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Thread: Need recommendations for Kia Soul EV lighting enhancements

  1. #1

    Default Need recommendations for Kia Soul EV lighting enhancements

    Hello, I am hoping to get some advice for the best path forward on my 2016 Kia Soul EV wrt lighting upgrades. My Soul is all electric, and has OEM LED lighting for MOST things, except the following: low beams, high beams, fogs, rear turn signal indicators (1156A), backup/reverse lights (921). I would love to have the backup and rear turn signals be LED, but it looks like that might not be possible since the Zevo LED 1156 options depend entirely on the design of the housing and reflector, and there doesn't seem to be any decent LED 921 bulbs that I can find.

    I have made the following list of bulb types and their potential upgrades from searching around the forum:


    • Low beams - Projector
      • Oem bulb: H7
      • Upgrade: daniel stern 65w H7


    • High beams - Projector

      • Oem bulb: H7
      • Upgrade: daniel stern 65w h7

    • Fog lights - Projector
      • Oem bulb: 9006
      • Upgrade: 9012 HIR2 (GM23342527)

    • Reverse lights - Reflector

    • Rear turn signals - Reflector
      • Oem bulb: 1156A
      • Upgrade: Zevo 1156A led? depends on design of housing see pics below

    • Brake lights - oem integrated led
    • Front Turn signals - oem integrated led


    For custom lighting options, there are a few routes. The Kia Soul EV has two large (4.6"), round retroreflectors in the rear bumper. In North America these are just reflectors, but in some countries these are combo retroreflectors and rear fog lights. I am having immense trouble sourcing the Kia OEM rear fog modules. I took a look under the bumper and it does appear that the wiring harness for my car has a blocked off plug that could be for the non-existent rear fogs. I would have to do some testing to see if any of the conductors go hot when the fogs are turned on, and also potentially add fuses/relays in the right spots to make this work. Before going down this path, given the knowledge that the OEM rear fog lights use a P21W/1156 bulb, is that adequate for rear fog application? Would it simply be better to ditch the idea of OEM rear fogs and install an aftermarket LED variety from peterson?

    If going the aftermarket route, I would like to replace the retroreflectors in the bumper with LED lights. peterson has many options. Since I would also like to supplement the reverse/backup lighting, I could use their round rear fog/backup combo light, but then I lose retroreflectors. Could I add reflective tape (would this be legal & safe)?
    Do rear retroreflectors have to be red? Peterson has a clear, round backup module with reflector built in around the edge. They also have a round red version with reflector sold as a taillight, would that be inappropriate in a rear fog application (they look similar to the rear fog lights, but looks can be deceiving). For mounting these LED lights, I can try to cannibalize the retroreflectors for their mounting tabs, or I could 3d print something that would work. I don't think the grommet that peterson sells would work, nor would the flange mount. Are there other options I'm missing? I don't see anything that has reflector, rear fog, and backup in one 4.5" round module.

    Now here is a list of potential upgrades that are expanding the OEM lighting (not just upgrading a bulb):

    • Rear Fogs - OEM Reflector
      • Oem bulb: 1156/P21W
      • Upgrade: Zevo 1156 led?
      • Assembly: Kia 92451-E4100 LAMP ASSY REAR FOG LH/RH

    • Rear Fog - Peterson
      • Assembly: 1217F - Clear, Round, all red diodes
      • Assembly: 1217F-C - Clear, Round, half red half white diodes
      • Assembly: M829R-7 - Red, Round, all white diodes w/reflector

    • Aux Reverse Lights - Peterson
      • Assembly: 1217F-C - Clear, Round, half red half white diodes
      • Assembly: 1217KC-9 - Clear, Round, all white diodes
      • Assembly: 1220KC-10 - Clear, Oval, all white diodes - would cut new holes in bumper to left and right of license plate
      • Assembly: 817KC-9 - Clear, Round, all white diodes
      • Assembly: M829C-7 - Clear, Round, all white diodes w/reflector


    My car:
    https://i.imgur.com/HWKYXCT.jpg

    Rear turn signal detail:
    https://i.imgur.com/Vn9t5CG.jpg
    https://i.imgur.com/08KAPZR.jpg

    Kia OEM Fogs:
    https://i.imgur.com/d7zbOeZ.jpg
    https://i.imgur.com/Ox6WRpc.jpg
    https://i.imgur.com/l5hLQEj.jpg

    Wiring Harness connector with plug:
    https://i.imgur.com/TuGU7Ga.jpg

    Retroreflector size:
    https://i.imgur.com/b9n9dt1.jpg

    Any help/suggestions are appreciated. Thanks!

  2. #2

    Default Re: Need recommendations for Kia Soul EV lighting enhancements

    Welcome to the board!

    I would love to have the backup and rear turn signals be LED, but it looks like that might not be possible since the Zevo LED 1156 options depend entirely on the design of the housing and reflector
    ...which also means, it might be possible. Make sure to get the Sylvania Zevo bulbs and not the ones that only say just "Sylvania". Review and use the instructions here to find out. The turn signal flash rate will be improper with an LED, so you would need to deal with that. The typical suggestion is to install "load resistors" (like these), but that involves compromising (piercing/cutting) wires, so try and see if there's another way. Perhaps the body computer can be reflashed, either to "see" LEDs back there or to enter a trailer-tow mode that would cancel the load-sensitivity of the turn signal flashing.

    there doesn't seem to be any decent LED 921 bulbs that I can find
    Well, there's these which put out 200 lumens and are similarly designed/configured to the good first-generation Philips bulb. You could also try out these, but their "claim to fame" is 115 lumens, and a standard 921 bulb puts out 263 lumens, so there's that. Whichever ones you try, you would need to carefully compare their performance as per the link already given.

    Your low and high beam upgrade choice is spot on, use the 65w H7 bulbs. Do not put HIR2/9012 bulbs in the front fog lamps, you will make them far too glaring no matter how you aim them, and they will still be useless to you. Best leave them alone and switched off permanently.


    two large (4.6"), round retroreflectors in the rear bumper. In North America these are just reflectors, but in some countries these are combo retroreflectors and rear fog lights. I am having immense trouble sourcing the Kia OEM rear fog modules.
    What, you mean like this one right over here? And its other-side brother? (there's a British flag at the top of the page if you want it rendered in English)

    I took a look under the bumper and it does appear that the wiring harness for my car has a blocked off plug that could be for the non-existent rear fogs. I would have to do some testing to see if any of the conductors go hot when the fogs are turned on
    The rear fogs aren't tied in with the front fog switch. The rear fogs (have to) have their own switch and indicator light visible to the driver. If you want factory equipment you will have to figure out where the rear fog switch is located on European Souls (could be built into the same multi-function switch as the front fogs, could be a totally separate switch, could be built into the headlamp switch, etc) and obtain the necessary parts. If that's too cumbersome, here's a nice kit of necessary parts (if it doesn't show in English, click the Swedish flag in the top-right corner of the page).

    given the knowledge that the OEM rear fog lights use a P21W/1156 bulb, is that adequate for rear fog application?
    It's a P21W, not an 1156 -- similar but not the same. Yes, it's adequate, why not? If you really feel they need to be brighter, you can use this (566 lumens vs. 402 from an 1156). Or you could try out a Zevo 1156R and see how it does.

    Would it simply be better to ditch the idea of OEM rear fogs and install an aftermarket LED variety from peterson?
    More work and additional problems and it wouldn't look like it was supposed to be there, so...I would vote "no".

    If going the aftermarket route, I would like to replace the retroreflectors in the bumper with LED lights
    ...thus losing your rear retroreflectors, which are very important (and legally required) crash-avoidance devices.

    Do rear retroreflectors have to be red?
    Yes.

    Peterson has a round red version with reflector sold as a taillight, would that be inappropriate in a rear fog application
    A lamp designed and intended as a rear fog lamp is appropriate as a rear fog lamp. A lamp not designed and intended as a rear fog lamp is usually not appropriate as a rear fog lamp. You can parse into this with certain brake lights' performance overlapping with the rear fog performance requirements, but it's really best to stick to the intended functions. Want a rear fog lamp, get a rear fog lamp. Want a brake light, get a brake light. Etc.


