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Thread: Corona Virus... the second wave

  1. #541
    Flashaholic* orbital's Avatar
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    Default Re: Corona Virus... the second wave

    +

    There should be a Serology Test done before any C19 vaccination. The rest is logic.


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  2. #542
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    Default Re: Corona Virus... the second wave

    Quote Originally Posted by markr6 View Post
    They're thinking you have about 5 months immunity after having covid. Weak.

    They say the vaccine can last up to a year. Is that a marketing guy "up to", or a scientist "up to"?



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  3. #543

    Default Re: Corona Virus... the second wave

    I keep thinking, since this virus is such a big deal, why couldn't the government make/pay/convince each manufacturer to just get it done. "Here's how we did it"...then have everyone else copy and pump out 10 million doses per day. It shouldn't be a cost issue considering the cash we're throwing around anyway.
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  4. #544
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    Default Re: Corona Virus... the second wave

    Quote Originally Posted by orbital View Post
    +

    There should be a Serology Test done before any C19 vaccination. The rest is logic.


    ...
    The healthcare system & labs can barely keep up with existing tests... to add that load simply is not possible for a wide variety of reasons. Sorry.
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  5. #545
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    Default Re: Corona Virus... the second wave

    Quote Originally Posted by markr6 View Post
    I keep thinking, since this virus is such a big deal, why couldn't the government make/pay/convince each manufacturer to just get it done. "Here's how we did it"...then have everyone else copy and pump out 10 million doses per day. It shouldn't be a cost issue considering the cash we're throwing around anyway.
    Because you keep running up against capacity issues regardless of how much money you can throw at it. Sort of like the ultra low temp freezers... worldwide shortage of them and the plants are already running 24x7x365 making them.
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  6. #546
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    Default Re: Corona Virus... the second wave

    Quote Originally Posted by markr6 View Post
    I keep thinking, since this virus is such a big deal, why couldn't the government make/pay/convince each manufacturer to just get it done. "Here's how we did it"...then have everyone else copy and pump out 10 million doses per day. It shouldn't be a cost issue considering the cash we're throwing around anyway.
    There would be the logistics of actually administering that many doses daily. No point in ramping up production capacity if the vaccine is just going to sit there in freezers for weeks or longer. We really need to start working very hard on how to actually vaccinate large numbers of people, like at least 1 million per day, with 2 million being even better. In order to reach herd immunity, not only do we need to vaccinate most of the population, but we need to do so within the time frame during which the vaccine is effective or the first people vaccinated will start to lose immunity.

    Then there's the issue of having enough trained people to actually administer the vaccine. That's another thing in short supply.

    For a while they were talking about the possibility of just putting some sort of vaccine in municipal water supplies. I'm gathering that's not possible?

  7. #547
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    Default Re: Corona Virus... the second wave

    +

    Someone would have to be a real ______ to have the natural anti-bodies, then waste a vaccination dose.

    Testing should then shift to serology.

  8. #548

    Default Re: Corona Virus... the second wave

    Quote Originally Posted by jtr1962 View Post
    There would be the logistics of actually administering that many doses daily. No point in ramping up production capacity if the vaccine is just going to sit there in freezers for weeks or longer. We really need to start working very hard on how to actually vaccinate large numbers of people, like at least 1 million per day, with 2 million being even better. In order to reach herd immunity, not only do we need to vaccinate most of the population, but we need to do so within the time frame during which the vaccine is effective or the first people vaccinated will start to lose immunity.

    Then there's the issue of having enough trained people to actually administer the vaccine. That's another thing in short supply.

    For a while they were talking about the possibility of just putting some sort of vaccine in municipal water supplies. I'm gathering that's not possible?

    That makes sense. I saw dentists were being trained to give shots. The ones puts in my mouth work great, why not?
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  9. #549
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    Default Re: Corona Virus... the second wave

    Quote Originally Posted by orbital View Post
    +

    Someone would have to be a real ______ to have the natural anti-bodies, then waste a vaccination dose.

    Testing should then shift to serology.
    And again. Complete lack of supplies for mass testing, not counting all the other issues w/ mass testing.

    Some of your lab machines are NOT designed to run 24x7. This is starting to cause issues w/ machines. You need downtime to perform maintenance and other tasks. These items can be delayed slightly but not forever.
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    Default Re: Corona Virus... the second wave

    While I am registered with the state and in line to get the COVID vaccine, still wondering about adverse effects. Has anyone seen numbers of how many problems have occurred with people getting these? All that seems to be out there are warnings not to take it if one is allergic to any of the ingredients of the vaccine. Localized redness, pain or discomfort may occur. Of course no one can say if there are any long term effects.

  11. #551
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    Default Re: Corona Virus... the second wave

    Quote Originally Posted by KITROBASKIN View Post
    While I am registered with the state and in line to get the COVID vaccine, still wondering about adverse effects. Has anyone seen numbers of how many problems have occurred with people getting these? All that seems to be out there are warnings not to take it if one is allergic to any of the ingredients of the vaccine. Localized redness, pain or discomfort may occur. Of course no one can say if there are any long term effects.

