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Thread: Acebeam W50 LEP flashlight first view - New pics added!

  1. #1

    Default Acebeam W50 LEP flashlight first view - New pics added!

    This is the first image I've seen of the Acebeam W50. I believe its a frame grab from a video on their FB page. Check out the cooling fan.

    My first thought is that since its huge, does this mean that instead of a larger or more powerful laser excited phosphorus emitter they just changed the optics? Is the added throw due only to a larger better focused lense like a deeper reflector with LED?




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    Last edited by kolchak; 02-01-2021 at 05:20 PM.

  2. #2

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    Default Re: Acebeam W50 LEP flashlight first view

    Nice, but the W50 is not for public distribution.
    2 Cor 5:6-8

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    Default Re: Acebeam W50 LEP flashlight first view

    That is the same cooling fan they use on the X70.

    I don't think you'll see any LEP lights above the w30's 1,450,000 candela sold to the public. Other makers will only sell more intense lights to law enforcement. It's really at the level where you could blind someone, getting to Class 3B laser power making it to your retina.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Acebeam W50 LEP flashlight first view

    Quote Originally Posted by richbuff View Post
    Nice, but the W50 is not for public distribution.
    I'm not sure what this means. Does it mean Acebeam will not be making it available to non-military and police departments?

    Does it just mean the pics or video is private for now until it officially comes out?

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorMemory View Post
    That is the same cooling fan they use on the X70.

    I don't think you'll see any LEP lights above the w30's 1,450,000 candela sold to the public. Other makers will only sell more intense lights to law enforcement. It's really at the level where you could blind someone, getting to Class 3B laser power making it to your retina.
    Hmm. I've seen used military lights for sale in gun stores. Its not illegal to buy one.

    That does not look like it is designed for military use. - not for combat operations at the very least. It doesn't look like it's weapons or vehicle mountable for starters and the handle and little fan are far too flimsy. The buttons are tiny...
    Last edited by kolchak; 12-19-2020 at 07:16 AM.

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    Default Re: Acebeam W50 LEP flashlight first view

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorMemory View Post
    That is the same cooling fan they use on the X70.

    I don't think you'll see any LEP lights above the w30's 1,450,000 candela sold to the public. Other makers will only sell more intense lights to law enforcement. It's really at the level where you could blind someone, getting to Class 3B laser power making it to your retina.
    The candela alone isn't an issue at these levels, you for instance have the Maxabeam with 12 Mcd that has been on the open market for decades. The laser part on the other hand can be a problem many places due to mostly old regulations that hasn't been updated to allow for the LEP technology.

    Edit, I would also like to remind everyone that "only available to law enforcement" (or military) has been a classic and very popular way to create buzz and market your product for when it "magically" becomes available to the public after all...
    Last edited by PolarLi; 12-25-2020 at 10:07 AM.
    I've got lux in different area codes.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Acebeam W50 LEP flashlight first view

    Quote Originally Posted by kolchak View Post
    My first thought is that since its huge, does this mean that instead of a larger or more powerful laser excited phosphorus emitter they just changed the optics? Is the added throw due only to a larger better focused lense or deeper reflector?
    The more robust cooling solution with larger battery pack makes me think otherwise. Not too much larger optic, but substantially more powerful laser.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Acebeam W50 LEP flashlight first view

    Quote Originally Posted by twistedraven View Post
    The more robust cooling solution with larger battery pack makes me think otherwise. Not too much larger optic, but substantially more powerful laser.
    Interesting. I was thinking that it behaved like an LED - deeper reflector resulting in more lux and subsequent heat.

    If it is a more powerful laser, is it possible that what other posters have mentioned is true - that the laws governing lasers haven't yet made an exception for LEP technology and so because of a stronger laser the W50 is facing regulatory hurdles?

