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Thread: Shouldn't this be brighter than the UDR dominator?

  1. #1

    Default Shouldn't this be brighter than the UDR dominator?

    I got a cheap flashlight on Amazon. It has 22xXPL-HI with 6x18650. The UDR Dominator kicks it's butt. I figure you guy's are not surprised. I was. How can that many XPL not be brighter? This is not a troll post. I am very serious. I don't get it. I know it is just a cheap flashlight but I would think that many XPL has to be brighter? Call me stupid I guess. TBH, it was more on par with the E2D Defender! It could not even match a Deadwood. Could someone please explain this to me if they don't mind? Thank you

  2. #2

    Default Re: Shouldn't this be brighter than the UDR dominator?

    Probably a couple of things to consider:

    whatís your perception of brightness? With that many leds, Iím thinking this is a really floody light. So if are comparing this to the UDR at any distance, then the UDR will appear brighter because itís putting light where youíre expecting it to be.

    even with this many LEDs, if youíre only driving them at low power, then itís not going to be bright. This is most likely the case given where this was purchase.
    Who needs to see the light at the end of the tunnel when you have friends on CPF?
    My flashlight videos: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...9TIYcGeuBXa5m0

  3. #3
    *Flashaholic* thermal guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shouldn't this be brighter than the UDR dominator?

    Throw and brightness are two different things. UDR Dominator Has good throw. Your other multi led light probably has a ton of flood so doesnít shine as far. Two different animals.
    If i had one day left to live i would want to be at my workplace.Because every day is like a frickin eternity.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Shouldn't this be brighter than the UDR dominator?

    Are they really XPL-HI or just said to be? Sometimes cheap lights say one thing but do not actually have the stated technology such as actually containing XPG emitters instead of more modern type.

    Next would be circuit efficiency. Cheap parts may create was more resistance. Alluminum and some alloys are wildly inefficient. Check ohm readings.

    Finally, like others said it could be it's a flooder. That and matters too as some allow more efficient light transfer.
    John 3:16

  5. #5

    Default Re: Shouldn't this be brighter than the UDR dominator?

    Thanks guy's. I bet you nailed it. First I was trying to light up the side of a barn over one hundred feet away. Second I bet 6x cheap Chinese 2400mah 18650 are not enough to drive that many XPL-HI to full brightness. Since just one 18350 drives an XPL-HI to about 2600 lumens. Finally, junk electronics, heatsink or total BS. There is a reason this is 50 bucks and the Surefire is over a Grand. I should have used my head about this. This is probably why we do not see high end lights like this I imagine. Thank you

  6. #6

    Default Re: Shouldn't this be brighter than the UDR dominator?

    > Shouldn't this be brighter than the UDR dominator?

    No,

    for your application, you dont need more lumens, and you dont need more LEDs

    You need more LUX, and single LEDs can be focused into a smaller area, making the light reach farther and look "brighter", within the smaller hotspot.


  7. #7

    Default Re: Shouldn't this be brighter than the UDR dominator?

    I know. However this light states that it is 20,000 lumens. I am calling outright BS on that. I bet that light is more like 1000 lumens. Even at 1 meter. Since it compares near likewise to other 1000 lumen lights.

    I was just wondering if there is something like the Dominator or larger with much more output if price is not a consideration?
    We actually have a very good reason for needing these. This is not a toy to us. I got the $50 light out of stupidity.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Shouldn't this be brighter than the UDR dominator?

    Quote Originally Posted by nitebrite View Post
    I know. However this light states that it is 20,000 lumens. I am calling outright BS on that. I bet that light is more like 1000 lumens. Even at 1 meter. Since it compares near likewise to other 1000 lumen lights.

    I was just wondering if there is something like the Dominator or larger with much more output if price is not a consideration?
    We actually have a very good reason for needing these. This is not a toy to us. I got the $50 light out of stupidity.
    Marketing, if it could be called that. They just put the largest numbers that everyone else is putting on their lights. Nothing is enforcing compliance with ANSI or any other regulating body. While I'm not into throwers and keep track of which is the brightest, I have seen the videos made by Matt and his review of some pretty impressive lights. The Budget Light Forums Giga-Thrower looks to be one of those lights that might beat the Dominator in throw.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Shouldn't this be brighter than the UDR dominator?