    I have read that one patient with a shellfish allergy had a severe reaction to the Moderna vaccine. He was able to be stabilized quickly with an Epi pen.

  12. #552

    Default Re: Corona Virus... the second wave

    Thereís been a few. Thatís normal for A LOT of vaccinations
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  13. #553
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    Default Re: Corona Virus... the second wave

    Quote Originally Posted by markr6 View Post
    They're thinking you have about 5 months immunity after having covid. Weak.

    They say the vaccine can last up to a year. Is that a marketing guy "up to", or a scientist "up to"?
    Did you read a specific article that gave these time frames? Iíve been curious about the length of time the vaccine is likely to be effective for.

  14. #554
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    Default Re: Corona Virus... the second wave

    Quote Originally Posted by nbp View Post
    Did you read a specific article that gave these time frames? Iíve been curious about the length of time the vaccine is likely to be effective for.
    Worth mentioning that effectiveness tapers off for all vaccines I am aware of. Am sure there are a few exceptions, but if smallpox were to reappear... it would be bad.
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  15. #555
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    Default Re: Corona Virus... the second wave

    Sure, but some last many years, even decades. If we have to go through this insanity every year... hah. People arenít going to keep that up. Thus, my curiousity.

  16. #556
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    Default Re: Corona Virus... the second wave

    Quote Originally Posted by turbodog View Post
    Worth mentioning that effectiveness tapers off for all vaccines I am aware of. Am sure there are a few exceptions, but if smallpox were to reappear... it would be bad.
    This is an interesting discussion of several smallpox attack scenarios.

    The federal government has indicated that voluntary vaccination of the general public may be approved after health care workers and first responders have been vaccinated. Increasing the number of vaccinated persons will inevitably lead to increases in morbidity and mortality due to vaccinia, and current evidence suggests net harm would result if smallpox vaccine were made available to the general public on a voluntary basis. Such a policy would pose a risk to both the vaccinees and their close contacts (who presumably have not consented to vaccinia exposure) with little or no benefit under many attack scenarios. If this complex public health decision is delegated to individual citizens, some individuals will be unable to weigh the risks and benefits for true informed consent. If real cases of smallpox ever occur in the United States, the risk-benefit assessment of mass vaccination may favor mass vaccination, and federal and state agencies are preparing for this possibility.
    Last edited by jtr1962; 01-14-2021 at 08:30 PM.

  17. #557
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    Default Re: Corona Virus... the second wave

    Read a fiction, but reasonably accurate, book about smallpox reappearing called 'the demon in the freezer'.
    This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time.
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  18. #558
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    Default Re: Corona Virus... the second wave

    Quote Originally Posted by nbp View Post
    Sure, but some last many years, even decades. If we have to go through this insanity every year... hah. People arenít going to keep that up. Thus, my curiousity.
    There are a ton of people studying just this. Am sure, as data comes out, that we will be informed.

    FYI, when I got my 1st dose yesterday I signed up for text message 'how are you doing' type communication. Get a text a day for a while, a reminder for dose #2, and followup texts (gradually declining) for the next 6-12 months or so.
    This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time.
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  19. #559

    Default Re: Corona Virus... the second wave

    Promising research on the effects of green tea inhibiting Covid
    Big butnotsomuch-burly

  20. #560

    Default Re: Corona Virus... the second wave

    Quote Originally Posted by KITROBASKIN View Post
    While I am registered with the state and in line to get the COVID vaccine, still wondering about adverse effects. Has anyone seen numbers of how many problems have occurred with people getting these? All that seems to be out there are warnings not to take it if one is allergic to any of the ingredients of the vaccine. Localized redness, pain or discomfort may occur. Of course no one can say if there are any long term effects.
    I've been speaking with some friends and family members in other states who are in the healthcare industry and have either gotten the shots, or have coworkers that have received them. At least in the 4-5 instances relayed to me, feeling a little drained for a day and maybe a headache for a few hours afterwards was about the extent (at least from these accounts) of their reactions to the vaccine... I know... there are two shots over time. I also found it interesting that those that had contracted the virus and recovered still received the vaccinations.

    Quote Originally Posted by nbp View Post
    Did you read a specific article that gave these time frames? Iíve been curious about the length of time the vaccine is likely to be effective for.
    Quote Originally Posted by turbodog View Post
    Worth mentioning that effectiveness tapers off for all vaccines I am aware of. Am sure there are a few exceptions, but if smallpox were to reappear... it would be bad.
    I remember the doctor of one of my elderly family members suggesting getting the flu shot in November, IIRC, because if taken too early it could start losing effectiveness by the time the cases became more prevalant... this was a few years ago. I think vaccines for some viruses might be good indefinitely, but I don't think that's the case for flu vaccines... hence the yearly vaccinations for "at risk" individuals, as well as the changing flu types. I could be wrong...

  21. #561
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    Default Re: Corona Virus... the second wave

    Has anyone else read about this?

    https://www.reportdoor.com/1-in-8-re...-months-study/

    Researchers at the UKís Leicester University and the Office for National Statistics found that out of 47,780 people discharged from the hospital, 29.4 percent were readmitted within 140 days. Of the total, 12.3 percent succumbed to the illness, it added.

