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Thread: Disaster on top of disaster preparedness

  1. #1

    Default Disaster on top of disaster preparedness

    I know we have had disaster preparedness threads in the past, but I wanted to focus on how we deal with multiple disasters at once since there are unfortunately so many cases of this currently. In California, we just got through a record heatwave, statewide rolling blackouts, record sized wildfires, and still can't be indoors in most places due to corona virus restrictions. I went to the beach (LA Jolla) over the weekend to escape the heat to find the water filled with sharks. I counted 7 sharks while I was swimming and apparently, there was a large hammerhead shark knocking people out of kayaks this last weekend at the same beach. In the Gulf of Mexico, we may for the first time have two hurricanes to deal with at the same time.

    That said, we can discuss needed supplies and the minimum duration you should plan for having food and water to get you through it (48-72 hours doesn't cut it anymore), OPSEC for keeping your family, home, and supplies secured in an era where everyone posts all of their personal information online, when to bug in versus bug out, bug out bags, and planning. Mike Tyson once said, "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." General Patton said, "Plans are worthless, but planning is everything". We are living in unique times with disaster piled upon disaster. How do you prepare for it?

  2. #2
    Administrator Kestrel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disaster on top of disaster preparedness

    Sienna minivan w/ a full tank of gas (nearly 600 miles of highway range); connected to a battery tender in the garage.

    Only three seats remain in the vehicle; instead there is a cot, sleeping bag, laptop computer, one months' supply of food, considerable water tankage, a full set of camping gear, and a spare set of hiking boots. One or two flashlights.

    Two stoves (one w/ multiple independent burners) with multiple fuel options via adapters - propane, isobutane (lindal valve), butane;
    Camping stove test (for car camping)
    'Breakfast nook' for car camping

    Spare AGM (deep cycle) battery with isolation switch, 1100W inverter (operating the included coffee pot)
    Best technique to keep a second car battery charged onboard ?

    With only the briefest time to fill water jugs and gather extra clothing, it has the ability to provide extended support for a number of unexpected situations.
    Last edited by Kestrel; 08-22-2020 at 12:36 PM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Disaster on top of disaster preparedness

    I think I'd want to bug in as long as possible, but if there's a fire or a lot of troublemakers around, I'd probably caravan with my family to a family plot of land out of state. We have a well and a generator to run it in case we lose city water. We have a water tower for water storage. We have some plants and trees growing food. We can hunt and fish for more if need be (after our regular food supply runs out) I have plenty of water filters for purifying water (Katadyn Pocket, Lifestraw Mission, Sawyer Squeeze and mini, MSR Trail shot, etc.). Have plenty of stoves for cooking food (Biolite stove, Biolite Basecamp stove; MSR Whisperlite, Whisperlite International, Pocket Rocket, Pocket Rocket 2, Primus Multi fuel stove and propane adapter (will run on almost any liquid or pressurized fuel), Vargo Triad XE alcohol stove, Vargo titanium wood burning stove, Sierra Zip stove, etc.). Have plenty of charcoal, wood, and wood pellets to run the cheaper fueled stoves for long term use. I'm not going to list off my flashlights as it would take too long. For safety, I have 21 years of martial arts training and my brother in law was a cop. However, I have medical conditions that require me to take a pill each day to live and I can't eat most foods due to celiac disease. My dad and brother have diabetes among other things so just bugging out doesn't make sense for us other than as a last resort. You can escape a bad situation, but it's hard to escape health problems. One of the last things I said to a black belt student before the school closed was "You know you're an adult when you start falling apart and you realize that the world is too."

    If things got bad, we'd post shifts for security, grow crops for food, get through at least a few months before considering leaving, I'd teach martial arts to everyone on the property and maybe train the neighbors in exchange for supplies. I'd look into forming a network of friends and neighbors to trade skills and supplies with. If that all failed, we'd bug out for our property and live off the land.

