best battery for survival

i mean like easy to find batterys that have great runtime

Primary, L91/L92 (Energizer Ultimate Lithium)
Secondary, Eneloop (or by any other wrapper from FDK Japan)
At least in AA/AAA.

Primary CR123A, I'll say Surefire first, then Energizer.
Secondary Li-ion, Keeppower would be top today, but AW are still great

chillinn said:

Primary, L91/L92 (Energizer Ultimate Lithium)
Secondary, Eneloop (or by any other wrapper from FDK Japan)
At least in AA/AAA.

Primary CR123A, I'll say Surefire first, then Energizer.
Secondary Li-ion, Keeppower would be top today, but AW are still great

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cool ty im going to get a few of each

CR123A of any quality brand. I have examples that are 20 years old with no leaking or other issues, and power up a light like new. Good storage climate and humidity conditions should always be maintained for any battery.

AA. Has option of energizer lithium for 20 year shelf life and cold weather performance, lithium ion for high power, eneloop for rechargeable up to 2100 charges, there are USB charging cells, and alkaline and carbon zinc for availability.

Second best would be the cold weather performance USB charging 18650 (charge with 12 volt USB outlet in car or by solar panel).

I wouldn't trust anything other than CR123A's for the best performance. Lithium AA's have a different battery chemistry that is okay, but not as good, and not generally made with as much attention to detail as CR123A's. Rechargeable batteries should not even be considered for this role.

ampdude said:

Rechargeable batteries should not even be considered for this role.

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That depends what he means by best for survival. Yes, a CR123A primary might have a 20 year shelf life, but you only get to use it once. A 18650 lithium-ion rechargeable might only last 10 years, but you get to use it hundreds of times. Plus, even if you only use it once, it will last far longer than a CR123A.

So, I'd say get some quality 18650 rechargeable lithium-ion cells (Samsung 30Q, Sony VTC6, Panasonic GA), and replace them every 5 years just to be sure. Even if you only get to use them once, they'll still last a lot longer than primary cells. And if you can recharge them somehow in the apocalypse, you're golden.

If you know the apocalypse is going to last 20 years, and you won't need any batteries until year 19 (perhaps it's sunny day&night for the first 19 years), then get some CR123A's and replace them every 5 years.

ampdude said:

Rechargeable batteries should not even be considered for this role.

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What happens if... a friend... already considered them for this role? Is it ok to use them as paper weights? Just asking for a friend.

raggie33 said:

i mean like easy to find batterys that have great runtime

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AA alkaline. They have excellent runtimes and are by far the easiest to get. They'll kill your lights sometimes. But if you checked them daily they would be the very definition of your criteria of "Easy to get with great runtime".

However, like I said, they can kill a light dead. Primary lithiums are the only game in town for true "survival" mode. You don't buy them after you are in survival mode. You stock up periodically. They have great shelf life and don't leak.

I keep a small "emergency" headlamp in by backcountry backpack. It's filled with a fresh Li primary before leaving the house. If somehow I forget to change the battery, it will still work after 10 years.

WalkIntoTheLight said:

That depends what he means by best for survival. Yes, a CR123A primary might have a 20 year shelf life, but you only get to use it once. A 18650 lithium-ion rechargeable might only last 10 years, but you get to use it hundreds of times. Plus, even if you only use it once, it will last far longer than a CR123A.

So, I'd say get some quality 18650 rechargeable lithium-ion cells (Samsung 30Q, Sony VTC6, Panasonic GA), and replace them every 5 years just to be sure. Even if you only get to use them once, they'll still last a lot longer than primary cells. And if you can recharge them somehow in the apocalypse, you're golden.

If you know the apocalypse is going to last 20 years, and you won't need any batteries until year 19 (perhaps it's sunny day&night for the first 19 years), then get some CR123A's and replace them every 5 years.

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1. An 18650 rechargeable battery is a lot larger battery than a CR123A. So yea, it will have a lot more juice while the battery is young. CR123A batteries are also lighter per volume because of chemistry and electronics in the protected cells.

2. The chemistry of a lithium ion battery along with the electronics on protected cells are not as reliable, and will not put up with the extreme weather usage (hot/cold/humid) or storage conditions (hot/cold/humid) a CR123A will.

3. You can't buy 72 packs of 18650's. Well you can do something like that if you buy bulk, but why would you want to for a battery with a several year service life unless you were reselling them? Plus it would get real expensive and why would you want that many batteries that are gonna have half their capacity, or be dead in 5 years?

Replacing CR123A stock every five years is an okay idea. but you really don't need to if they're stored under normal room temperature conditions. I have cells that are twenty years old.

chillinn said:

What happens if... a friend... already considered them for this role? Is it ok to use them as paper weights? Just asking for a friend.