    Thinking about this a little, since approximately 20% of covid-19 patients require hospitalization, and 1 out of 8 those die after supposedly recovering, this increases the mortality rate by about 2.5%, on top of the ~1.5% so far. That's an overall mortality rate of about 4%, which is at least 40 times that of the worst seasonal flus. Based on this, the lock downs and other measures to contain the virus certainly now seem justified.

    We also don't know about the long-term prospects of those who might not need to be readmitted to a hospital months later. Those people could still have years taken off their lives due to the damage covid-19 did to their bodies. I think we're going to be dealing with the repercussions of this for a very long time, even after we reach herd immunity via vaccinations.

  22. #562

    Default Re: Corona Virus... the second wave

    All of my wifeís patients even from early on have made full recoveries. Granted thatís just a small sample size. I donít know of anyone dying from it later on at all out of my circle.
    Big butnotsomuch-burly

  23. #563
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    Default Re: Corona Virus... the second wave

    BB were those folks you know left with side effects, such as scared lungs or damaged taste smell nerves?

  24. #564

    Default Re: Corona Virus... the second wave

    One of the guys I work with has scarred lungs. Boy is younger than me and Iím only 35. He is back to work but he is so weak.

    My 76 year old aunt is fine, no lung damage even though she has a plethora of health problems. Taste and smell fine after 3 months.

    88 year old neighbor and wife have no side effects whatsoever.

    The guys at the plant I used to manage (6 guys) 2 still havenít gained full taste/smell after 2 months. Others are fine.

    My wife hasnít said anything about long term side effects but Iíll ask this evening.
    Big butnotsomuch-burly

  25. #565
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    Default Re: Corona Virus... the second wave

    Quote Originally Posted by bigburly912 View Post
    All of my wifeís patients even from early on have made full recoveries. Granted thatís just a small sample size. I donít know of anyone dying from it later on at all out of my circle.
    At this stage here's my thinking. All the people referred to in the article who later died were part of the first wave, when we basically didn't know how to treat this thing. The people who "recovered" were likely left with much more severe damage than people who got it more recently, and had the benefit of better treatments.

    How many of your wife's patients were from the first wave? I'm asking because outside of the northeast, it largely didn't hit the rest of the country until mid summer. By then treatments were already markedly better, as evidenced by the lower mortality rate of hospitalized patients.

  26. #566
    Flashaholic* turbodog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Corona Virus... the second wave

    Quote Originally Posted by jtr1962 View Post
    At this stage here's my thinking. All the people referred to in the article who later died were part of the first wave, when we basically didn't know how to treat this thing. The people who "recovered" were likely left with much more severe damage than people who got it more recently, and had the benefit of better treatments.

    How many of your wife's patients were from the first wave? I'm asking because outside of the northeast, it largely didn't hit the rest of the country until mid summer. By then treatments were already markedly better, as evidenced by the lower mortality rate of hospitalized patients.
    This is what I thought also. And to go along with that, in the 'good news' category: cases are way up, but hospitalizations are not use as much, and neither are vent patients.

    Guess we are in the better treatment and less vulnerable part of this adventure.
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  27. #567

    Default Re: Corona Virus... the second wave

    In round 1 as it were retirement communities and nursing homes took the biggest brunt so of course fatailites were off the charts. That was during the 45 days to slow the spread that ended up going until around Memorial Day in the US. Things generally got pretty stable during the summer months.

    This time the general population is spreading it like any normal year of colds and flu so being a more healthy population is spreading it the natural result would be less people getting really sick from it. Being the case there are still a lot of people going to the hospital.

    And poof, just like that the second wave. There are treatments, yes but that is only a part of the equation as to why less people seem to sucumb to the virus.

    If you've watched cases in age groups you saw what I mean. Now that more and more elderly are surviving that is possibly from new good treatments. The rest is quite possibly due to the fact that the novel virus not being as deadly as those talking heads on tv want you to believe.
    John 3:16

  28. #568

    Default Re: Corona Virus... the second wave

    Wife said most of her early ons were nursing home patients. She had one that developed a heart condition after ďrecoveryĒ. Rest seem to be fine so far.
    Big butnotsomuch-burly

  29. #569
    *Flashaholic* PhotonWrangler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Corona Virus... the second wave

    I lost an aunt over the weekend due to Covid. She was in a nursing home and very frail in her upper 90s. Initially it appeared that she was recovering and they moved her from the Covid ward back to her regular area, but then she suddenly went downhill fast. From whet I understand so far there was kidney failure which might have precipitated other problems.

  30. #570

    Default Re: Corona Virus... the second wave

    Quote Originally Posted by markr6 View Post
    They're thinking you have about 5 months immunity after having covid. Weak.

    They say the vaccine can last up to a year. Is that a marketing guy "up to", or a scientist "up to"?



    Me 5 years ago: I don't shoot much anymore. Ammo is expensive now, I'll get some later.
    Me now: I NEED AMMO!!!!
    The 5 month deal is absolutely terrible media reporting. You need to dig into why they are stating this. Reporting like this is why they are no longer credible.


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