    (Not related to the substance of your question, but to its format: please minimize your use of markup, some of which the board doesn't honor and most of which just makes things annoying in various ways. Specifically, please try and avoid using "FONT" tags, "COLOR" tags, etc. You may not have meant to do so; sometimes if you compose a message in an external program, like MS Word, it adds a bunch of tags and garbage to your text that you might not necessarily notice when you paste it in here.)

  3. #3

    Default Re: Need recommendations for Kia Soul EV lighting enhancements

    Quote Originally Posted by -Virgil- View Post
    The turn signal flash rate will be improper with an LED, so you would need to deal with that.
    My car has a configurable number of blinks (3, 5, or 7) when the turn signal stalk is tapped momentarily for lane changes (they call it One Touch Turn Lamp). This would lead me to believe that the control of blinking the turn signal is handled digitally by the computer, and not by a traditional flasher module/circuit. What do you think?

    Quote Originally Posted by -Virgil- View Post
    Well, there's these which put out 200 lumens and are similarly designed/configured to the good first-generation Philips bulb.
    Since those claim 200 lumens and the standard 921 is 263 lumens, I dont think its likely I'll get any improvement. Im ok with the reverse lights being incandescent since they are used so infrequently.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Virgil- View Post
    Do not put HIR2/9012 bulbs in the front fog lamps, you will make them far too glaring no matter how you aim them, and they will still be useless to you. Best leave them alone and switched off permanently.
    For my own edification, is the reason to not use the 9012 bulbs because of the lack of "blacktop"? My assumption was that since these are projector fogs, the lack of blacktop would not produce excessive glare due to the light being focused and directed by the lens. If my assumption here is wrong, I would love to read any resources that could explain further.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Virgil- View Post
    What, you mean like this one right over here? And its other-side brother? (there's a British flag at the top of the page if you want it rendered in English)
    Thanks for those, my google-fu hadn't found those pages. I am not seeing an option to ship to USA in the standard shipping checkout page. Have you ordered from that site before? Perhaps I just need to email them to get a custom shipping quote. Regardless, those are about $120 USD a piece, a bit over what I'm willing to spend to get OEM rear fogs. I'll keep looking, I'm mostly focusing on used parts from scrapyards, but since the Soul EV isn't very common its very hard to find used parts for it. I was able to find this and this, for a more reasonable ~60 USD. I have contacted them for a shipping to US quote.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Virgil- View Post
    The rear fogs aren't tied in with the front fog switch. The rear fogs (have to) have their own switch and indicator light visible to the driver. If you want factory equipment you will have to figure out where the rear fog switch is located on European Souls (could be built into the same multi-function switch as the front fogs, could be a totally separate switch, could be built into the headlamp switch, etc) and obtain the necessary parts.
    I found a Owner's manual that shows what the rear fog indicator light looks like (its yellow instead of green, and is the reverse of the front fog pictogram). Additionally, the rear fog switch is located in the same place as the front fog switch on the turn stalk, it is simply a third position that the switch can go to. I will go try to see if the rear fog indicator light is present on my dash and report back. I don't know how to tell if it has a bulb to illuminate it, even if it is present. Additionally, I would have to source and purchase the OEM 3 position fog switch (probably have to buy the whole turn stalk?). I'll start searching.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Virgil- View Post
    Or you could try out a Zevo 1156R and see how it does.
    Just curious, why the red diode? The lens is red and the stock P21W bulb is white (as I'm sure you're aware of).

    Quote Originally Posted by -Virgil- View Post
    A lamp designed and intended as a rear fog lamp is appropriate as a rear fog lamp. A lamp not designed and intended as a rear fog lamp is usually not appropriate as a rear fog lamp.
    Understood. However:

    Quote Originally Posted by -Virgil- View Post
    You can parse into this with certain brake lights' performance overlapping with the rear fog performance requirements
    I guess I was wondering if there are cases where the overlap is 100%. Probably not.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Virgil- View Post
    please minimize your use of markup, ... You may not have meant to do so; sometimes if you compose a message in an external program, like MS Word, it adds a bunch of tags and garbage to your text that you might not necessarily notice when you paste it in here.)
    Sorry about that, I did indeed use an external program to draft the message. Hopefully this one is better since I did it all in the text editor on the forum.