    Jon Slider,

    Very good and illustrative picture!
    And if we are talking about a thrower the hotspot can be more than 100 times more intense than the spill. This means despite a very bright hotspot the main part of the total lumen output is still in the spill. And the more floody a beam is the larger the hotspot and the smaller is the difference in lux between hotspot and spill. A large hotspot combined with a wide spill, which is not much less intense than the hotspot, costs a lot of lumen.
    Therefore a thrower can throw much further than a flooder despite the flooder has much higher lumen output.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Shouldn't this be brighter than the UDR dominator?

    Quote Originally Posted by nitebrite View Post
    I know. However this light states that it is 20,000 lumens. I am calling outright BS on that. I bet that light is more like 1000 lumens. Even at 1 meter. Since it compares near likewise to other 1000 lumen lights.

    I was just wondering if there is something like the Dominator or larger with much more output if price is not a consideration?
    We actually have a very good reason for needing these. This is not a toy to us. I got the $50 light out of stupidity.
    Similar to the Dominator in what way? Output? Durability? User Interface? Rechargeability? All/Most of the above? What's your use case? I can think of several lights that have more output and throw than the UDR, but it doesn't have a rotary interface or has a self contained rechargeable capability. The UDR is pretty unique in this aspect.
    Who needs to see the light at the end of the tunnel when you have friends on CPF?
    My flashlight videos: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...9TIYcGeuBXa5m0

  11. #11

    Default Re: Shouldn't this be brighter than the UDR dominator?

    Quote Originally Posted by nitebrite View Post
    like the Dominator or larger with much more output
    more output does not mean more throw

    look at candela specs,
    not lumens specs

  12. #12

    Default Re: Shouldn't this be brighter than the UDR dominator?

    No. I just meant to say this $50 light is not 20,000 lumens of Horseradish. I mentioned that little Deadwood and Hanko are much brighter. When they said 20,000 lumens I "expected" it to be brighter than the UDR but I was an idiot. It is the typical Chinese game. Not to say that there are not nice Chinese lights such as Fenix. However, I do see a light on the large E-commerce site that very well may throw further than the UDR. It is $750. It is not a "better" light than the UDR all considered though. I am quitting while I am ahead. You do not go from top of the line lights to this stuff. I have no clue what prompted me to fall for this. I apologize for wasting everyone's time.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Shouldn't this be brighter than the UDR dominator?

    Eh, so you're out 50 bucks, but lesson learned coulda cost a lot more.

    So go ahead and enjoy that $50 light, right?
    John 3:16

  14. #14

    Default Re: Shouldn't this be brighter than the UDR dominator?

    Thereís no wasting anyoneís time here. We chose to respond to your questions. And your question about lights that are like the UDR is a good one because not everyone can afford a $750 light but wants a lot of the qualities it offers.
    Who needs to see the light at the end of the tunnel when you have friends on CPF?
    My flashlight videos: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...9TIYcGeuBXa5m0

  15. #15

    Default Re: Shouldn't this be brighter than the UDR dominator?

    I think you need some of those 9900 mAh 18650's to get 20,000 lumens,

  16. #16

    Default Re: Shouldn't this be brighter than the UDR dominator?

    I do not mean to be a jerk. where do you get a UDR for $750? I will get a backup! Surefire pricing is MAP. Same price everywhere. Sometimes if you know someone they will cut you a small discount and they are risking their Surefire dealership agreement when they do so. Anyways the UDR is about $1400 bucks. Without batteries(CR123A) or a case. All in with tax the thing is close to 2 Grand. Sure, there are actually brighter lights and lights that throw further even. As someone mentioned the batteries and interface, the balance of the device and everything add up to a very unique light. I think maybe you got the $750 number from the light I was mentioning from China that might throw further than the UDR. I don't really care. Some kids hopped up Mustang is faster than a LA Ferrari that does not make it nicer.

