Need recommendation. smallest light meeting these parameters?

I have honestly spent many hours looking for this. Since I did not wish to further pester you folks here. I realize I may have come off as a pain lately. See I have taken about a Five year break from this. Right now I am building up my 20/21 collection. Luckily I have some cash to play with but I do not brag. I understand lights still. They have not changed that much. They have just become more powerful. What I am having trouble with is throwers. Last time The Dominator was about it. I have carried it to heck and back. I can tell you stories you would highly doubt. Now it has been completely outdone by $200 or so lights. A $500 light will destroy it. So without wasting anymore of your time, my current question is as follows:

What is the smallest light I can find featuring the following. The numbers I state are "real" numbers and not manufacturer claims.

Smallest light,
2500+ lumens "actual"
1300+ meters throw "actual"
HAIII
Onboard charging, prefer USB 'C' or magnetic or a barrel plug
Weight is not of concern
A modified light is fine so long as it does not lose factory features and is reliable
That is pretty much my wish list!

The issue is everything I am finding is either much larger or much smaller. I understand that this is by no means a 'keychain' light however. I am hoping for something with a 3.5 to 4" head and a 2.5 to 3" handle. I would think that would be where a light with that output falls but for the life of me I cannot find anyone that makes such a thing. There are lights that 'claim' those specs that are in fact much smaller than what I just stated. In reality they do not perform at those levels. Plus after a couple of minutes when they step down they are at 80% less than what I am looking for. I want it to step down to about 30% of the numbers I have mentioned. So I think the size that I am guessing is spot on. However as far as I can tell something like what I wish for does not exist. Perhaps the only option is to go to a much larger light which does not really fit this application. If anyone can throw out any models for me that meet all of this criteria it would be much appreciated. Thank you all very much

Noctigon K1vn is pretty dang close to what you are looking for. Have you been on skylumen any or emailed vinh to see what he can do for you?

nitebrite said:

The numbers I state are "real" numbers and not manufacturer claims.

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Manufacturer claims are real. None of the serious manufacturers exaggerate and they'd be run out of the forums on a rail if they did. Occasionally they don't mention stepdowns. However stepdowns are a valid option as defined by the ANSI FL1 testing procedures. The bigger issue is that people don't understand what the manufacturer's tested measurements actually means. Or understand the physical limits in the world that manufacturers can do very little about.

There are 28 lights in my database with 2500 lumens and 1300 meters throw. Then there are 5 models with integrated charging:

• Acebeam T28 (the least expensive at $160 and has USB-C charging)
• Manker MK25 II
• Nitecore TM39 Lite
• Acebeam X65
• Nitecore TM39

Based on your parameters I suspect you already know about the Acebeam T28 but are somehow disappointed by it.

Plus after a couple of minutes when they step down they are at 80% less than what I am looking for. I want it to step down to about 30% of the numbers I have mentioned.

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Almost any high powered light will need to step down. Simple physics: everything makes heat and 2300 lumens makes a respectable amount of heat. Better lights will use thermal regulation instead of simple timers. Carry along a block of ice and those lights will run at 2300 lumens nonstop. Though the "dumb" lights with timers can often have their timers reset by turning the light off and on. Allowing them to run at 2300 lumens nearly continuously until they cook themselves to death.

I actually have a T28vn. I have a stock T27 that is absolutely perfect in this scenario. The reason I am discounting it is because vinh himself says it is only 1800lm and 1158m. So given your claim, parametrek how does vinh come out with numbers this far off from Acebeam? If it truly is 2500 lumens +/- and 1180m +/- we could stop this thread right here. I just want to understand how vinh measures it so much lower. Claiming that Acebeam grossly exaggerated both the T27 and T28 capability? Is it simply that he just wants to sell his modifications or does this hold water? According to what you just stated, parametrek this cannot be correct? I saw another place stating that the K70 only throws 503m. I think a lot of these hobbyist claims may be way off and not the manufacturers perhaps? I have no clue how they come up with these way lower numbers. I hope you can tell me what is going on. Of course without offending anyone.

I do realize the T27 does not have 1300 meters but I would take the trade off in size. 1800 lumens though? That is way off the 2500lm claim and he does the same number on the T28. What is the deal?


Edit: the five above fall into my category of way overkill. I am very happy using the T27 for this application if someone informs me that the manufacturers specifications are correct. Thank you

I figure this would not get responded to. I will just assume hobbyists are not equipped to perform these tasks. This then would cross over to the likes of Mooch testing batteries. Take any third party conclusions outside of manufacturer specs with a grain of salt. I will therefore assume that the T27 is indeed 2500lm and 1180m and therefore enjoy it. Not 1800lm, 1158m per vinh. Manufacturers are not able to blatantly lie. However hobbyists are able to err. I foresee this thread ultimately getting locked now. I have only stated the obvious.

nitebrite said:

I am discounting it is because vinh himself says it is only 1800lm and 1158m.
…
how does vinh come out with numbers this far off from Acebeam?
...

I am very happy using the T27 for this application if someone informs me that the manufacturers specifications are correct.

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if youre happy with the light, the specs dont matter

Comparing specs from different sources is a fools errand.
I have done it myself.

Once I got my own light meter.. I never looked back.

Highly recommend you buy a light meter, and get your own specs.

happy to hear you have options.. choices are good

What lightmeter are you using jon? Wanted to get one myself for a while now, but have no idea whats good. Im just looking for something simple .

I apologize for being a jerk. You are correct as usual though jon. I have a lot of lights. I count myself lucky. I am going to go with what you said because I really trust you. Plus it makes a lot of sense. Even from light to light there could be variances. Environmental variances. Too many things to even call. I am happy. Looks good to me. I just don't like when people spoil the party but whatever. I actually have a sphere and a meter everything I need The problem is as you say. I cannot get accurate readings. I am going to trust the manufacturers. Since as I said it is highly doubtful that the reputable ones would blatantly lie. If they achieved 'X' numbers then the unit they tested produced those numbers at that time. At least that is what I would like to think.

Vinh clearly states that his numbers are only to be based off of his other lights because he doesn't measure the exact same as everyone else. Nobody does.

> What lightmeter are you using jon?

Im not sure my setup is suitable for your needs, as my main interest is to measure lumen change on small lights, after an LED swap. There are far more sophisticated and expensive intergrating spheres, as well as moderately expensive intergrating tubes.. google those..

anyway, here is a photo, it was a $45 meter.. just an inexpensive test, that worked better than expected


there is a vitamin jar lid over the sensor. I calibrated it by adding a couple pieces of printer paper and kleenex, until my meter read, what I though the output of the light I put on it was supposed to be, per manufacturer.

at the time I use a light called a Lumintop AAA Copper Tool, that had a 0.8 lumen low, and I calibrated to that.

later I got an HDS, which is supposedly calibrated to 200 lumens. My meter said 210 lumens, so I added a bit more tissue paper, and viola, bobs your uncle

was very surprised that the calibration scaled perfectly to read the minimum mode on my HDS accurately also

but Im not set up for larger lights.

> Manufacturer claims are real. None of the serious manufacturers exaggerate and they'd be run out of the forums on a rail if they did.

ime it is hit and miss.. some claims are accurate, others diverge to alternative facts
for me, manufacturers claims are not credible until verified, for example by a review from zeroair
most recently Hogo measured the new supposedly 950 lumen RRT-01. On the relatively expensive HDS sphere, it measured 550 lumens, and on my intergrated Vitamin Cap, it measured 525 lumens.

iow, my meter, and the HDS meter were within 5% of each other, but 42% lower than manufacturer published specs


> I actually have a sphere and a meter everything I need The problem is as you say. I cannot get accurate readings.

true and false
you can get accurate reading if you calibrate to accurate sources

but I was not suggesting trying to compete with expensive equipment

my recommendation to have a light meter is simply so you can compare your own lights to each other.. thats all.. I dont care about "exact" lumens. (there seems to be no such animal). I care about Relative Lumens.. such as.. this light is 30% brighter, or, this light is 30% less bright.. like that.. proportions.. not hard numbers.

I fully understand. on the T27 vinh got 1158m from 1180m. That is perfectly understandable and reasonable. However on the T27 and T28 He comes up with 1800lm from 2500lm? That is a huge discrepancy. I honestly like to trust him. I understand his disclaimer of "his numbers are only to be based off of his other lights because he doesn't measure the exact same as everyone else." Someone else in his thread states that they got 1900lm out of the T27. I do not see how the manufacturer can get away with exaggerating that much? Likewise, I read elsewhere in a review that the reviewer came to the conclusion that the K70 only threw 503 meters! Again, a Huge discrepancy for Acebeam. Perhaps I have this all wrong. I should not be faulting the reviewers and if so my sincere apologies to each and all of them. Is it possible that Acebeam inflates specs? Or do you think that the specs that "they" measured were in fact actually measured by them and not fabricated? If so, how could a discrepancy like this be possible? Now we have more than one person calling them out. I do not understand. I am not trying to create liable against Acebeam. I am simply asking how can this be? I honestly want Acebeams own measured numbers to be accurate owning several of their lights. Perhaps they are measuring the die and not OTF? That would certainly be an explanation. I assume for instance that Surefire tests OTF. This is not limited to Acebeam. It seems that Surefire is the only light that consistently meets or beats it's spec claims. I am not trying to cause trouble. I am just trying to learn. I mean no one any harm or to offend anyone. I am simply curious. Please do not take me the wrong way. I have good intent. Thank you folks for helping me.

If you look on the T28 sales page by acebeam under the box that gives you the numbers you will see that it states "these numbers are approximate".

As far as numbers go it depends on the battery used. How far away the measurement was made. What temperature it was when testing. How long the light ran during the test. What battery was used by each tester. So many variables can skew numbers.

bigburly912 that disclaimer is given by every flashlight company. for that low of lumens for there to be a 30% difference I would gather it is more than just batteries, distance ETC. I have a feeling either they are measuring the die and others are measuring OTF or something else more drastic. Or it is entirely possible that the measuring systems account for 30% loss. As Acebeam may have a $$$$ measuring system, whereas the hobbyists may have a $ measuring system as do I. That not meaning what you might think. My measuring system may be valued at about $3500.00. Which I gather is probably much less than that of the likes of vinh. To say Acebeam may have something state of the art in China costing upwards of $50,000USD hence the 30% discrepancy. That is just a guess at one scenario. Remember, we are sort of taking batteries, distance ETC. out of the equation. all of us using spheres with a Samsung 40T battery. These are on test sleds, not in actual usage. To lose 30% on a test sled is odd.

jon said that he trusted others test sleds. So I am not really sure what is going on. I have put out several scenarios but do not know if any of them hold true. It may be something else entirely. It may simply be that they inflated their claims. I would really hope that is not the case. Under this testing methodology it should not be some environmental variable however. Their testing should have been replicated. Unless they have much better testing facilities. This is a test, not real world usage. I have no clue where the loss lies. In fact, just because vinh got 1800lm in a sphere. Any given one in real world usage. Could perhaps be much lower, or higher I suppose than. I figure that is the ultimate answer. Since we do not walk around with spheres on our flashlights.

If one feels it is bright enough for the task at hand than it shall suffice. That is pretty much all there is too it. As others mentioned sitting and looking at numbers does not get one very far. If in doubt, just go larger. If physically larger is not an issue. For it's size the T27 is a marvel. A few years ago a light like that did not exist. I prefer it stock so all the buttons work. The eye could not tell 1800lm+>2500lm anyhow outdoors. I think these tests are designed simply to upset people such as myself

Contact Vihn. He'll hook you up with what you seek. Custom-style. If it's physically possible he can make it happen.

I have a T28vn and other vn lights. I just realized something. They had updated the T27. Perhaps he tested an older one getting those numbers. Also as I said 1800lm>2600lm outdoors at over 1100 meters hardly matters. Plus what he got does not mean that Acebeam did not get what they got. Hence the disclaimer. For it's size, it is a lot of light. I did not want that in vn because I wanted the tail cap to function. That is really a tactical light and not a thrower. I recommend it. It is very small. It has good close up spill as well.

Okay, this was an exercise in futility. vihn and company obviously had tested the older one as I had thought(Acebeam T27). Or something else came into play. Mine is hitting slightly over 2500 lumens with a Samsung 40T on full charge. Completely stock. I should have done this first.

nitebrite said:

Okay, this was an exercise in futility. vihn and company obviously had tested the older one as I had thought(Acebeam T27). Or something else came into play. Mine is hitting slightly over 2500 lumens with a Samsung 40T on full charge. Completely stock. I should have done this first.

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You should have done what first?

bigburly912 said:

You should have done what first?

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Actually tested it. At least that is what I am guessing here by his statement.

Also, I just want to chime in on the whole testing thing. I don't have a professional level light meter, nor even a home made DIY integrating sphere. I use the light meter built into my phone. In a completely dark room where the meter reads zero to start. I compare lights with the numbers I get and I have one or two lights that I trust to actually be close to what the manufacturer claims as good enough for the purpose of doing so. I can tell which of my lights are brighter than what other lights I own. Most of the time that is all I am concerned with.

I like the beam of Acebeam L17 a lot. It is with a very concentrated tight hotspot, but does have some spill. It is also driven hard. You can learn about it with a few reviews and video reviews.
Anxiously waiting for a review for Acebeam L18, which will be slightly bigger, but more throwy.