  4. #4
    Moderator Alaric Darconville's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need recommendations for Kia Soul EV lighting enhancements

    Quote Originally Posted by shumanchu View Post
    My car has a configurable number of blinks (3, 5, or 7) when the turn signal stalk is tapped momentarily for lane changes
    Probably using a different flash technique-- or it could just be sending steady voltage to the flasher for X amount of time. Since the rapid flashing is a telltale for a burned out lamp, try removing a bulb to see if the flash is faster with it missing.

    For my own edification, is the reason to not use the 9012 bulbs because of the lack of "blacktop"? My assumption was that since these are projector fogs, the lack of blacktop would not produce excessive glare due to the light being focused and directed by the lens. If my assumption here is wrong, I would love to read any resources that could explain further.
    Even with better focus (assuming the projector lamp is great at its job and doesn't put excessive light in the glare zone) there's the matter of specular glare for other drivers when it bounces off a wet road, and the direct glare from the car changing angle from road surface variations, hills, and similar. One thing you could do to help bring that down is cover the outer lens of the fog lamp with 1mil Kapton tape. This will reduce the output by about 15% and leaves behind light that is less obnoxious. But remember, the light output is already going to be increased by much more than 15% in the first place so the Kapton tape may not bring you back to safe levels of glare, and you may need to turn them off when approaching vehicles get close to you. This may be why -Virgil- didn't make this same recommendation already (unless he hadn't thought of it but that's rare for him). I recommend the Kapton tape even if you can't upgrade the bulb, just to help your own eyes deal with the backscatter better.

    I found a Owner's manual that shows what the rear fog indicator light looks like. Additionally, the rear fog switch is located in the same place as the front fog switch on the turn stalk, it is simply a third position that the switch can go to. I will go try to see if the rear fog indicator light is present on my dash and report back. I don't know how to tell if it has a bulb to illuminate it, even if it is present. Additionally, I would have to source and purchase the OEM 3 position fog switch (probably have to buy the whole turn stalk?). I'll start searching.
    Most likely, all the wiring and everything is in place, and the bulb itself may be present in the cavity (it's cheaper to not attempt to program 'exceptions' to populating the bulb cavities when the goal is to stamp out the dashboards and the cars they go in cheaply and quickly). Also, if the rear fog lamp can be installed later as an option by the dealer, it saves them the hassle of installing that same bulb.

    You might be able to find the 3-position switch in a junkyard or on eBay.

    Just curious, why the red diode? The lens is red and the stock P21W bulb is white (as I'm sure you're aware of).
    White LEDs behind red lenses = Terrible brownish-pink light (or pinkish-brown light) that just isn't right. It's part of the thread on how to evaluate LED bulbs.
    Last edited by Alaric Darconville; 10-29-2020 at 02:40 PM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Need recommendations for Kia Soul EV lighting enhancements

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaric Darconville View Post
    try removing a bulb to see if the flash is faster with it missing.
    Removing a bulb had no effect on flash rate, so we're good there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaric Darconville View Post
    One thing you could do to help bring that down is cover the outer lens of the fog lamp with 1mil Kapton tape. This will reduce the output by about 15% and leaves behind light that is less obnoxious.
    Covering the lens with Kapton did produce a nice color, unfortunately it also produced some artifacts in the beam. Turns out it is hard to apply tape to a sphere. I ended up just taking it off. I'll leave the front fogs alone for now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaric Darconville View Post
    Most likely, all the wiring and everything is in place, and the bulb itself may be present in the cavity
    The rear fog indicator is present in the dash, and most likely has a bulb behind it as you point out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaric Darconville View Post
    You might be able to find the 3-position switch in a junkyard or on eBay.
    Found one on ebay, ordered from UK for 30 bucks incl shipping.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaric Darconville View Post
    White LEDs behind red lenses = Terrible brownish-pink light (or pinkish-brown light) that just isn't right. It's part of the thread on how to evaluate LED bulbs.
    Thanks for the info. Hadn't had a chance to read that post, now I have. I'll grab some Red and Amber ZEVOs from amazon or somewhere with a forgiving return policy in case they dont work out.

    The scrapyard in Norway responded with a quote for the two rear fog modules. It would be $198 USD incl shipping and VAT.

    The only piece of the puzzle left is the wiring from the harness connector to the assemblies themselves. Can anyone tell what kind of connector this is? I know there are some generic automotive pigtail connectors on ebay but I don't know what to search for. Here is the plug on the rear fog assy.

    Thanks again!!

  6. #6
    Moderator Alaric Darconville's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need recommendations for Kia Soul EV lighting enhancements

    Quote Originally Posted by shumanchu View Post
    Turns out it is hard to apply tape to a sphere[/URL]. I ended up just taking it off. I'll leave the front fogs alone for now.
    Yikes, that is a bit clunky

    Is that the outermost lens, or is there another one in front of that? If there's another in front, you can apply the tape to that.

    Or, you can carefully paint them with Dupli-Color MetalCast Yellow. Information on that and pics of results here.

    Not sure of the connector, but you could make your own with blade connectors and put it together with Sugru moldable glue (a silicone kindof stuff). Maybe -Virgil- knows the connector. You might also find that your car already has the wiring in it (like the '01 Corolla LE has the fog lamp pigtails preinstalled so it's a cinch for the dealer to install fog lamps later).

  7. #7

    Default Re: Need recommendations for Kia Soul EV lighting enhancements

    Quote Originally Posted by shumanchu View Post
    Removing a bulb had no effect on flash rate, so we're good there.
    Interesting...that is a violation of Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 108, which requires that the flash rate change conspicuously (much faster or slower than normal, or no flashing) in the event of a burnout, which is electrically the same as a removed bulb.


    The scrapyard in Norway responded with a quote for the two rear fog modules. It would be $198 USD incl shipping and VAT.
    They shouldn't be charging VAT on an order sent to the US.

    The only piece of the puzzle left is the wiring from the harness connector to the assemblies themselves. Can anyone tell what kind of connector this is?
    I feel like I've seen it before, but I can't put a name to it. It's not a Deutsch DT (those have round pins, not flat blades)...

  8. #8

    Default Re: Need recommendations for Kia Soul EV lighting enhancements

    I can't say for certain but I think I've seen that connector at my local Cost Less Auto supply. It may be a more common type that you could order from your local auto parts or maybe online. I want to say it was just a generic fog light connector but not sure.

    Obviously Kia's are not Volkswagens, however my 2001 Passat has the socket for rear fog lamps as part of the rear lamp assembly and all that is required to make them function is to insert a type 1156 bulb and make the connection on the back of the housing using a jumper wire.
    Last edited by -Virgil-; 10-31-2020 at 11:35 AM. Reason: Remove pointless whole-message quote

  9. #9

    Default Re: Need recommendations for Kia Soul EV lighting enhancements

    Quote Originally Posted by lightfooted View Post
    Obviously Kia's are not Volkswagens, however my 2001 Passat has the socket for rear fog lamps as part of the rear lamp assembly and all that is required to make them function is to insert a type 1156 bulb and make the connection on the back of the housing using a jumper wire.
    1156 is not correct, P21W is. An 1156 will light up, but many/most 1156s have plain brass bases, compared to the nickel plated base of a P21W (or a 3497). Accordingly, most sockets intended to use P21W bulbs rely on that nickel plating for corrosion resistance, and you can run into messy, ugly problems if you use a plain brass bulb in them. Unfortunately, the trend in American weatherlies (the formal name for those application guides where you can look up what bulb your car takes) has been to falsely claim equivalence of bulbs like 1156 and P21W, 1157 and P21/5W, 168 and W5W, etc.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Need recommendations for Kia Soul EV lighting enhancements

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaric Darconville View Post
    Is that the outermost lens, or is there another one in front of that? If there's another in front, you can apply the tape to that.
    Unfortunately, yes it is the outermost lens. There isn't a protective cover for the glass lens, just a bezel for styling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaric Darconville View Post
    You might also find that your car already has the wiring in it (like the '01 Corolla LE has the fog lamp pigtails preinstalled so it's a cinch for the dealer to install fog lamps later).
    [/QUOTE]

    Unfortunately, it does not have the wiring, just the plug at the rear bumper that would allow you to connect both lamps into the main wiring harness.

