be fair, this is a bright little light, and it's 300 lumen rating, from what I see, seems reasonably close. "Wow, that is so bright, it's amazing, Thank you Son!, etc, etc".

Fast forward a few years to the other day. My mom has taken on a job of taking care of an elderly man in a not so great part of town in the evenings. This venture of her's requires her to park in a parking garage that is apparently not so well lit, along with a short walk. "Son, this place I go to is pretty dark, I sometimes feel frightned, I love the light you bought me, but I really wish I had something brighter that could light up the parking garage better, I would feel a lot safer if I did".

That's when it hit me. My mom, who has Zero interest in flashlights (on the contrary, she probably thinks we are idiots for how much we spend :)), Zero interest in our hobby, Zero interest in what brand is brighter than another, No bias whatsoever, is sitting here telling me that the 300 lumens I gave her is not adequate. Instantly I think of telling her "but you only need X amount of brightness, do you really NEED those X amount of Lumens mom?" argument. But then I stop to think to myself, "How long can we continue to use this argument"?

For example, remember when everybody use to journey to far away, and potentially dangerouos places with no cell phone? Now at the time, when cell phones were the size of 2 liter's, and wouldn't fit into duffle packs, most would have said "oh come on, you don't NEED a phone to go do those things", yet now, we are at a point where no one would leave without their phone, despite earlier cries that phone weren't needed.

I think we may be at a similar position with flashlights. "60 lumens is all you really need". "200 lumens is all you really need". Notice a pattern here?

Point being, when we have Keychain lights putting out more light than some manufacturer's full sized 2X18650 lights, one has to question how long this myth of "You only NEED X amount of lumens" will continue to be repeated within our hobby, and how long some manufacturer's will be able to hide behind this mythical statement.

With that ramble out of the way, I must find my Mother a brighter light! :D


I think the limit is completely related to the actual application. I would say, however, that a 100 lumen light is way more useful than a 1000 lumen light. Atleast to me. Most of the things I need a light for are indoors and up close. Even in the woods here, you can hardly reach your arm out in any direction without touching a tree or a branch, its so thick. 1000 lumens in any of those situations is way too bright for me.
 

DayofReckoning

Enlightened
Joined
May 1, 2018
Messages
573
Location
USA
I think sometimes it's a case of making due with a certain amount, and concluding that "it's enough", only to come to the realization that, after having more, that "enough" maybe really wasn't enough, and you were just making due. Of course, this is dependant on the situation at hand. Yes, 100 lumens can be more useful than 1000 lumens, depending. Personally, I'd rather have a light that is capable of both, than have something that can't. I can remember a time when 145hp car felt like "enough" to climb my local summit, now one can barely keep up with traffic with that.

The slogan "X amount of lumens is all that you need" can be heavily used by some users, predominantly of a few key select brands of lights, which products utilize old, outdated technology that falls far behind what the market has available, and that this slogan used can be a cop out of sorts, to find a way to justify the totally lackluster output.

It doesn't have to be by any brand loyalist flashaholic though, as even individuals with no stake or bias in flashlights might feel their 300 lumen output is more than adequate, only to come to the realization later on that it's not. My mother is an example of this, hence why I made this post.
 

richbuff

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 21, 2014
Messages
2,264
Location
Prescott Az
The truth is that if the person is a real flashoholic, one lumen is too many, and 100,000 is not enough.
 

carrot

Flashaholic
Joined
Dec 6, 2005
Messages
9,240
Location
New York City
I think this is a really interesting idea because lumens and their utility are incredibly relative.

I spent last year refurbishing my grandparents' old place. In all of the single-lamp fixtures were just 30W incandescent bulbs. I replaced them with ~10W LED bulbs that are rated equivalent to 60W. I don't think they ever thought twice about how dim it was in there.

Similarly, what we can do with flashlights has changed as technology has marched on. To deal with (comparatively) very little lumens we treasured the most our lights that had deep and wide reflectors because concentrating the beam made the most of the lumens, and you would have to sweep the hotspot over an area to see it all. As lights have gotten brighter, they have gotten smaller and less throwy. My D4v2 can put about as much lux downrange as the "throwy" Surefire A2 but it also puts out 4000 lumens (versus 50 lumens) and is even floodier than the "wall of light" L2/L4 we used to carry. There is no need to sweep the D4v2 to see into every dark crevice. It is of course, also half the size, or smaller with an 18350.

