What I'd like to see from Arc

What I\'d like to see from Arc

I received an Arc LSH second with TSP-123 last night that I bought from B/S/T (for more than the direct price /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif), and I lined it up with my Arc LS-1, Arc4+ second, and Firefly.

It seems that these lights are getting bigger and more expensive, both of which seem to be negatives. When I got my LS-1 it was unique; now there are Luxeon flashlights coming out of the woodwork. I expect to see Luxeons in Wal-mart within a couple of years. (And speaking of Walmart, they have a lot less space devoted to Mini-Mags now, and a lot more LED lights. I'm sure Maglite has noticed and is feverishly working on their own LED lights.)

If Luxeons are becoming mass-market, where can Arc go? It can try to compete directly, but that seems tough, it's all about quantity and marketing, not quality and technology; I don't see it competing with established flashlight companies. So the only choice is niche markets and going upmarket. I think every niche market has manufacturers already (e.g. Surefire), who are also moving into LEDs/Luxeons.

What I'd like to see Arc go is back to its roots, and design for the enthusiast/hobbyist market. Specifically, what I would like is a flashlight system:

- Same size as firefly, but tailstanding (like FF2 I'd guess)
- As modular - can unscrew, pop out o-ring, replace sandwich, lens
- And here's the kicker: solderless luxeon replacement. Offer luxeons in a screw base or some other design that offers simple replaceability/upgradeability without soldering, while handling heat transfer properly.

Having simply replaceable components encourages people who have never soldered to buy more "bulbs", upgraded/multipurpose sandwiches. The expensive microprocessor in the Arc4+, for example, could be an upgrade option instead of something inflicted on the rest of us that just wanted high/low.
Making different heads/body tubes available also encourages mixing and matching. Start putting in colors and sell to people based on style/fashion. (Don't laugh, cell phones started out as big boxes, now you can get multi-thousand dollar diamond-encrusted ones).

What do others think? I was just waxing philosophical last night as I stared at my row of Arcs, none of which I carry anymore since I switched to a two-stage Firefly for EDC.

Re: What I\'d like to see from Arc

Your statement kind of assumes that technology will remain stagnant and that others will catch up. If on the other hand, technology keeps improving (which seems the norm these days), there will always be a niche for those on the cusp of it. Large companies will have difficulty keeping up since quantities of the latest and greatest will not be available to guarantee products for the masses. However, if technology does stagnate, it's possible to get swallowed by big fish unless you own the technology and then you get bought out.

Re: What I\'d like to see from Arc

Well, Wal-mart has some nice Buck Knives, but people still buy knives that are the same shape and function, but cost lots more, because the quality is higher. (no offense to buck they are great knives for the price!)

Re: What I\'d like to see from Arc

RE"it's all about quantity and marketing, not quality and technology;...So the only choice is niche markets and going upmarket. I think every niche market has manufacturers already..."
I hear a contradiction and some points I disagree with:
1) Quality & Technology are the "Upscale Niche" for Arc so, as long as it sticks to that vertical space it should be fine.
2)" it's all about quantity and marketing" is true if you are a Microsoft or a Dorcy not if you're an Arc or an Apple ( which refuses to compromise quality..or to die out)
3) Competition in the flashlight market is very hot right now- due mostly to a growing recession in the pocket knife and boot knife markets ( go ahead- call me crazy). However, once the dust settles, there will be Niche players catering to the lucky (or loyal) few and Volume operators that will not hand pick emitters, e-mail thier cutomers personally or care less about cutting edge technology. This is the natural evolution of technology in the consumer marketplace.Anywhere you look its Niche and Mass together. Smart operators cover both bases(Nikon, Porche/VW/Audi,Apple,Surefire,Dell,Palm,Sony,Nokia,etc- they have two or three lines of thier products /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Re: What I\'d like to see from Arc

Call me stupid, but how is Peter supposed to warranty a light that is fully modular and offers a user replaceable luxeon assembly?

Re: What I\'d like to see from Arc

I'd just like to touch on a point in the original post. I really like the AAA, but no recent products from ARC have succeeded in moving me "upscale" with ARC.

Re: What I\'d like to see from Arc

[ QUOTE ]
Ty_Bower said:
Call me stupid, but how is Peter supposed to warranty a light that is fully modular and offers a user replaceable luxeon assembly?

[/ QUOTE ]The same way Nikon warranties SLR cameras with interchangeable lenses. I don't see a big issue.

Re: What I\'d like to see from Arc

technology stagnant...I don't think so. Arc5 is coming out this year. The larger size might have to do with heat dissipation.

I want to see a "keep it simple on/off model", i'm not into all the levels.