    I really appreciate that you folks do not feel that this was a waste of a post. I do not feel that I got ripped off either. I do not waste things. It is still a fine 1500 lumen light and there is certainly a place for that. I will just use it places where I do not need HAIII or whatever. In fact I might use it right now. To wire up some outdoor lighting.I will just tail stand it 25 feet below where I am working. The nice thing, it runs a while because it is not even driving hard.

    Yeah that is the same joke. I see 10,000mah 18650's on there. Same deal. I should have known better. The $750 light may be promising but I am not gambling that much. I paid that much for a light from Rey he built one of a kind for me that perhaps is nicer than any of my Hanko or Barrel's. Rey called me from China. This thing who knows what you are getting.

    Thank you guy's. I really appreciate how great you all are.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Shouldn't this be brighter than the UDR dominator?

    If you want a super light for not a lot look in the Vihn section here. That guy can build you a really nice light.

    https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...0-Vinhnguyen54
    A link to his child forum.
    Last edited by bykfixer; 09-09-2020 at 02:14 AM.
    John 3:16

  18. #18

    Default Re: Shouldn't this be brighter than the UDR dominator?

    >>>Edit: I misread the specs on the following item. The UDR would crush it. In fact the HL-4 would easily best it. Save your time and do not bother reading what follows.


    I may actually be onto something. I purchased that showerhead from the website owned by the richest man in the world. I don't usually do this to him but he will gladly trade me. Even swap. WoWtac A5. Made by Thrunite. Correct me if I am wrong. It seems very interesting. Apparently it actually does output about 3600 lumens from one emitter(XHP-70.2), it has good spill and throw comparable to the UDR(even though they state 700ish Meters) Here is the kicker, it fits in cargo pants. It is 1x26650. It has HAIII. IPX67. Even if it is only 2000LM and throws 500M for the size it is okay. It is a better light than the showerhead. The showerhead cannot pull enough amps to drive that many emitters. Plus I think we all prefer a single emitter. I will compare it to the UDR and the Streamlight HL-4. I expect it to be closer to the HL-4 but I hope I am surprised. Chinese lights are like a box of chocolates. Although I figure this might be a better bet of my 50 bucks.
    Last edited by nitebrite; 09-11-2020 at 07:38 AM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Shouldn't this be brighter than the UDR dominator?

    Quote Originally Posted by nitebrite View Post
    WoWtac A5. ... Even if it ... only ... throws 500M
    specs say it throws 234 meters
    and has a very floody beam of 4 candela per lumen

    Wowtac A5 Flashlight Review


    Wowtac A5
    throw 234 meters (2.5 USA football fields)
    Candela 13,750
    Candela per Lumen 4 (Floody wall of light, for close wide illumination)

    HL4
    throw 346 meters (3.8 USA football fields)
    Candela 30,000
    Candela per Lumen 14 (balance of spot and spill)

    UDR
    throw 903 meters (9.8 USA football fields)
    Candela 200,000
    Candela per Lumen 83 (narrow spot beam for throwy applications)

    "The candela per lumen (cd/lm) ratio can be used to determine if a flashlight has a spot or flood type beam. Well-focused spot beams can be over 100 cd/lm, tactical flashlights are typically between 20-100 cd/lm, and work lights are less than 10 cd/lm."
    Last edited by jon_slider; 09-11-2020 at 12:06 PM.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Shouldn't this be brighter than the UDR dominator?

    Yeah, like I said I had originally misread the specs. Don't even bother reading my rubbish. I could have deleted it but I left it for historical purposes

    It is honestly hard to beat the UDR. That is why I carry one on thousands of dangerous Acres. Dangerous as in the land and animals. The only reason I started with $50 lights is I had a $50 gift card. No other reason. For many years already all of my lights have been very high end stuff. I will not get another light like that until Surefire replaces it. Or another top American company bests it. The Timascus Hanko in my pocket is much brighter than that A5. I replaced the Nichia's with XPL's. High CRI is not my priority in that light. I need a glove though. It still is much brighter than any $50 light on the website we are speaking of. In fact I have some plastic rectangle light I forget the name, it is a good light. It takes 4xaa lithium and one XHP is much brighter than any of those.