    I'll keep looking online for a nice waterproof plug that will fit, I'm sure there's one.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Need recommendations for Kia Soul EV lighting enhancements

    Quote Originally Posted by -Virgil- View Post
    Interesting...that is a violation of Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 108, which requires that the flash rate change conspicuously (much faster or slower than normal, or no flashing) in the event of a burnout, which is electrically the same as a removed bulb.
    Is the penalty for violating FMVSS108 so small that they would knowingly do this?


    Quote Originally Posted by -Virgil- View Post
    They shouldn't be charging VAT on an order sent to the US.
    Thanks for that info. The quote was actually "1484 NOK incl. shipping and excl. VAT." I just assumed I would have to pay the 25% VAT. I will make sure to have them not include VAT in the final bill.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Need recommendations for Kia Soul EV lighting enhancements

    Quote Originally Posted by shumanchu View Post
    Is the penalty for violating FMVSS108 so small that they would knowingly do this?
    No, and no way (respectively).

  13. #13
    Moderator Alaric Darconville's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need recommendations for Kia Soul EV lighting enhancements

    Quote Originally Posted by -Virgil- View Post
    Interesting...that is a violation of Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 108, which requires that the flash rate change conspicuously (much faster or slower than normal, or no flashing) in the event of a burnout, which is electrically the same as a removed bulb.
    Do the LED-compatible or "towing" flashers still follow that? I suppose they SHOULD because they themselves shouldn't render that required safety feature inoperative, otherwise they wouldn't be legal.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Need recommendations for Kia Soul EV lighting enhancements

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaric Darconville View Post
    Do the LED-compatible or "towing" flashers still follow that?
    No, for many years "heavy duty" or "towing" flashers have defeated the outage indication.

  15. #15
    Moderator Alaric Darconville's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need recommendations for Kia Soul EV lighting enhancements

    Quote Originally Posted by -Virgil- View Post
    No, for many years "heavy duty" or "towing" flashers have defeated the outage indication.
    Why are they legal if they disable a required safety function?

  16. #16

    Default Re: Need recommendations for Kia Soul EV lighting enhancements

    Because it would have been too expensive, complicated and difficult to come up with (and keep up with) a whole bunch of different flashers to accommodate all the possible combinations of tow vehicle and trailer turn signals as far as power draw is concerned. It's an imperfect solution for our imperfect world.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Need recommendations for Kia Soul EV lighting enhancements

    Quote Originally Posted by shumanchu View Post
    The only piece of the puzzle left is the wiring from the harness connector to the assemblies themselves. Can anyone tell what kind of connector this is? I know there are some generic automotive pigtail connectors on ebay but I don't know what to search for. Here is the plug on the rear fog assy.
    I asked the folks over at find pigtails.com and they were able to identify this as a G12A2 connector in about 10 seconds - incredible! Bummer is they want $80 for 1, and I would need 2..., plus another $80 for whatever kind of plug the wiring harness uses. I haven't been able to find a cheaper alternative yet.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Need recommendations for Kia Soul EV lighting enhancements

    EIGHTY DOLLARS!? That's insane. That sounds like they're buying them at full retail from Kia and marking them up. Which, if it's true, means there's a Kia part number for the connector. All you have to do...is find it.

    Update: Lookie here -- to my eye that looks like a dead-on match for the $80 G12A2. Or even cheaper by the 10-pak here, also look here.

