Issues with 16340 and RCR123A batteries in Streamlight ProTac 1L-1AA

Kungpow

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I have an Olight teal RCR123A battery that rapidly discharges to 0v after 1min of use. After charging it with the Nitecore Intelligcharger I2 (Older model) it charges back to 4v. However, it discharges back to 0v after a minute of use.


I have an Eagletac 16340 battery that charges to 4v. After 30 seconds of use, the flashlight rapidly flashes/strobes (low battery indicator?) and shuts off. Sometimes you can push the button and turn it back on, but sometimes you need to unscrew the tail-cap and re-screw it to use the light. It only discharged to 3.9v.


The only battery that works properly is the Fenix RCR123A (ARB-L16-700UP) but even that battery has a low runtime (Maybe 45min - 1hr of use).


I am not really impressed with this light. It seems to discharge batteries even when the light is off. If anyone can offer some insight that would be greatly appreciated.

 

aznsx

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I can't help with the diagnostics, but....

The SL documentation I see for this light, which I just recently reviewed because I'm considering purchasing one, states compatibility with "AA Alkaline, CR123A lithium, AA lithium" battery types. The user manual also specifically states that "This product is not designed to use a rechargeable CR123 cell". I'm familiar with the Olight and Fenix cells you mentioned, and I believe if you're trying to use those in this light, you're operating way outside of specs, and thus might expect problems.

I use K2 LFP123 (lithium iron phosphate) cells in some lights designed for CR123A with reasonable (given their capacity) results, so that might be an option with this light. The safe rechargeable option for that light is probably Eneloop (NiMH) AAs.
 
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Msf

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I own a couple of the Protac 1L-1AA and they will work fine with 3.0v or less, but the driver is overloaded above that and it accounts for at least some of the wacky results you are seeing. I know from experience. Lol.
Hate to say it, but if you want to use rechargeable batteries in it, the only way to guarantee avoiding the issues is to use Nimh, which means AAs, or some of the less common lithium rechargeables with a top voltage of 3.0, such as the lithium iron phosphate mentioned by aznsx.
 

peter yetman

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Just out of interest, why are you only charging your Li Ion cells to 4 volts?
Also, if you are discharging them to an actual 0 volts (rather tha just zero percent on your charger), they are already knackered. It's generally agreed that around 3 volts is the minimum you should allow your cell voltage to drop down to.
P
 
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Kungpow

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Just out of interest, why are you only charging your Li Ion cells to 4 volts?
Also, if you are discharging them to an actual 0 volts (rather tha just zero percent on your charger), they are already knackered. It's generally agreed that around 3 volts is the minimum you should allow your cell voltage to drop down to.
P

On my charger they charge to 4v and stop. The Olight battery discharges to 0v, when I put the battery on the charger it starts from the lowest charging indicator and charges back to 4v.
Look like its time to recycle the Olight battery. It didn't even last that long.
 

Kungpow

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I can't help with the diagnostics, but....

The SL documentation I see for this light, which I just recently reviewed because I'm considering purchasing one, states compatibility with "AA Alkaline, CR123A lithium, AA lithium" battery types. The user manual also specifically states that "This product is not designed to use a rechargeable CR123 cell". I'm familiar with the Olight and Fenix cells you mentioned, and I believe if you're trying to use those in this light, you're operating way outside of specs, and thus might expect problems.

I use K2 LFP123 (lithium iron phosphate) cells in some lights designed for CR123A with reasonable (given their capacity) results, so that might be an option with this light. The safe rechargeable option for that light is probably Eneloop (NiMH) AAs.


I used have K2 LFP123 for my Surefire G2X but they ended up wearing out pretty quickly. Are LFP123 significantly better than standard lithium batteries?
I will try and buy some.
 

peter yetman

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Do other cells charge to 4.2v on your charger? Have you measured the xero voltage with a meter, or is it just the charger saying zero?
I would dispose of those cells anyway, it's not woth having a fire to save a few dollars.
P
 

Kungpow

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Do other cells charge to 4.2v on your charger? Have you measured the xero voltage with a meter, or is it just the charger saying zero?
I would dispose of those cells anyway, it's not woth having a fire to save a few dollars.
P

I believe all the cells charge to 4v when checked with a multi meter. The Olight reads 0v on the multi-meter when it runs for the 30 seconds.