    Just forget this thread please. I really appreciate everyone teaching me. However this really let's my stupidity shine. You would think that after this many years I would know better. I fell for a typical newbie trap. At least I already have a UDR.

    Edit: the plastic light I was speaking of is a PrincetonTec Tec 40 modified to accept a drop in XHP 70.2 module. It has additional heatsinks. For it's size, weight, form factor and run time it is a nice light. Certainly nicer than it started out Before someone says there is no XHP capsule, it was custom fabricated. I have 10 of them and, no they are not for sale.

    Edit2: I did manage to find lights that are not 50 bucks but not expensive either that easily throw much further than the UDR. They also have much more candella. However the key thing is I would not count on them in time of need. I will count on Surefire! For one thing I do not even know that those claims are true. Although they were from some of the more reputable companies but still Chinese. The reason I do not own a Streamlight HL5 even though it has a 70.2 is the crazy charging system. I own all the current Surefire lineup and think they are much nicer than Streamlight. Before you say I am a rich jerk, They made me a very nice deal for purchasing them all. What I find interesting is there brightest light is a WML. I actually prefer lasers on firearms. I am not a LEO.

    Okay, hopefully we forget this thread. It served to make me look very stupid. I do appreciate very much those that answered my questions. I am actually surprised that I fell for this at this juncture.
    Last edited by nitebrite; 09-12-2020 at 02:28 AM.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Shouldn't this be brighter than the UDR dominator?

    Quote Originally Posted by nitebrite View Post
    It is honestly hard to beat the UDR.
    agree, enjoy your UDR!

    here is a light you might also enjoy:

    Acebeam L17 Green
    820 meters throw
    84 candela per lumen

    Quote Originally Posted by Lux-Perpetua



  22. #22

    Default Re: Shouldn't this be brighter than the UDR dominator?

    Putting a larger/higher lumen LED in a small reflector is like putting a Mack truck diesel engine in a compact sports car to get more horse power. Forget lumens and look for cd/throw and beam patterns. Unfortunately lumens have become synonymous with brightness when candlepower/cd is more important (which is why flashlights used to be measured in candlepower instead of lumens). Flashlight manufactures are caught up in the lumen wars and keep putting bigger/higher lumen LEDs in their lights that actually reduce throw and perceived brightness to get higher lumen numbers. Lumens sell, even if they are phony/made up lumens. I have come to see high lumens as a negative. I like to have only enough lumens to get the beam distance and beam pattern that I want and no more.

    Of course, dependability is key also - a light that is not utterly dependable is a toy.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Shouldn't this be brighter than the UDR dominator?

    Okay I really trust you jon. Since you mentioned Acebeam. This goes to xxo's comment and my feeling precisely. Acebeam has a very large light that is only 1375 lumens. It has throw of 1750 meters. It has over 300,000 candella. At least I am pretty sure it was Acebeam. I will check for sure certainly before I purchase it. It is only 300 bucks. My question to you jon, would you count on Acebeam even as a backup? See this is not fun or a hobby to me. I actually need this amount of illumination. The UDR is very important because I can almost bank my life on it to function. If I can get more throw it is welcome. It cannot break the second time though. Forget the 50 bucks. I would spend whatever it takes. The 50 bucks was just because of the stupid gift card. I think you can actually get way more than that Giggles now. You are right though. It is going to be a light with not many lumens. It will have a huge reflector. I enjoy pocket lights but I count on these land sweepers.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Shouldn't this be brighter than the UDR dominator?

    Love my UDR... have an Acebeam L17 and Fenix TK30 enroute. Looking forward to comparing the three. Dominator is a keeper.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Shouldn't this be brighter than the UDR dominator?