    Update 2: I just went back on findpigtails and tried looking up connectors for a Camry, an Impala and a Taurus. Looks like these clowns sell everything for $80/ea. Now, how much money do you bet they're buying them in bulk quantity via those alibaba links I posted in update 1?
    Last edited by -Virgil-; 11-02-2020 at 06:58 PM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Need recommendations for Kia Soul EV lighting enhancements

    Quote Originally Posted by -Virgil- View Post
    EIGHTY DOLLARS!? That's insane. That sounds like they're buying them at full retail from Kia and marking them up. Which, if it's true, means there's a Kia part number for the connector. All you have to do...is find it.
    Well, maybe they need to charge $80 per pigtail in order to employ a team of people that can correctly identify a random automotive connector from a crappy image in less than 10 seconds. All joking aside, yes $80 is truly insane.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Virgil- View Post
    Update: Lookie here -- to my eye that looks like a dead-on match for the $80 G12A2. Or even cheaper by the 10-pak here, also look here.
    THANKS!!! Now this project is back in the feasible zone. Do you know if the black vs grey have any meaning (temperature/voltage etc)? I would probably pick up the 5 pack.

    Now I just need to remove the rear bumper to get access to the plugged-off wiring harness connector, then find that on aliexpress.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Need recommendations for Kia Soul EV lighting enhancements

    No idea. Considering the source, if I were you I'd order two or three types and then pick out the best ones when they arrive.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Need recommendations for Kia Soul EV lighting enhancements

    How's it going with your upgrades? I have the same car and was curious about upgrading the high beams :P It looks like the stock bulbs are "long life", maybe because you have to unbolt the bumper to get to them? Did you do the Daniel Stern upgrade?

    Otherwise I don't find the lighting too bad -- headlights are better than my 2021 Impreza, which are not great, but not as good as my 2005 Mazda 3 was, strangely.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Need recommendations for Kia Soul EV lighting enhancements

    Quote Originally Posted by charles is great View Post
    It looks like the stock bulbs are "long life", maybe because you have to unbolt the bumper to get to them? Did you do the Daniel Stern upgrade?
    No need to remove the front bumper, the high beams, low beams, side markers are accessible from just opening the hood, the fog lights are easily accessed by removing the fender guard in the wheel well. The rear lights are accessible via removing the tail light assembly. The only thing that requires removing the rear bumper is accessing the wiring harness to add the rear fog light assemblies and wiring harness.

    I did get upgraded H7 bulbs from Dan Stern for the high and low beams. The fogs I just put regular 9006 xtreme vision by philips. The side markers got 2886x from Dan Stern. The rear turn signals are potentially good candidates for Sylvania ZEVO 1156A, but I just haven't been able to get around to trying those. I very rarely drive this vehicle at night, so the new bulbs get little use, which is good because I still have yet to find a shop with a proper headlight aiming machine. I got them in the ballpark with the wall and tape method, but I really want them to get aimed right.

    The main reason I stopped pursuing the rear fog upgrade, is due to the 10 yr 100k mile warranty. The warranty covers the main EV battery, and messing with/adding wiring explicitly voids the warranty. I am counting on that warranty to give me a new EV battery as I am at about 81% SOH, and expect that to drop below 70% in the next year or so. Once the warranty is expired, then I'll think about adding rear fogs.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Need recommendations for Kia Soul EV lighting enhancements

    Quote Originally Posted by shumanchu View Post
    No need to remove the front bumper, the high beams, low beams, side markers are accessible from just opening the hood, the fog lights are easily accessed by removing the fender guard in the wheel well.
    Ah I was just going by what the manual says, which in some places hasn't been updated from the gas model. I hadn't checked for myself. Might be good to just try and get better bulbs then. I have the LED turn signals that are built into the mirror, so I can't complain about those, and I don't have use for fog lights much, so low beam and high beam performance would be what I care about.

    Magnuson Moss prevents your warranty from being invalidated by unrelated things, but you might need a lawyer if they try to, so it's up to you.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Need recommendations for Kia Soul EV lighting enhancements

    Quote Originally Posted by charles is great View Post
    Magnuson Moss prevents your warranty from being invalidated by unrelated things
    I haven't read the full text of the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act (1974), but I think that is not correct, are you sure? Got a cite?