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Ha! I'm not going to say that rechargeable batteries can't be used for survival, but it complicates things a lot. Especially if you can't measure voltage, or don't have a good charger or power source, or have to drain your batteries low often. Draining NIMH and Lithium Ion batteries low is very bad for them, especially if they stay in this state for awhile, then you essentially have just that, paperweights. Nicads on the other hand... they seem to be able to go through hell regarding charging conditions and still work. I have a pair of nicads in a 21+ year old shaver that are still going. They seem to do okay in cold as well, with the rechargeable Streamlights, Magchargers, and other lights I've used them in. Unfortunately Nicads are toxic to the environment. And their capacity isn't that great compared to NIMH and Li-Ion.

If you are going to "survive" long you have to decide how you are going to cope and overall what you will need and have in possession.
There are different levels of survival from temporary power outages like storm damage from ice and trees falling on power lines that last from a few days to perhaps a month or so with limited access to power and stores restocking after a few weeks slowly back to normal.
If you know you will have some access to power either wall sockets or car electrical systems then rechargeables can make a lot of sense, economic sense as it costs money for disposable batteries and in an outage your normal usage can spike and unless you stock up in advance or the outage is short you can end up with an unexpected expense and hassle to find batteries at normal instead of bargain prices often only finding batteries at stores that have more markup than the discount places.
In my area we are so far inland our main concern is ice storms and tornadoes and power outages in those are rarely so bad that you can't find a way to recharge batteries either a car charger setup or find someone who has power and camp out there for half a day to recharge things. If cell towers are still operating most of us have to constantly recharge a phone somehow and without a power bank the same sources of power to charge phones can be used to charge other batteries if we have proper chargers for them already.
AAs are not very useful for recharging phones but 18650s in power banks or chargers that can act as one using bare cells can suffice.
I am an advocate of multiplicity for the purpose of backup and emergencies and used to be AAs and AAAs were my primary power source but even with LSD nimh extending that a dozen more years my venture into 18650 lithium ion power has pushed them forward to my primary source with AA/AAAs now my backup source. 18650s have so much more power to them in use a high capacity 18650 can match 3-4 AAs and it is easy to carry 3-4 of them with you on low modes in lights you can last a month or so which around here is plenty of time to out wait a disaster.
I think the issue is if a disaster lasts longer than weeks into months and months it is likely you may be unable to get any batteries at all as when they are found they are scooped up quickly but with various chargers you may be able to find a source of power to replenish a stock of rechargeables often enough to last awhile. A long outage could also tax your finances having you run low on money unexpectedly so what you have when that happens is what you are left with and after you throw away all your primaries as they are depleted you only have rechargeables left hoping to find a source of power. If space is limited 18650 is the most common and more dense energy source there is you can carry more power in a smaller space than AAs. A single 18650 light can last 4 times or greater longer in runtime than a single AA light and some even have power bank functions that can double to put some charge back into a cell phone.

ampdude said:

1. An 18650 rechargeable battery is a lot larger battery than a CR123A. So yea, it will have a lot more juice while the battery is young. CR123A batteries are also lighter per volume because of chemistry and electronics in the protected cells.

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Yes, 18650's are twice the size, but also over twice the capacity, and about 3x the energy. In an emergency, an 18650 will last longer than two CR123a's, and if you can recharge it, you can use it again and again and again.

2. The chemistry of a lithium ion battery along with the electronics on protected cells are not as reliable, and will not put up with the extreme weather usage (hot/cold/humid) or storage conditions (hot/cold/humid) a CR123A will.

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Just use regular flat-top 18650's. They'll store just fine in almost any condition you're likely to store them in, unless you're Yoda and live in a swamp. I doubt CR123a's would fare much better.

If you want to make sure the 18650's last as long as possible, store them at 80% charged. They'll still have more juice than two CR123a's, and you'll probably double their life. Almost zero self-discharge at that level, too.

3. You can't buy 72 packs of 18650's. Well you can do something like that if you buy bulk, but why would you want to for a battery with a several year service life unless you were reselling them? Plus it would get real expensive and why would you want that many batteries that are gonna have half their capacity, or be dead in 5 years?

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You can buy just one 18650, and recharge it 72 times.

Replacing CR123A stock every five years is an okay idea. but you really don't need to if they're stored under normal room temperature conditions. I have cells that are twenty years old.

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It's way cheaper to just buy a few 18650's every 5 years to make sure they're fresh. But they'll last 10-15 years just fine, too. I have old laptop cells, stored at 100% charge for most of their life over 10 years, and they work just fine with about 80% of their original capacity.