I can charge all of them again and check.
 

Owen

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Oh, you're gonna recharge it, then stick it right back in the light, aren't you?:crackup:

You are not discharging the cell to 0v.
0v is what you get when a protection circuit trips.
Light flashing then cutting off, but restarting with another press, points to the other battery's protection circuit.
Strange that battery #3, the Fenix protected cell does work.
Strange anything works, since you apparently just go around randomly buying junky cells, and sticking them in lights that aren't made for them.


I am not really impressed with this light.
I am. It's survived being owned by you, and your repeated attempts to kill it!
 

bykfixer

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Daaaaaaaam!!
Don't hold back O, tell us how you really feel. lol

So many folks these days fail to understand that rechargeable 123's have a lot more voltage than the disposable kind and/or many many 123 possible lights don't take the RCR.

I get "can you answer this question" emails from Amazon often and the majority ask about RCR's being go or no go for lights I had bought there a while back. When fakes started to litter the place I stopped buying anything from Amazon if I could help it. Instead I go through flashlight dealers who gladly answer emails about such things.
 
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lightfooted

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I am. It's survived being owned by you, and your repeated attempts to kill it!

Yeah, you should probably stop trying to use batteries that the light isn't designed for and specifically says to not use ("other types"). Or get a light that is built to use rechargeable Li-Ion cells, like a Klarus XT1C 2018 version. It even comes with a Li-Ion rechargeable cell with a micro-usb charging port built into it.

Also you may not have ruined the cells but I would carefully try them in something that is designed to use them first.

Oh and the Klarus also runs on standard chemistry cells as well.
 

lightfooted

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Daaaaaaaam!!
Don't hold back O, tell us how you really feel. lol

So many folks these days fail to understand that rechargeable 123's have a lot more voltage than the disposable kind and/or many many 123 possible lights don't take the RCR.

I get "can you answer this question" emails from Amazon often and the majority ask about RCR's being go or no go for lights I had bought there a while back. When fakes started to litter the place I stopped buying anything from Amazon if I could help it. Instead I go through flashlight dealers who gladly answer emails about such things.


I've found that most people don't know anything about electronics even at a basic level, they just see a port that seems to allow a cable to plug in or a battery tray that a type of battery fits in and figure that if another type of cable or battery also fits that it must be intended to work with it as well.
 

aznsx

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I used have K2 LFP123 for my Surefire G2X but they ended up wearing out pretty quickly. Are LFP123 significantly better than standard lithium batteries?
I will try and buy some.

My K2 cells performed very well (capacity and discharge curve under load) against their factory specs when I tested them new(with an Opus 3400) [which I do not use to charge those cells, BTW], and in actual use I haven't noted any issues. That said, they've had a fairly easy life without too many charge cycles (they aren't in my more heavily-used lights), and I've not yet done followup testing on them, so I can't say how well they've held up performance-wise in terms of cycle life. I plan to re-test them, but haven't gotten around to it. If you noted decreased performance over their life, I guess that means I'd better do that re-testing to see how mine perform now. If they've degraded significantly I'll be disappointed, because I don't have another good alternative to using CR123A primaries in those lights. BTW, I assume you were charging the LFPs you were using to the proper 3.6V with a charger supporting that, and NOT to 4.2V like most other lithium ion chemistries use. If you charged LFPs to 4.2V, that would greatly decrease their performance / operating life. You're probably aware of that, but just wanted to mention it to be sure, as they don't like that.