    Yeah, even if one of these Chinese lights could out throw the Surefire you do not exactly throw that away. It is simply a better light. From the UI to a lot of reasons. The LED in it is the king of the hill. Every other light mostly uses a Cree. I do not understand how the lumens go down and the throw and candella go up? You would have think I had learned this stuff by now but nope. For one thing 500,000 lumen flashlights for 80 bucks is not even amusing. The problem is some poor kid buy's that. I will post a link to something in a bit for ya'll to check out. Tell me if this looks legit. Hold on a bit.

    There is a much more powerful light but must order from China.

    Check out this Acebeam:
    https://www.amazon.com/Acebeam-Long-...9971976&sr=8-3
    Last edited by nitebrite; 09-12-2020 at 10:42 PM.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Shouldn't this be brighter than the UDR dominator?

    Quote Originally Posted by nitebrite View Post
    lumens go down and the throw and candella go up
    correct, as the beam gets tighter and more focused, it throws farther :-)

    you are on the right track by comparing Throw specs..

    I also look at weight specs. Note the UDR and K75 are 5 times heavier than the TK30.
    There is also a huge price difference, the UDR costs 4 times more, and throws less, than the other two mentioned.

    the UDR throw is 903 meters,
    Weight with batteries 38 ounces

    Fenix TK30 throw is 1200 meters
    Weight with batteries: 7 Ounces

    the Acebeam K75 throw is 2500 meters
    Weight with batteries: 36 ounces
    Last edited by jon_slider; 09-13-2020 at 10:01 AM.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Shouldn't this be brighter than the UDR dominator?

    As I mentioned, I am going to quit while I am ahead. there is no way that throws 2500 meters. It would need to be the size of a fire plug. Plus it would be a heck of a lot more than 300 bucks. If that could be done, surefire would do it. I sometimes come across these type of lights and like I mentioned a Hanko or Deadwood ETC. Can outdo them. We are talking 1.5x the throw of the UDR. No way. I just pointed it out. Unless you think that is actually legit? If you vouch for it, heck I will get one. AFAIK it is completely bogus. There is one that throws 3800 meters but have to order from China. It is a Thrunite. I really don't know what to believe anymore. I always just either go to the same custom makers or Surefire.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Shouldn't this be brighter than the UDR dominator?

    Quote Originally Posted by nitebrite View Post
    there is no way that throws 2500 meters. ... Plus it would be a heck of a lot more than 300 bucks. If that could be done, surefire would do it.
    here is a review that verified the throw independently:

    Acebeam K75 (Massive thrower and output, Luminus SBT-90 Gen2, 18650x4) Review ... Throw (Calculated) (m)2482.1 (99.3% of claim)




    Quote Originally Posted by sledhead View Post
    Love my UDR... have an Acebeam L17 and Fenix TK30 enroute. Looking forward to comparing the three. Dominator is a keeper.
    congrats on having a range of options

    I look forward to your impressions

    Candela/Lumen
    UDR = 83
    L17 = 114
    K75 = 245
    TK30 = 767 !!!!
    Last edited by jon_slider; 09-14-2020 at 02:52 PM.

  29. #29

    Default Re: Shouldn't this be brighter than the UDR dominator?

    Shows where talking uneducated will get you. That is amazing. Yes, the TK30 is cool but does not serve my purpose. I will try the K75 for a while and see if it proves reliable. So this thread had a very good purpose after all.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Shouldn't this be brighter than the UDR dominator?

    Quote Originally Posted by nitebrite View Post
    Shows where talking uneducated will get you. That is amazing. Yes, the TK30 is cool but does not serve my purpose. I will try the K75 for a while and see if it proves reliable. So this thread had a very good purpose after all.
    At all you must take into account that this big throwers are all kind of unhandy. I an also owner of an UDR, it is a cool light, but big and unhandy, at least if you would like to EDC it.

    Also you should take into account that this lights with >6000 Lumesn are getting hot and are often even more unhandy than the UDR.

    If you only want a light with a long throw the LEP lights might be intersting. They have throw distances >1000m. But the beam is extremely focussed.
    Still looking for Surefire G2 in Orange.
    If you have one you don't like please PM me.

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