If stored properly, I'm sure quality 18650's will last 20 years. I'd still replace them at least every 10 years, and 5 years is better if they're really for an emergency. I wouldn't want to rely on any 20 year old battery for an emergency, regardless of its chemistry.

amazon has some off brand cr123 for like 10 batterys for 8 bucks shiped

raggie33 said:

amazon has some off brand cr123 for like 10 batterys for 8 bucks shiped

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I wouldn't trust ANY off brand battery to perform well, especially in an emergency years later.

We've all heard of this one. Maybe not the best for any emergency situation, but if survival is the criteria...

Yeah, it doesn't really matter what chemistry you go for, as long as you buy good quality name-brand cells.

I'd maybe suggest don't buy alkaleaks, but even they should be okay as long as you replace them every few years. You'll get some leaks even if you don't use them, but they're cheap enough that you can buy dozens and throw a few out when they leak.

WalkIntoTheLight said:

Yes, 18650's are twice the size, but also over twice the capacity, and about 3x the energy. In an emergency, an 18650 will last longer than two CR123a's, and if you can recharge it, you can use it again and again and again.

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18650's are larger in diameter and often longer than two CR123A's. Most 18650's will require a battery sleeve to work most reliably with CR123A's as the CR123A's are generally shorter and are a bit less in diameter so you're susceptible to battery rattle which causes flicker and reliability issues because the springs are less compressed as well. I also wouldn't trust an 18650 in a cold or hot car for very long. If you can keep them dry and room temp all the time, and always have access to a quality charger and electricity then it's not a bad option. But we're talking about survival batteries. And then you need to keep them 95-100% charged all the time to be ready to go which is of course not exactly optimal for long term stash it and forget about it in your go bag.

Just use regular flat-top 18650's. They'll store just fine in almost any condition you're likely to store them in, unless you're Yoda and live in a swamp. I doubt CR123a's would fare much better.

If you want to make sure the 18650's last as long as possible, store them at 80% charged. They'll still have more juice than two CR123a's, and you'll probably double their life. Almost zero self-discharge at that level, too.



You can buy just one 18650, and recharge it 72 times.

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Yes, provided you have the conditions to do so all the time. You can't really trust the PCB's on a lot of these 18650's either for harsh conditions. There's a reason they're not recommended for use in weaponlights either.

It's way cheaper to just buy a few 18650's every 5 years to make sure they're fresh. But they'll last 10-15 years just fine, too. I have old laptop cells, stored at 100% charge for most of their life over 10 years, and they work just fine with about 80% of their original capacity.

If stored properly, I'm sure quality 18650's will last 20 years. I'd still replace them at least every 10 years, and 5 years is better if they're really for an emergency. I wouldn't want to rely on any 20 year old battery for an emergency, regardless of its chemistry.

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I don't know, if you're paying ten bucks a battery and you have to buy 5 that's about half the price of a 72 pack. But I see what you're saying. I would just trust the CR123A's way more than being able to survive off of some 18650's. Lights are pretty efficient nowadays, you can make one or two CR123A's last a long time. And I use mostly incans and I don't even consider it an issue. Buying a few 18650's and calling it good seems like putting all your eggs in one basket when you really shouldn't be doing that for SHTF type situations.

WalkIntoTheLight said:

Yeah, it doesn't really matter what chemistry you go for, as long as you buy good quality name-brand cells.

I'd maybe suggest don't buy alkaleaks, but even they should be okay as long as you replace them every few years. You'll get some leaks even if you don't use them, but they're cheap enough that you can buy dozens and throw a few out when they leak.

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I have plenty of alkaline batteries for general use. I buy them in bulk because they're so cheap and generally work okay in most lights. However I've also seen plenty of new ones leak. Ones that had a lot of time before their supposed expiration. I don't know what condition they were stored in before they got to me, but every single AAA batteries in a bunch of 2AAA Minimag blister packs I bought leaked. It was a lot of them and they had a long time to go. They seem to make the AAA's the cheapest, and AA's almost as cheap. The batteries I generally don't have problems with leaks are C's and D's, but if you let those go for long enough you'll see it there as well. I find most of the time alkalines are okay. The thing I worry about most is them leaking and me not catching it and the alkalines ruining the device they were in.

I really love both you guys, your generosity of spirit and the genuineness of all your posts, but when you fight like this, I can't take it! It's tearing me apart!

Ok, jk, Carry on. Mods, can we do something about ^--this comment? And what happened to :cpfrules: ? Wasn't there an animated smiley with a sign?
Its overcast here, and its going to be a long, dark night. Plz don't ban me for

At Midnight... all the Today's Posts go un-emphasis-ed.