I don't know many people who would be willing to carry a 1.25" (31.75mm) bezel light today, but many of us did when 65 lumens was the best you could get. Most commonly EDC'd lights now are 23mm or 25.4mm (1") at their widest, and many are smaller than that (who else carries a Rovyvon or i1R on their keys?) The "modernized" 6PX/G2X easily out-throws most common EDC lights of today, despite being 320 or 600 lumens.

Also, there is ambient lighting. Now with LEDs (and even CCFLs) which are many more times efficient than an incandescent, there is more light pollution, at least in urban areas. There are LEDs in just about everything and they are all lit or blinking just about all the time. Stores used to turn off their lights, and with LEDs many no longer see the need. After all, they won't burn out, and they use a fraction of the power.

More light pollution means you need more light to see into the darkness that remains. 60, no, 300 lumens no longer means what it used to in urban areas. Out in the real darkness (the woods, etc) my old Tikka with four 5mm LEDs is still plenty. But rarely is it as useful around the home.

Finally, there is ANSI FL1 rating inflation. Just about every light claims max lumens, but fails to mention that after a few minutes they are barely half that.
 

pilo7448

Enlightened
Joined
Jun 7, 2019
Messages
403
We all perceive light differently I'm sure, just like people see tints differently. (colors if you will) and of corse the situation in which your using the light varies, if your in a low light environment for a time then yes 500 lumens is probably adequate, in my job I'm looking into dark spaces in rooms that are very well lit in the middle of the day, 10 lumens just doesn't cut it.

Sent from my SM-N976U using Tapatalk
 

bykfixer

Flashaholic
Joined
Aug 9, 2015
Messages
20,464
Location
Dust in the Wind
The light pollution can cause all kinds of shadows, which in turn causes one to think it is actually darker than it is yet requires more lighting to appear to light up said shadows.

On a cloudy night I can find a dropped object in my yard without a flashlight, but standing under a tree and hearing something rustling about can be pretty scary. If it were truely dark I could probably adapt to starlight and see at least the movement of the kitty cat rustling in the leaves but because of light pollution my retinas aren't able to adjust, especially as my eyes age.

It's same in a parking garage or alleyway. I'd say the width of the beam would also help peace of mind. Early LED lights tended to have bright centers and some spill where todays lights have tons of spill to go along with the extra forward beam. It's those times I prefer a cool beam because it squashes the colors from light pollution.

Something simple like a 2 cell Maglite puts out a huge beam compared to an LED light from ten years ago. Be it a C or D size. Plus the substantial size creates a sense of confidence if the fear of being attacked is present. Something like a Streamlight Stinger is similar to a 3c Maglite and puts out massive amounts of light.

For smaller, pocket sized lights a lot more lumens may be needed to make up for the smaller reflector. Perhaps an Elzetta Bones, one of the newer Malkoff lights or something along those lines that puts out a sustained amount of light instead of 1000 then settling down to 600-ish and getting all warm in the process.

I like lights that start on low like my cars headlights. Something that is bright enough to use the majority of the time but then the press of a button puts it on high beam mode. The 320 lumen G2x Pro was amazing in that the 15-ish lumen low and the 320 lumen high put out way more light than the numbers would suggest. With all of the flashlights I own the yellow body one is my favorite for night time uses.
 

thermal guy

Flashaholic
Joined
Jan 28, 2007
Messages
10,001
Location
ny
What lumens a person needs depends on what is availability at the time. 10-12 years ago 60-80 lumens was basically what was available and we all had them and you know what they worked dam good for us. Now you can get 5-10 thousand lumens in the same package so we use that.I find it's more of what is available then what we use is the case. All that sounded much better in my head. Not sure if it makes sense now that I read it😁
 

LeanBurn

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 3, 2010
Messages
1,355
Location
Alberta
I followed just the opposite pattern. After realizing I couldn't sustain the use of my Maglite 2D, my first LED light was 170L. As of last year my last LED is 7L...and it's my most used light!
 

DayofReckoning

Enlightened
Joined
May 1, 2018
Messages
573
Location
USA
What's it called when we reach the Archi peak, then start a decline back down:) I'll have to think about it.
 

Lynx_Arc

Flashaholic
Joined
Oct 1, 2004
Messages
11,212
Location
Tulsa,OK
I've found that it is enough lumens to last long enough with more than enough for a short time in case that isn't always enough.
 
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