  8. #8

    Default Re: Acebeam W50 LEP flashlight first view

    Quote Originally Posted by kolchak View Post
    Interesting. I was thinking that it behaved like an LED - deeper reflector resulting in more lux and subsequent heat.
    I don't know how the W50 is made but all the other LEP lights out there do not use a reflector.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Acebeam W50 LEP flashlight first view

    Quote Originally Posted by Magio View Post
    I don't know how the W50 is made but all the other LEP lights out there do not use a reflector.
    More LUX, larger beam, more heat - using a reflector TIR lense or other optics. I'm asking if here its achieved via something other than a stronger laser. Mackey?

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    Default Re: Acebeam W50 LEP flashlight first view

    Quote Originally Posted by kolchak View Post
    Hmm. I've seen used military lights for sale in gun stores. Its not illegal to buy one.
    No legalities involved. The w50 is simply intense enough to permanently blind someone when flashed into their eyes. The maker of it and two other high-powered LEP lights will only sell with a letter from a police department or the like. They basically don't want to be sued by everyone blinded by one.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Acebeam W50 LEP flashlight first view

    Quote Originally Posted by PolarLi View Post
    The candela alone isn't an issue at these levels, you for instance have the Maxabeam with 12 Mcd that has been on the open market for decades. The laser part on the other hand can be a problem many places due to mostly old regulations that hasn't been updated to allow for the LEP technology.
    From https://www.peakbeam.com/resources/faq/

    ANSI Risk Group 3. Warning.
    Visible and infrared radiation emitted from this searchlight.
    Permanent eye damage can result. Avoid direct exposure to the beam.
    Do not look directly into the searchlight beam. Exposure of the eye to either the direct searchlight beam or a beam reflected from a flat mirror-like surface can cause permanent eye injury to the unprotected eye. Follow the same precaution even when an Infrared Filter is installed on the searchlight.

    The Maxabeam will blind you. The W50 will blind you. They have the cajones to sell to the public, they are cruisin for a brusin.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Acebeam W50 LEP flashlight first view

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorMemory View Post
    No legalities involved. The w50 is simply intense enough to permanently blind someone when flashed into their eyes. The maker of it and two other high-powered LEP lights will only sell with a letter from a police department or the like. They basically don't want to be sued by everyone blinded by one.
    Do you think this was their original plan for this model?

    I'm not sure what use a police department would have for this outside of maybe long range search and rescue. As I mentioned earlier, it doesnt look like it's designed for tactical or military use. In a tactical situation like a raid the same issue - that it might accidentally blind someone, applies. Police departments are sued a lot.

    It doesn't look like it would really withstand any military applications either. It's carrying function is via a shoulder strap. The smallish control buttons are located in the front towards the bezel. There is no form integrated vehicle or weapons mounting capability. The lens and bezel are probably (LEP style) fixed making replacement in the field impossible. The cooling fan would likely not withstand forcible impact. In other words it would need to be built to mil spec.

    If this is indeed true that John Q Public won't have an easy way to purchase one, then who will?
    Last edited by kolchak; 01-02-2021 at 03:56 PM.

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    Flashaholic PolarLi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Acebeam W50 LEP flashlight first view

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorMemory View Post
    The Maxabeam will blind you. The W50 will blind you. They have the cajones to sell to the public, they are cruisin for a brusin.
    The sun will blind you too. Doesn't come with warnings labels. Here is the thing, it all boils down to distance, and it doesn't take much distance at these levels either. A "measly" 1 Mcd light at 1 meter distance, is MORE intense (more lux) than a 12 Mcd light at 3.5 meter. To neutralize the difference between a 1 Mcd and 2 Mcd light, you only need 41 cm or 16"

    Permanent eye damage can result. Avoid direct exposure to the beam.
    Key words are "can" and "avoid"
    Last edited by PolarLi; 01-04-2021 at 11:40 AM.
    I've got lux in different area codes.

  14. #14
    Flashaholic DoctorMemory's Avatar
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    Default Re: Acebeam W50 LEP flashlight first view

    Quote Originally Posted by PolarLi View Post
    THere is the thing, it all boils down to distance,
    True. There is a significant difference in degradation with distance between lights like the Maxabeam and any LEP light. They measured their 12 Mcd value by focusing the beam as tight as it goes and then measuring the candlepower right at the light. Even on the tightest beam it will quickly spread with distance. You could be blinded with it set for a tight beam and sticking your eye right at the light. But shine it on people 50' away and the intensity has dropped way off, even with a tight (for it) beam divergence.

    LEP lights have very low angles of beam spread. The distance is not as big of a factor when you have a beam that diverges at 1.8°. A small distance may diverge the Maxabeam to a safe intensity, but the same is not true for an LEP. LEP lights brighter than the W30 can cause eye damage at great distance. It really starts to act like a laser's coherent beam, distance no longer provides safety.

    BMW offers a single LEP high-beam headlight option, but it is heavily interlocked to only shine when the car senses their is no opposing traffic.

    This is beginning to wander as threads do.

    The question was would the W50 be offered to the public, and if not, why? I have pointed out that the beam intensity (even at distance) has become dangerous. They and two other makers of higher intensity LEP lights I know require a letter on department letterhead requesting the purchase (just like is required for the top level OC/CS teargas purchases). And they do this because the lights can rather easily blind someone and they don't want the lawsuits. No laws against it, just lawyers. And, yes, this is the plan for these brighter LEPs, for LE sales from the three makers I know of.

    Could you get one if you really wanted it? Yes. But I once purchased a 5 Watt blue laser, complete with safety glasses. I tried it out a few times, saw how far it would reach out. But I realized just how bad an idea of flashing it around outdoors was; it now sits in its case. I think you'd find the same lack of usefulness with a really bright LEP light. You really want to shine anything around in public that can blind people?

    BTW, also a W40. https://1lumen.com/wp-content/upload...ights-2020.jpg
    Last edited by DoctorMemory; 01-04-2021 at 05:04 AM.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Acebeam W50 LEP flashlight first view

    This page is current:
    LED & Laser Classification
    An overview of the LED & Laser Classification System in EN 60825-1 and IEC 60825-1


    In 2001 the standard governing the safety of laser products in Europe (EN) and Internationally (IEC), was substantially revised and the Classification system was overhauled. This resulted in the introduction of three new laser classes (1M, 2M and 3R) and the abolition of Class 3A. Below is a brief description of each of the current laser classes.

    The 60825-1 standards apply equally to lasers and LEDs. In most places we have used the word “laser”, but it can be replaced by “LED”. Generally speaking LEDs would be in the lower Classes (1, 1M, 2, 2M, 3R), but very exceptionally may be Class 3B. At the time of writing we are not aware of any Class 4 LEDs*.

    (more) https://www.lasermet.com/resources/a...d-iec-60825-1/


    These bright LED lights fall under the same classifications as lasers. Doesn't matter if the light is coherent, how much will get to your eyeball and pupil.

    Acebeam uses this classification for the W30: FDA/CE/RoHS/EN60825-1/CLASS 2M:

    If they were to determine the brighter lights actaully met the Class 3 (was 3B) laser standards then they would fall under the same restrictions that Class 3 lasers have (which are rarely enforced anymore).
    Last edited by DoctorMemory; 01-04-2021 at 05:26 AM.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Acebeam W50 LEP flashlight first view

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorMemory View Post
    True. There is a significant difference in degradation with distance between lights like the Maxabeam and any LEP light. They measured their 12 Mcd value by focusing the beam as tight as it goes and then measuring the candlepower right at the light. Even on the tightest beam it will quickly spread with distance. You could be blinded with it set for a tight beam and sticking your eye right at the light. But shine it on people 50' away and the intensity has dropped way off, even with a tight (for it) beam divergence.

    LEP lights have very low angles of beam spread. The distance is not as big of a factor when you have a beam that diverges at 1.8°. A small distance may diverge the Maxabeam to a safe intensity, but the same is not true for an LEP. LEP lights brighter than the W30 can cause eye damage at great distance. It really starts to act like a laser's coherent beam, distance no longer provides safety.

    BMW offers a single LEP high-beam headlight option, but it is heavily interlocked to only shine when the car senses their is no opposing traffic.

    This is beginning to wander as threads do.

    The question was would the W50 be offered to the public, and if not, why? I have pointed out that the beam intensity (even at distance) has become dangerous. They and two other makers of higher intensity LEP lights I know require a letter on department letterhead requesting the purchase (just like is required for the top level OC/CS teargas purchases). And they do this because the lights can rather easily blind someone and they don't want the lawsuits. No laws against it, just lawyers. And, yes, this is the plan for these brighter LEPs, for LE sales from the three makers I know of.

    Could you get one if you really wanted it? Yes. But I once purchased a 5 Watt blue laser, complete with safety glasses. I tried it out a few times, saw how far it would reach out. But I realized just how bad an idea of flashing it around outdoors was; it now sits in its case. I think you'd find the same lack of usefulness with a really bright LEP light. You really want to shine anything around in public that can blind people?

    BTW, also a W40. https://1lumen.com/wp-content/upload...ights-2020.jpg
    I don't know where you got your specs from but they are wrong. The Maxabeam has a minimum beam angle of 1 degree, nearly half that of the W30. On top of this the Maxabeam is about 2 to three times as bright as the brightest currently available LEPs at around 1500 lumens. So with half the beam width and 3 times the output, the chance of eye damage from accidental exposure is way way higher with the Maxabeam Vs any currently available LEP.

  17. #17
    Flashaholic PolarLi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Acebeam W50 LEP flashlight first view

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorMemory View Post
    There is a significant difference in degradation with distance between lights like the Maxabeam and any LEP light.
    No. Lux is lux, in fact, a typical reflector light will "benefit" from distance. But that belong to the more technical aspects of the subject.

    They measured their 12 Mcd value by focusing the beam as tight as it goes and then measuring the candlepower right at the light.
    No, they measure it at 25 meters: https://www.peakbeam.com/resources/faq/ If they measured right at the light they would get less than 12 Mcd, but again, technical stuff.

    LEP lights have very low angles of beam spread. The distance is not as big of a factor when you have a beam that diverges at 1.8°
    Distance has the same effect on a 0.1 degree beam as on a 100 degree beam. Read up on the inverse square law.
    I've got lux in different area codes.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Acebeam W50 LEP flashlight first view

    I wonder if the W40 and W50 step down like Acebeam's 'publically available' lights do (and the W30 did.) I have and use an Acebeam K30GT quite a bit - best in its size - but I asked Vinh to change the driver so I can run it in turbo for as long as I want and that makes a huge difference.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Acebeam W50 LEP flashlight first view

    Quote Originally Posted by richbuff View Post
    Nice, but the W50 is not for public distribution.
    So how do we get one?

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorMemory View Post
    That is the same cooling fan they use on the X70.

    I don't think you'll see any LEP lights above the w30's 1,450,000 candela sold to the public. Other makers will only sell more intense lights to law enforcement. It's really at the level where you could blind someone, getting to Class 3B laser power making it to your retina.
    Yeah reflected LED lights are hitting 2 million Lux, they are a lot larger but same thing and no warnings.

    Quote Originally Posted by PolarLi View Post
    The candela alone isn't an issue at these levels, you for instance have the Maxabeam with 12 Mcd that has been on the open market for decades. The laser part on the other hand can be a problem many places due to mostly old regulations that hasn't been updated to allow for the LEP technology.

    Edit, I would also like to remind everyone that "only available to law enforcement" (or military) has been a classic and very popular way to create buzz and market your product for when it "magically" becomes available to the public after all...
    Yeah I how new standards are made
    Fenix LD01 R4, E05 R4, PD31, TK20, TK35, E11, Jetbeam BC10, BC25, RRT-0, iTP A3 R5, A3 Ti S2, 4Sevens Quark X 123^2, Sunwayman V10R Ti (lost RIP), Surefire G2X Tactical, ThruNite TN31vn, Mag-Lite XL50, Mag 2D XP-E

  20. #20

    Default Re: Acebeam W50 LEP flashlight first view

    Fenix LD01 R4, E05 R4, PD31, TK20, TK35, E11, Jetbeam BC10, BC25, RRT-0, iTP A3 R5, A3 Ti S2, 4Sevens Quark X 123^2, Sunwayman V10R Ti (lost RIP), Surefire G2X Tactical, ThruNite TN31vn, Mag-Lite XL50, Mag 2D XP-E

  21. #21

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    Default Re: Acebeam W50 LEP flashlight first view

    Quote Originally Posted by ScaryFatKidGT View Post
    Yeah, this light and the X65GT: Currently unobtainable.
    2 Cor 5:6-8

  22. #22

    Shrug Re: Acebeam W50 LEP flashlight first view

    Quote Originally Posted by richbuff View Post
    Yeah, this light and the X65GT: Currently unobtainable.
    Yes. That X65GT should be an SBT90.2 light.

    I am also wondering what happened to the G10 LEP weapon light. That one was on the website for a while but it disappeared...

  23. #23
    Flashaholic* Mark2's Avatar
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    Arrow Re: Acebeam W50 LEP flashlight first view

    Quote Originally Posted by PolarLi View Post
    Distance has the same effect on a 0.1 degree beam as on a 100 degree beam. Read up on the inverse square law.
    The effective origin of the light is not at the LED/LEP with non-isotropic light sources such as the flashlights discussed in this thread, but at a virtual position behind the actual light source on the beam axis, with the distance depending on the beam angle. This results in the effective distance from the light source doubling further away from a flashlight with a narrow beam angle than it would from a flashlight with a wide beam angle. Because of this, a flashlight with a very narrow beam angle is a lot more dangerous than one of the same lumens output with a wide beam angle, as it is able to damage someone's eyes much further away.
    As I said before, I never repeat myself.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Acebeam W50 LEP flashlight first view

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark2 View Post
    Because of this, a flashlight with a very narrow beam angle is a lot more dangerous than one of the same lumens output with a wide beam angle, as it is able to damage someone's eyes much further away.
    Where did I say equal amount of lumens? I thought it was both obvious and implied you have to compare two lights with the same candela/throw but different beam angle. For all practical purposes, a 1 Mcd "narrow beam" light will throw exactly as far as any 1 Mcd "wide beam" light. The latter light will obviously have a lot more lumens, but the throw and capability to damage someones eyes will be the same. As I said, lux is lux, heck, I have it in my signature
    Last edited by PolarLi; 01-19-2021 at 11:51 AM.
    I've got lux in different area codes.

  25. #25
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    Cool Re: Acebeam W50 LEP flashlight first view

    This discussion is getting more complicated than the subject matter.

    A light source, any light source has a power rating, the amount of luminous flux produced, typically in lumens. (The lumen is the SI derived unit of luminous flux, a measure of the total quantity of visible light emitted by a source per unit of time.) The power output of a light source may or may not say anything about eye exposure danger. A 100mW laser is more dangerous to the eye than a 100W light bulb. The cautions with high power levels are more along the lines of not setting your pocket or house on fire.

    A light source will also have a specification of illuminance or intensity, how much power is being applied to a specified area. It can be lux (one lux is equal to one lumen per square meter.) It could also be foot-candles, candelas, or candlepower. This is what determines how much light will come in thru your pupils and land on your retinas and possibly damage them. It doesn't matter to anyone (including Federal regulations) what the light source is. LED lights are treated exactly the same as lasers. It doesn't matter what power the source is, how much light intensity will your retina be exposed to? Lasers use low power levels but have such little beam spread that high intensity light could get thru your pupil.

    The LEP has a very tight beam. Because of this an LEP can be much more dangerous to use in public than an LED or arc-lamp of equal or even greater intensity. You can take a portable short-arc lamp light and narrow its beam to the tightest setting and then take a lux reading right in front of the light, get a big reading. But step 10' away and the reading will quickly drop off. With an LEP the danger of exposure to high intensity light doesn't drop off dramatically with distance in the same way. It will still have a significant amount of lux left after a distance where an arc light with the same measured lux has dissipated to a safe level. This is why you may see some incandescent or short-arc lights with 12,000,000 candlepower offered for sale to the public, but no LEPs (at this time) above 1,500,000 candle power.

    Think of an LEP as a white laser, seriously, and respect it as one would a laser. No coherent light but the same sort of tight beam that makes even low power levels dangerous at considerable distances. The W30 brags that it can illuminate object farther away than you can see. The W300 will likely blind people farther away than you can see.
    Last edited by DoctorMemory; 01-20-2021 at 07:06 AM.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Acebeam W50 LEP flashlight first view

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorMemory View Post
    Because of this an LEP can be much more dangerous to use in public than an LED or arc-lamp of equal or even greater intensity. You can take a portable short-arc lamp light and narrow its beam to the tightest setting and then take a lux reading right in front of the light, get a big reading. But step 10' away and the reading will quickly drop off. With an LEP the danger of exposure to high intensity light doesn't drop off dramatically with distance in the same way. It will still have a significant amount of lux left after a distance where an arc light with the same measured lux has dissipated to a safe level. This is why you may see some incandescent or short-arc lights with 12,000,000 candlepower offered for sale to the public, but no LEPs (at this time) above 1,500,000 candle power.

    Think of an LEP as a white laser, seriously, and respect it as one would a laser. No coherent light but the same sort of tight beam that makes even low power levels dangerous at considerable distances. The W30 brags that it can illuminate object farther away than you can see. The W300 will likely blind people farther away than you can see.
    No every bit of this is wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorMemory View Post
    Because of this an LEP can be much more dangerous to use in public than an LED or arc-lamp of equal or even greater intensity.
    Nope. The dangers that come from given intensities are the same no matter the light source( not accounting for possible UV output from the short-arc).

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorMemory View Post
    You can take a portable short-arc lamp light and narrow its beam to the tightest setting and then take a lux reading right in front of the light, get a big reading. But step 10' away and the reading will quickly drop off.
    No this is wrong. If you have a short arc lamp like the Maxabeam and you take a lux reading at one meter in front of the light you will get a significantly lower number than if you take it at 25m ( the distance the Maxabeams lux is measured at) and convert back to 1 meter.

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorMemory View Post
    With an LEP the danger of exposure to high intensity light doesn't drop off dramatically with distance in the same way. It will still have a significant amount of lux left after a distance where an arc light with the same measured lux has dissipated to a safe level.
    Intensity is intensity no matter the light source, and the rate at which intensity drops off is the same for all light sources of a given intensity.

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorMemory View Post
    This is why you may see some incandescent or short-arc lights with 12,000,000 candlepower offered for sale to the public, but no LEPs (at this time) above 1,500,000 candle power.
    No thats not at all the reason why you see incandescent lights with a 12million CP rating. There are no true 12million CP handheld incandescent lights available. If you see one labeled as such its either a lie or they are using some non-standard way of measuring candlepower that results in grossly inflated numbers. And the only handheld short arc light available that is rated at 12million CP is the Maxabeam and its rating is accurate, and it throws way farther than any of the 1.5 million CP LEPs, and is far more dangerous than any of them too.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Acebeam W50 LEP flashlight first view

    Looks like its still using a class 3b laser like the W30

    [IMG][/IMG]

    [IMG][/IMG]

    IMG][/IMG]
    Last edited by Magio; 01-30-2021 at 10:46 AM.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Acebeam W50 LEP flashlight first view

    And I just realized its up on their website. $2300 but you cant buy it. Maybe the W40 will come soon and be the consumer version thats available for sale. https://www.acebeam.com/white-laser-lights-w50
    Last edited by Magio; 01-30-2021 at 02:38 PM.

  29. #29

    Default Re: Acebeam W50 LEP flashlight first view

    Well this answers the question a: It is not available without a signed industry use agreement (in red at the bottom of the page) and b: It uses the same strength laser but enhanced optics and efficiency as I suspected. At 2300.00 it's not cheap. Great pics btw!

    So on to waiting for the W40 and hopefully G10...

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