  4. #4
    Flashaholic* orbital's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disaster on top of disaster preparedness

    +

    Sharks swimming just offshore being a natural disaster-----
    is about the same as seeing bears while camping.

    somewhat kidding h.o.f, I do get your point

  5. #5

    Default Re: Disaster on top of disaster preparedness

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked on Fenix View Post
    ... ... ... .... We are living in unique times with disaster piled upon disaster. How do you prepare for it?
    Throughout history, the surface of the earth has been hostile, and people have been evil, and life has been tragic. Not all the time, not in all places all the time, and not everyone all the time. Just sometimes, some places, and some people. For hundreds and thousands of years, philosophers have asked “Why?”.
    2000 years ago, some very inspired people wrote down the answers. On earth, in this temporary life, with multiple disasters, with all kinds of peril threatening and menacing, I gird my loins with my iron rod of fire, follow the teachings of the inspired writers, and await the promised land.
    Last edited by richbuff; 08-22-2020 at 08:50 PM.
    It could be worse. Common dangerous pet animals don’t have antlers.

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    Default Re: Disaster on top of disaster preparedness

    I'm not as ready at a moment's notice as Kestrel's setup by any means, but the Mrs. and I had something of a dry run for this a few years ago. Our daughter was living near Tampa, Florida and a major storm was projected to make landfall. Her and her boyfriend had no intention of leaving. I have a 4wd 4 door 2007 Tundra with a cap that was loaded within about three hours with everything we would have needed to get to them and get out. 50 gallons of fuel, food, water, tools, shovels, chainsaws, comealong and towchain to clear obstacles if needed, sleeping gear, clothing, inverter and small generator. Plus our two dogs. Thankfully, the storm just brushed the coast but it was a great dry run. I think 3-6 months of supplies at home is a minimum you should strive for in today's climate.
    Last edited by scout24; 08-23-2020 at 05:11 AM.
    The TK20. Yes, it still rocks- WoodsWalker

  7. #7

    Default Re: Disaster on top of disaster preparedness

    I'm wondering, do we have any members in the path of the double hurricanes about to hit in the Gulf of Mexico area or in northern California that has the San Fransisco Bay area circled by three large wildfires (they are expecting lightning to possibly start more fires soon)? I'm hoping they are prepared and have an exit strategy.

  8. #8
    Flashaholic* RetroTechie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disaster on top of disaster preparedness

    It doesn't matter if there's one disaster or multiple ones overlapping. It all comes down to making sure the basics are there: WATER, food, protection from the elements (clothes, shelter, heating?, staying dry to avoid hypothermia, sunscreen), and staying healthy (avoiding risky water/food choices, 1st aid kit / medications you may need, vitamins etc). And look ahead to determine what's needed to keep those basics available.

    Having the right gear is important. This need not be expensive (or take up much space). Knowing what you need and how to use it, is equally important.
    And of course there's the mental aspect: stay positive, don't panic, don't worry too much about things that are out of your control, have a laugh every now & then. Getting through things is as much a state of mind as it is about equipment.
    Ultimately we all bite the dust... Survivors just cheat death a few more times.

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    Flashaholic* turbodog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disaster on top of disaster preparedness

    After living through Katrina I will say 3 things:
    gasoline
    water
    toilet paper

    You already have enough of everything else you need. Neighbors will leave. You can eat their food.

    In this heat, a small fan is almost a necessity. Modern houses are not setup to be very livable w/o functioning HVAC. If we lacked a fan I would probably spend most of the time outdoors under the trees, maybe under an ez-up.

    We lived through Katrina. Dealt with power outages that lasted a month give or take. Gasoline...and lots of it. Full tanks in everything you own. Siphon tubes to salvage it from other vehicles, lawn mowers (mine held 11 gallons!), etc. Good sealed gas jugs that don't leak and are airtight.

    Hurricane in the gulf always affects gas production.
    Last edited by turbodog; 08-24-2020 at 01:33 PM.
    This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time.
    Be prepared for the truth.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Disaster on top of disaster preparedness

    Let's remember the rule of 3's when in a survival situation. You can last 3 weeks without food, 3 days without water, 3 hours without warmth/shelter, 3 minutes without oxygen, and 3 seconds without common sense (how long it takes for one bad decision to lead to your death). You can stay out of trouble most of the time if you never lose that last one.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Disaster on top of disaster preparedness

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked on Fenix View Post
    Let's remember the rule of 3's when in a survival situation....
    ... 3 months without hope, which is the one most often omitted.
    Last edited by archimedes; 08-24-2020 at 01:34 PM.
    ... is the archimedes peak

  12. #12

    Default Re: Disaster on top of disaster preparedness

    We still have most of our corona stash of non perishables, toilet paper and other supplies. We've depleted most of our freezer stock from back when fresh meats were getting hoarded and filled spaces with frozen bottles of water. Same with the refigerator. The larger the container the longer said vessel stays cold.