There should be a cheaper on/off model and a high end model with all the levels.

Re: What I\'d like to see from Arc

IMO modular is a good concept for a premium LED flashlight. I have an LSH-S and LSHF-P. Both will probably be shelved on account of technological or output/efficiency obsolescence long before their bodies are more than slightly worn. It would be great to be able to keep up with LED advances and customize my light to work best for me with affordable upgrades and options. The Firefly comes closer than anything else to the ideal. Changeable optics, LED/electronics sandwiches, two-stage switch choices, and battery compartment options. Seems like a fairly short hop from those choices to microprocessor sandwiches and clicky tailswitch options. If only it could come from a conventional, parts-stocking, same-day-shipping manufacturer.

Re: What I\'d like to see from Arc

Technology stagnant... well, yes and no. The first Arc LS was head and shoulders above anything else its size. And compare a MiniMag with a sandwich or even an Opalec to the original - again, no comparison.

But when Minimag and others start putting out LEDs/Luxeons, there is not going to be nearly as much of a difference. Sure, maybe the Arc will be twice as bright, but while I am willing to pay $75 for a MiniMag with a LuxIII/sandwich rather than $10 for an incandescent Minimag, I doubt I'd pay that much if I could get a $20 Minimag at Walmart that was half as bright as the sandwich version. Well, OK, maybe I would, but I'm talking about the normal people carrying the Arc AAAs now; I'd guess Arc AAA sales will drop a lot when Maglite puts out an LED Solitaire.

As far as Quality and Technology being the niche for Arc, I'd have to disagree, at least on the quality part. I like my Arcs, but Surefires look at least as good. They were a little behind Arc in implementing Luxeons, but they're catching up fast, as are many other flashlight companies. And once a company switches over to Luxeons, it's a lot easier for them to integrate new Luxeons than it was for them to add them initially, so Arc's technology lead diminishes.

As far as the Arc5 goes... well, that's delayed. And it doesn't really thrill me. A 5w light? Sounds like it's getting even further from the original LS-1 EDC. I'm looking forward to getting the new Fireflies - it'll be my new EDC, replacing my current Firefly, and is likely to be for the indefinite future. I know if a new Luxeon comes along I can always replace the LED or at worst buy a new sandwich with it installed.

Re: What I\'d like to see from Arc

i can tell you from experience, that designing a light with interchangable optics, luxeons, and converters is not easy, and will result in extra bulk, compared to non-interchangable ones.
it will also be less robust, since in the arc4, everything is potted.

i love my modulight, but i dont' change optics or luxeons or converters much. it's more of a novelty thing /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Re: What I\'d like to see from Arc

I think the specifics that you would like to see in a light are marketable. There's definately a segment of the market that it would appeal to. Maybe you could pitch it to a manufacturer or start your own company?

ARC was THE company that brought the Luxeon powered flashlight to market. It has been and still is the leader in technology. In fact, it could be said that if not for ARC, there wouldn't be mass marketed Luxeons available in the marketplace yet.

Some companies are about quantity and marketing (and hype). ARC is about quality, technology, and usefulness (and integrity). It has not strayed from its roots.

If it can't compete with larger companies, why is there a backlog on orders for $180 flashlights?

As more and more Luxeon lights are introduced to the market and more people buy them and become aware of the technology, more people will want to step up to even better quality lights. As the market grows, ARC will grow.

Peter has pretty much said that if he has to mass market lights to survive, he'll get out the business. He seems to be content with being the best, not the biggest. He continues to design lights that appeal to his flashaholic nature and knowledge and that exhibit his personality. Will they appeal to everyone? No, that's why there are other manufacturers. But, he seems to have a pretty good following ........... and it's growing.

Re: What I\'d like to see from Arc

kitelights--

Well Said! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Re: What I\'d like to see from Arc

You're wright Kitelights..

Re: What I\'d like to see from Arc

Simple - a brighter AAA with smoother beam. I'd give up half the run time without a second thought.

Re: What I\'d like to see from Arc

I agree Arc hasn't strayed from its roots in terms of quality and integrity. In terms of technology and usefulness, however, I think it has. Look at the Arc LS-1 versus the Arc4+. We've gone from an elegant, minimalist design (in terms of both form and function) to a bloated one (again, both form and function). I'd still be EDCing an Arc if Arc had stuck to its roots - instead, all my Arcs are in storage while the Firefly gets the EDC spot.