    The Act does prevent the warrantor from making the warranty coverage conditional on the use of a particular brand of replacement part. So Kia couldn't legally say "You used a non-Kia turn signal light bulb (or whatever part), so your warranty is void".

  25. #25

    Default Re: Need recommendations for Kia Soul EV lighting enhancements

    Quote Originally Posted by -Virgil- View Post
    I haven't read the full text of the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act (1974), but I think that is not correct, are you sure? Got a cite?

    The Act does prevent the warrantor from making the warranty coverage conditional on the use of a particular brand of replacement part. So Kia couldn't legally say "You used a non-Kia turn signal light bulb (or whatever part), so your warranty is void".
    That's my understanding from many years of automotive forums, but, I'd always consult a lawyer before trusting internet advice

  26. #26
    Moderator Alaric Darconville's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need recommendations for Kia Soul EV lighting enhancements

    One of the major provisions of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is that warrantors cannot require that only branded parts be used with the product in order to retain the warranty:

    “No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade or corporate name” (15 U.S.C.A. 2302).

    However, in the case of "the warranty covers the main EV battery, and messing with/adding wiring explicitly voids the warranty", they could argue that you did something really BAD to the system (and would have to prove it)-- but since the lighting on many hybrids is still run from the 12V electrical system (using a standard starting battery and 12V alternator). I'm not sure if the Kia EV also has a standard starting battery, but obviously the lighting system would still be 12V (and you'll still probably have a 12V "accessory socket", which is simply a renamed cigar lighter socket without the cigar lighter).

    You could also always install a rear fog lamp and pull all the wires where you want them but don't hook them up permanently-- and use a cigar lighter plug to plug it in and unplug it as necessary. (Very bad UI, of course, and you'd need a telltale to be sure the lamp was really powered on and not just plugged in (like from having a blown fuse or just a loose connection).)
    Last edited by Alaric Darconville; 03-01-2021 at 02:27 PM.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Need recommendations for Kia Soul EV lighting enhancements

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaric Darconville View Post
    However, in the case of "the warranty covers the main EV battery, and messing with/adding wiring explicitly voids the warranty", they could argue that you did something really BAD to the system (and would have to prove it)-- but since the lighting on many hybrids is still run from the 12V electrical system (using a standard starting battery and 12V alternator). I'm not sure if the Kia EV also has a standard starting battery, but obviously the lighting system would still be 12V (and you'll still probably have a 12V "accessory socket", which is simply a renamed cigar lighter socket without the cigar lighter).
    The "have to prove it" part regarding the MM act is interesting and a commonly coined fallacy.

    If you think about it, who would they have to prove anything to? Certainly not the vehicle owner standing at the service counter yelling "prove it". It would have to be proven in court, at the initial time and expense of the vehicle owner. Meanwhile, the vehicle owner either ponies up for the repair up front so as to have a functional vehicle during possible legal proceedings or waits for a court case to be resolved while having a non functional vehicle. And even then the vehicle owner may not win the court case. Automakers have deep pockets and all the time in the world.

    I have a friend who is a service manager for a Honda dealer and he has been "told" several times by customers to prove the customers' mods caused issues thereby denying warranty from Honda. He basically tells the customer that there will be no warranty coverage and that the customer's remedy is the courts. The MM act is effectively useless for the consumer in situations like this.
    Last edited by Alaric Darconville; 03-01-2021 at 01:34 PM. Reason: Pared down quote

  28. #28
    Moderator Alaric Darconville's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need recommendations for Kia Soul EV lighting enhancements

    Quote Originally Posted by 747LeftSeat View Post
    He basically tells the customer that there will be no warranty coverage and that the customer's remedy is the courts. The MM act is effectively useless for the consumer in situations like this.
    Well, no-- it's working as designed. The plaintiff (customer) believes their rights under the Act were violated, so if they can't talk sense into the service manager or whoever, then they go to the courts. This is how it is with plenty of other laws. This is why there are courts. This is also why you shouldn't agree to "non-binding arbitration", although such clauses don't always protect the corporation that got people to sign them.

    But this is the CandlePowerForums, not the ArmchairLawyerForums. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act discussion ends now as that is not the topic.

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