    Potential Laura track:

    Last edited by bykfixer; 08-27-2020 at 04:19 PM.
    John 3:16

  13. #13

    Default Re: Disaster on top of disaster preparedness

    Hurricane Laura is currently a Category 4 hurricane at 150 mph (7 mph short of a Category 5). Don't stick around if you're in it's path.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Disaster on top of disaster preparedness

    Looked like the "unsurvivable 20 foot surge" ended up around 9'? Still waiting to see the scope of damage beyond some windows broken out of tall buildings. Yes, glass isn't the strongest thing ever invented.
    GOOD TINT!

  15. #15

    Default Re: Disaster on top of disaster preparedness

    In news about the California fires, because of all the prisoners being released due to trying to limit spread of corona virus in the prisons, they are down about 25% for prisoner firefighters available to fight these fires this year. The governor had to request help from across the country, Canada, and Australia to bring in more firefighters. Also, someone appears to be robbing the firefighters and cleaning out their bank accounts, possibly some of the prisoners that were released early. Here's a video about the looting:https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8s1vv7Jq1cl
    Last edited by Hooked on Fenix; 08-27-2020 at 08:20 AM.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Disaster on top of disaster preparedness

    A chemical plant fire has started in the aftermath of Hurricane Laura. It's releasing poisonous chlorine gas into the air around Lake Charles, Louisiana. People are being told to stay indoors and shelter in place. First a worldwide pandemic, then food and supply shortages, then Hurricane Marco, then a record 150 mph Hurricane Laura, now a chemical fire making it so you can't breath the air. I'm afraid to ask what's next.

  17. #17
    Administrator Kestrel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disaster on top of disaster preparedness

    Don't really know how a preparedness thread turned into a disaster thread, but that's not really the intent of this - unless members in the areas of interest post about their specific preps for them.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Disaster on top of disaster preparedness

    Quote Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
    Don't really know how a preparedness thread turned into a disaster thread, but that's not really the intent of this - unless members in the areas of interest post about their specific preps for them.
    i have batteries flashlights beans and rice and a solar radio
    Last edited by Kestrel; 08-27-2020 at 05:13 PM. Reason: repaired quote
    LED's have gotten too bright in our stuff. Many nights I'm awakened by my modem lights blinking.had help with my sig thank you for your help.

  19. #19
    Flashaholic* orbital's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disaster on top of disaster preparedness

    +

    People most fear the unknown or what they don't understand, so applied knowledge is your best tool.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Disaster on top of disaster preparedness

    Quote Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
    Don't really know how a preparedness thread turned into a disaster thread, but that's not really the intent of this - unless members in the areas of interest post about their specific preps for them.
    The thread is about disaster on top of disaster preparedness. This touches on disasters and preparedness for those disasters. I didn't want to limit the thread to only the wildfires in California and the hurricanes affecting Louisiana and Texas. They were examples of disaster on disaster. With a single disaster, you have an idea of what to plan for. Multiple disasters require more extensive resources, skills, and backup plans to get through it. This thread will likely have a mix of topics on planning, supply lists, and news or examples of disasters so we have an idea of what we would have to prepare for. We may learn what may work for a single event is insufficient for multiple sequential events. Things might happen that we thought were highly unlikely or impossible that we thought we'd never have to prepare for. That is the point of this thread, to get us thinking about preparedness, work on getting prepared, and to ask ourselves if something else goes wrong, "What can I do now?"

  21. #21
    Administrator Kestrel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disaster on top of disaster preparedness

    OK no worries, I understand; I admit to misconstruing your thread topic - thx for the clarification.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Disaster on top of disaster preparedness

    Disaster upon disaster prep such as cat 4 hurricane floods your street, a half mile away a chemical plants catches fire and emits toxins as you paddle to safety then you discover you forgot to put the plug in the boat, then your wife jumps over board to install the plug thinking the water was deeper and breaks her leg. You suddenly realize you are in a Louisianna swamp and there are gators and snakes while you put the plug in the boat.

    Two ways to prep for that.
    1) Don't live in a flood plain.
    2) Don't live near a toxic chemical plant.

    But seriously, I live in a city with an interstate running through it on one side and a rail road on the other. Dangerous chemicals go by my house daily. One part of town is one way in/out. If a crash occured and dangerous fumes plummeted their way they have one way out. If the danger is between them and the outlet they are screwed.

    Before that part of town was built a train crashed and did just that. Many of those folks would have been sickened or killed. Any city with an interstate or rail road main line running through it should have a disaster plan in place. My city does not. So those of us who know what travels up and down the interstate or rails do.

    Another part of town is surrounded by water on 3 sides. Three weeks ago two of the ways out were flooded when an area upstream got 9" of rain in an hour. The third was a bridge where repairs had just been completed. Had it occured a month before those folks would have been trapped and no way for ambulances to get to them if an emergency occured. Again my city has no plan in place. Also again some in the know are aware of a dirt road that leads to a water tower and it has a second way to it that doesn't flood so anybody aware of that road can flee to safety upstream.

    In the event you happen to live near places with dangers from man made disasters or Mother Nature's fury, learn the escape routes. Especially the ones most don't know about.
    John 3:16

  23. #23

    Default Re: Disaster on top of disaster preparedness

    Quote Originally Posted by bykfixer View Post
    Disaster upon disaster prep such as cat 4 hurricane floods your street, a half mile away a chemical plants catches fire and emits toxins as you paddle to safety then you discover you forgot to put the plug in the boat, then your wife jumps over board to install the plug thinking the water was deeper and breaks her leg. You suddenly realize you are in a Louisianna swamp and there are gators and snakes while you put the plug in the boat.
    Remember that if you make it to safety, you likely have no indoor dining and few bathrooms available at restaurants or gas stations. Sanitation and hypothermia become real problems in a mass evacuation. Expect food and supply shortages to last as the system is already strained by the corona virus. Good luck getting a place to sleep for the night as many hotels are closed or housing corona virus patients exclusively. I'm sure ball parks and schools will be used as shelters but spread out victims to prevent them from getting sick, limiting occupancy. Even if there is room available, would you want to risk your family getting sick around so many people? Is it safe to sleep wearing a mask or does it deprive you of oxygen over time? What if you didn't have masks anymore and weren't allowed in buildings? Odds are, you'll be sleeping outdoors or in a rental car. Better watch out for looters and sleep with one eye open.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Disaster on top of disaster preparedness

    Looks like California is decommissioning 4 natural gas power plants by the end of this year amounting to about 2500 megawatts of power. These are plants that use sea water for cooling which is now banned. Looks like we better get used to rolling blackouts.

    The wildfires on the west coast have burned over 3.3 million acres this year. It's unsafe to breathe the air in some places. Some people had to be evacuated by helicopter. Some burned alive in their cars trying to escape. They didn't have enough time to evacuate.

    Hurricane Sally is now a Category 2 hurricane heading for land and there are more potential storms developing next.