Re: What I\'d like to see from Arc

Roth,

It sounds like you have some real-world experience with these matters, but the Firefly seems to have pulled off most of your points despite a short and low-budget development cycle. Turned down Fraen and NX05 optics are both available and easy to switch out. Maybe later on someone will come out with optics that don't have to be turned down. Every Firefly will accept any dat2zip sandwich ever made, though some need a blob of solder added. I believe that you can even custom order a sandwich with your choice of driver type and output. Extra bulk? The Firefly is the smallest and lightest 123/Luxeon package to my awareness, so its modularity appears to have not hurt it. Durability? The sandwich components are potted and extremely durable. People concerned about the stock UCL lens should be able to switch it out to Lexan.

IMO there would be a good market for a light like the Firefly shipped in a compact case with compartments for spare batteries, sandwiches, optics, and two-stage switches. Sandwich and optic changes are now tool-free and almost as fast as cycling through the Arc4 menus. Toss in a MM+Lux3T and Fraen when you expect throw to be needed. Go with the MMLiteLux3T and NX05 for longer run and better spread when camping. Churning out 10,000 of them for sale through premium catalogs, and (regrettably) cutting a few corners, would bring the unit cost pretty far down. People could buy a "starter" set for less than $50. Maybe as little as $30. Later on they could move up to premium sandwiches, two-stage switching, and other options. Different colors components. Battery compartments for rechargeables. Tailswitch compartments that control microchip sandwiches much like the Arc4. Most of the R&D has already been done. All that is needed is someone to pull the deal together.

Re: What I\'d like to see from Arc

dave, you're wright (sorry, bad pun /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif). the firefly does that, but in my design, i wanted everything to be modular, and i wanted everything to be extremely robust.

with the sandwhich, the emitter and converter are stuck together, so if you change one, you need to change both. also, with my design, i decided that heatsinking was a main priority, so i made an integral heatsink. (meaning that the entire head is a heatsink, mclux style).
this way, the heatsinking is far better than any sandwhich, and both emitter and converter could be changed independantly.

unfortunately, i only have a lathe, so my design was limited to what i could make myself. if i had acess to injection molding equipment, i could have made custom pieces, resulting in a much smaller setup.

as a rule, no matter how you do it, making things modular will reduce durability or size in one way or another.
in addition, the firefly is a great design, and i'd love to have one, but it has problems of it's own, which i personally feel make it unsuitable for somone who doesn't know what they're doing. overheating, making sure the ground path is clean, etc. these are things you don't have to worry about in an arc ls or arc4.

also, the arc4 isn't modular, but the brigtness ranges are almost as good (better?). again, i can speak from experience saying that i dont' change the emitters or converters much in my modular light, but being able to change brightness at the touch of a button is easy, and i could see myself using it a lot!

Re: What I\'d like to see from Arc

It sounds like you're hooked on the smallest form factor available. That's fine; you won't hear any criticism from me about that. I have 7 of Wayne's sandwiches and I think that he's the closest thing to a god that CPF has. Without his contributions, we probably wouldn't have 80% of the Luxeon lights on this forum that we now have, including ARC. But a luxeon light using a sandwich just isn't in the same ballpark as an ARC 4 and a smaller than an ARC Luxeon light doesn't make the ARC a regressive design.

How can you possibly say that the ARC 4 is not the most technologically advanced Luxeon light of it's size, much less more so than a sandwich?

Bloated? It is barely larger than its predecessor, if at all. It offers the most efficient and versatile power management available in a flashlight. It offers 4 instantly available power levels, power regulation, thermal regulation, multi-battery support (2.0V - 6.75V), calibrated brightness, waterproof, lens interchangeability, a lifetime warranty and more. All for a meer 12.5% price increase over it's predecessor ($20).

It blows me away that someone can say that ARC has strayed from producing the most technologically advanced, cutting edge lights designed for usefulness.

Is it just me that's bothered by this? I hear somone saying, "Peter, you've lost it. You're way off base. You're making stagnant, impractical, overpriced lights. You haven't thought out your market strategy, and you're not going to able to compete. If you don't make my modular design light system............."

I wonder if we were talking to each other face to face, instead of behind a computer screen, if we'd still say the things that we do?

Re: What I\'d like to see from Arc

kite, i agree.

the arc4 may be a little larger than the ls, and it may be a little more complex to use, but i don't think that detracts!

i've always thought arc strived to make the best edc lights, and while smallness is certainly a key issue, the slight extra bulk of the arc4 is like carrying 5 different flashilghts!

also, now that peters to the point where he can put tint control, battery detectors, thermal sensing, etc in an edc flashlight, i think he'd rather avoid going back to a "dumb" flashlight, even if it is firefly size or smaller. there are just soooooo many things that the arc4 has going for it.

in fact, i think the arc4 is the most arcish light around /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif