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  1. #1
    Flashaholic*
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    Default Unexpected disappointment

    I bought an Arc LS second last Thursday. It arrived yesterday. That was fast considering I'm half way around the world. They shipped the same day I placed my order. Not really surprised knowing the reputation on the customer service of Arc.

    Thanks, Peter.

    Anyway, I got an LSH-S. It was immediately obvious why it was a second. The color mismatch between the head and the TSP was very pronounced and the knurling was also different.

    The beam was white with a slight tinge of purple on the corona of the spill. So I got my LSHF which I bought from Arc's Christmas sale last year to compare the brightness. Imagine my surprise when I shined them both on a white wall to find out that the beam on my LSHF is green tinted. Not just blotches of green but the whole beam. At first I couldn't believe it so I waited till I got home to test it again in a dark room. My results were confirmed. I'm really disappointed with this discovery because the LSHF's beam is inferior to an Arc LSHS and a second at that. It's obviously brighter but the tint really bothers me. I could live with blue or yellow but of all the colors, I had to get green which is not even on my list of acceptable tints. The LSHF was my first LS light so I never had anything to compare the beam to because it was the whitest I'd ever seen at the time.

    If I were given the choice between the two, I'd choose the second for the nicer beam but the color mismatch of the HA bothers me too much. I bought the second to give to someone and I still intend to give it away but now I'm stuck with a light that doesn't live up to expectations. I certainly can't return or exchange it because it is way past the 30 day window. I also don't intend to purchase another one because it costs me $162 + more than 30% in duties and taxes to get the light here. I'm not willing to spend that much again to bet on the luxeon lottery because I thought that a premium would provide less risk.

    I'm not blaming Arc or Peter for this. I just want to vent my frustration on my bad luck. I've never been lucky at gambling but I never thought it would apply even to flashlights. What a bummer. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Unexpected disappointment

    but you didn't know the beam was green 'til just now?

  3. #3
    *Flashaholic* Rothrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Unexpected disappointment

    comparing lights side by side is always very subjective.

    i compared a x4t and a v3u. the v3u is amazingly white while using it by itself. the x4t is a little blue while using it for itself.

    if i use the x4t for a while, then turn on the v3u, the v3u seems purple, where the x4t seems white.
    if i use the v3u for a while, then turn on the x4t, the x4t seems really blue, and the v3u appears white.

    if you were happy with the beam of the lshf before, then i wouldn't really worry about it [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    like you said though, the second might just be a second because of cosmetic issues, and still have a premium led in it, where your lshf is just a standard.

    and of course, all leds are subject to variation, no matter what bin they are.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Unexpected disappointment

    Your experience is probably not unusual. I too thought that my LSH was a nice white light. Then not too long ago I lit up a wall with both the LSH and a SF L1. Much to by surprise the LSH appeared as a pale green while the L1 had a distinct purple cast and much more purple central region. This bothers me when I have both beams on at the same time, but the eyes are more forgiving when either are on alone provided some time has passed since comparing them.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Unexpected disappointment

    You have my sympathies Billson! Some of what you are seeing with the white LED appearing green is a difference in tint. Some of the appearance may also be a result of our brain/eye "color balance" effect. Ever noticed how you can use a red beam to walk through the house for a couple of minutes and when you turn the room lights on, everything looks green? And if you use blue, things will look red.

    The eye/brain loop can create optical illusions. The best bet is to use the beam in a typical situation. You may also want to look at it on a flat white surface or use a Kelvin meter. The meter will show that every LED is different.

    At Arc, we are pretty picky about LED tint!

    If you ever get a factory first from Arc and you think the beam is too far from white, let us know and we will replace it under our 30-day satisfaction guarantee.

    Peter

  6. #6
    Flashaholic* LitFuse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Unexpected disappointment

    Comparing Luxeon LED lights against each other is a good way to make yourself crazy very quickly.

    A purple tinted LS will make what you though was a nice white LS take on a greenish tint. Maybe it's green, and maybe it isn't. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif[/img]

    I recommend only turning on one at a time, it's a small price to pay for your sanity. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    Billson, when you get your TWOK LS, compare it to the "greenie", this should give you a good baseline for what's "white". Good luck. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

    Peter

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Unexpected disappointment

    A Chinese proverb goes something like this: ďa man with one watch knows what time it is, a man with two watches is never sure.Ē Itís taken me a while to get more realistic regarding the most natural compulsion of any flashaholic to compare and contrast in detail like LED lights, especially with respect to tint. But, I think Iím almost there now. I have one Surefire L4 that appears much greener than the other L4 I own. But, in reality, both work just fine for any real use Iíve ever had for either one.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Unexpected disappointment

    Your second may have a violet tint.
    I have LSH-P and LSH-S seconds. Which is brighter depends on which is on the twistie.
    My LSH-S has a blue tint with tinge of red (it's a tad violet, though not as bad as my stock KL1 was).
    It "looks" brighter because of the blue, and does make details stand out better than the LSH-P which actually has a whiter beam.
    Next to a blue or red tinted LED, the whiter one will always look yellow or green.
    Instead of looking at the beams on the wall, try illuminating normal objects in your house, or even the grass in the yard. Things you're familiar with.
    Your LSHF may indded be green, I just don't think comparing to a different tinted LED on the wall is an accurate indicator of that.
    When I did QC detecting color variations, we always had a standard to compare to. I use my LSH-P for comparing to my other lights because it has the truest color rendition...

  9. #9

    Default Re: Unexpected disappointment

    Peter said:

    [ QUOTE ]
    Ever noticed how you can use a red beam to walk through the house for a couple of minutes and when you turn the room lights on, everything looks green? And if you use blue, things will look red.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That is probably more of a physical effect within the eye. When staring at one color, the receptors that respond to that color in the eye use up their available energy at a rate depending upon the color components that are being viewed. If you then look at a white surface, the receptors that did not have their energy (partially) used up fire more strongly than those that did. Thus we see a 'complimentary' color.

    Comparing colors is more of a brain function provided the above effect has not been produced. We expect a light to be white (for whatever reason) and the brain says 'OK, it's white' provided the light is not too far removed from white. When comparing lights, the brain is not going to be so compliant.

    That the brain is active in color interpretation is demonstrated by a condition where some links get crossed somehow and a person will report smells and/or tastes (don't remenber the specific details) as color (e.g. 'That smells blue'). I seem to recall that certain drugs will produce this effect, which has nothing to do with the eyes.

  10. #10
    Flashaholic* Sean's Avatar
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    Default Re: Unexpected disappointment

    If it makes you feel any better, I have never ever seen a luxeon star produce a white beam. My Surefires (KL1, L4, L5, L6) have tended to be on the blue/violet side and my Arcs (LSH-S, LSHF-P, Arc4+) have tended to be on the green side. I prefer the green because under most conditions the greenish beam appears white, wereas the bluish beams tend to look blue all the time.

    Side by side comparisons are always telling. You are always going to get LED's on either the green or blue side. I've heard a lot of people claim to have an absolutely white beam. I'll believe it when I see it because I've never seen one. But current hand sorted luxeons are really close to white. The fact that you couldn't tell until now shows this.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Unexpected disappointment

    [ QUOTE ]
    Sean said:
    Side by side comparisons are always telling. You are always going to get LED's on either the green or blue side.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Don't forget the pink to violet side (would that be a reddish tint)?. Four of my Arcs (2 LSH and 2 Arc 4's) have a pink to violet tint.

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