    With these disasters coming so frequently and killing people fleeing from them, I thought it would be good to discuss evacuation plans. A proper evacuation plan should not just be your town's plan that everyone follows and likely causes a bottleneck leaving you stranded in traffic with danger coming. You need a safe meeting place (a friend or family member's house out of the danger area) that your loved ones know to meet at if the SHTF. This location should be out of the danger zone, but close enough to reach quickly by any means available. For a large scale disaster, this might require leaving ahead of everyone else to avoid traffic or roadblocks. You should plan for alternative transportation to get through or around places a car can't get through. This includes a motorcycle, boat, bike, horse, electric scooter, etc.. It helps to have two way radios to communicate with your group in case you get split up. Cell phone service is unreliable during a disaster as the system goes down or is overloaded by emergency calls. Don't plan on a hotel for your meeting place. In my experience with wildfires, the first thing the American Red Cross does when they come to help in a disaster area is reserve all the good hotel rooms (if I remember right, they preferred the Holiday Inn). You also want to be surrounded by people you can trust, not a bunch of desperate people freaking out. If possible, it's advantageous to have more than one meeting place in case your first choice is closer to the disaster. An r.v. or camper helps but isn't a substitute for a meeting place. If your r.v. gets stranded or you are robbed, you want a backup place to go that won't be snatched from under you. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Once you get to your meeting place, wait for everyone to arrive and decide what's next. Resources may be limited, you may overstay your welcome after awhile, or the disaster may have followed you there. In any case, you may have to have a second meeting place to ride out the disaster for a longer duration or a bug out location (preferably with plenty of supplies and off grid modern conveniences including solar power and running water).

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    Default Re: Disaster on top of disaster preparedness

    HoF- Your post and the points made drive home the need for paper maps. You may have a route to a point in your head but not be prepared for detours, etc.
    The TK20. Yes, it still rocks- WoodsWalker

  26. #26
    Flashaholic* turbodog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disaster on top of disaster preparedness

    During all serious disasters I have seen the roads are barely navigable. Would not dream about fleeing in an RV. Flat tires were VERY commonplace also due to nails. Good realistic evac plan should include tire plug kit and air compressor. Note: plugging a modern radial tire is HARD due to steel cords and thickness of tire if you are not experienced. During Katrina a guy parked by the side of the road plugging tires... there was a LONG line of people. It was just some guy... not a tire shop. Some dude with a jack, generator, compressor, and TONS of rubber plugs.
    This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time.
    Be prepared for the truth.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Disaster on top of disaster preparedness

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked on Fenix View Post
    I'm afraid to ask what's next.
    On my agenda the Korean Flamethrower Squirrels are up next. Remember: If you see one in the road drive AROUND it!

  28. #28
    *Flashaholic* Poppy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disaster on top of disaster preparedness

    Quote Originally Posted by scout24 View Post
    HoF- Your post and the points made drive home the need for paper maps. You may have a route to a point in your head but not be prepared for detours, etc.
    Wow isn't that true!
    Once on the way North to NJ from Florida I ran into a huge traffic jam.. one after another. I decided to venture off following my GPS in my phone. At times I lost cell connection, and thought... holy crap... I don't really know where I am!

    Years ago, I followed a map, and really paid attention to the topography of the area, and made mental notes of landmarks as I traveled, and especially when I made turns. I would even look back, after I made a turn, so that it would look familiar on my return trip. I could go anywhere ONCE, and never need a map again. Now... the idiot in the box, tells the idiot behind the wheel when to turn. I've become more dependent on that box, and that is a bad thing.

    I do have maps in the car, but not as many as I had in the past. I used to carry street maps broken down by county. I don't think they are in the car anymore. They should be.
    My Grand Kids call me Poppy

  29. #29
    *Flashaholic* thermal guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disaster on top of disaster preparedness

    I’m out in the country miles and miles away from any large body of water. We don’t get tornadoes, floods,any of that crap. Just dam cold winters. But Having kids I always keep a mental reminder that crap can happen and prepare for what might.
    If i had one day left to live i would want to be at my workplace.Because every day is like a frickin eternity.

  30. #30
    *Flashaholic* idleprocess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disaster on top of disaster preparedness

    Quote Originally Posted by scout24 View Post
    HoF- Your post and the points made drive home the need for paper maps. You may have a route to a point in your head but not be prepared for detours, etc.
    The USGS website for downloading topographic maps has vastly improved since last time I looked at it. Topographic aren't as easy to use for navigating a car as a typical road map, but they're more versatile in the sense that they show terrain and features useful for navigation in an unstructured environment. I do suggest filtering for recent years (i.e. 2000-2020), otherwise zoom into the area of interest, click on a reference point to see what maps are available, and download the year and format of your choice - GeoPDF is the richest, but looks to require some tinkering to print as shown.
    I apologize that this letter is so long; I did not have time to write a short letter

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