As far as your question on whether or not they're "significantly better than standard lithium batteries", if you mean standard lithium primary CR123As, the only significant advantage I see is that they are rechargeable (with a claimed high cycle life), albeit at the expense of lower capacity, while still performing well otherwise (fairly flat discharge curve - actually flatter than a CR123A primary). Their rechargeability is really the only big 'plus' over 123 primaries, as it saves a lot in operating cost vs primaries, and the LFPs really are the only good alternative I'm aware of for a CR123A. In the case of the PT 1L-1AA however, you DO have another rechargeable option, that being the Eneloop AAs, and you may consider them a better option than the LFPs since your light can use AAs - although the output level is undoubtedly lower with Eneloop AAs than it would be with the LFPs, which if correct would be another 'plus' for the LFPs.

As for the O volt situation with the Olight 16340 cells: I suspect that the 0 volt condition is due to the protection circuit having 'tripped', and not being heavily discharged. If you put them on a charger that resets that circuit / condition and then begins charging them, I suspect that if you stop the charging immediately and check them with your meter, you'll probably find that their SOC is not actually '0 volts', but actually much higher. I don't think they're being fully discharged, but rather just 'tripped'.

I have had fairly crummy results with the Olight 16340s, had a lot of nuisance trips under load (like I think you're seeing), and discontinued using them. Conversely, I've had very good results with the Fenix 16340s, and have quite a few in use.

Don't forget that you MAY have damaged that light by attempting to use the unsupported 16340 cells. I don't know, and I would never even try them in that light to try to find out, because the risk of damaging the light is too high. If the light still works correctly / to spec with recommended cell types at this point, then I guess you got very lucky - but I wouldn't recommend continuing that practice.
 

Kungpow

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Oh, you're gonna recharge it, then stick it right back in the light, aren't you?:crackup:

You are not discharging the cell to 0v.
0v is what you get when a protection circuit trips.
Light flashing then cutting off, but restarting with another press, points to the other battery's protection circuit.
Strange that battery #3, the Fenix protected cell does work.
Strange anything works, since you apparently just go around randomly buying junky cells, and sticking them in lights that aren't made for them.



I am. It's survived being owned by you, and your repeated attempts to kill it!


Sorry that I am not an expert since 2002 Owen.

Sorry that I did not know the Fenix, Eagletac and the Olight RCR123 are junk cells. I was told otherwise.

Sorry that I did not read the fine print on the manual that says to not use RCR123 for the Streamlight.


Well, now I am impressed with how it can handle an RCR123 and not die.

Thanks for the imput.
 

Kungpow

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Yeah, you should probably stop trying to use batteries that the light isn't designed for and specifically says to not use ("other types"). Or get a light that is built to use rechargeable Li-Ion cells, like a Klarus XT1C 2018 version. It even comes with a Li-Ion rechargeable cell with a micro-usb charging port built into it.

Also you may not have ruined the cells but I would carefully try them in something that is designed to use them first.

Oh and the Klarus also runs on standard chemistry cells as well.

I'll just use the disposable CR123 or the NICad AA from now on.
 

Kungpow

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Daaaaaaaam!!
Don't hold back O, tell us how you really feel. lol

So many folks these days fail to understand that rechargeable 123's have a lot more voltage than the disposable kind and/or many many 123 possible lights don't take the RCR.

I get "can you answer this question" emails from Amazon often and the majority ask about RCR's being go or no go for lights I had bought there a while back. When fakes started to litter the place I stopped buying anything from Amazon if I could help it. Instead I go through flashlight dealers who gladly answer emails about such things.


I knew that RCR123 had higher voltage than disposable CR123. I wrongfully assumed that the ProTac 1L-AA was capable of handling 1v over that standard 3v.
I thought most flashlights could survive that voltage because they already have the technology to scale down the voltage.
 

Kungpow

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My K2 cells performed very well (capacity and discharge curve under load) against their factory specs when I tested them new(with an Opus 3400) [which I do not use to charge those cells, BTW], and in actual use I haven't noted any issues. That said, they've had a fairly easy life without too many charge cycles (they aren't in my more heavily-used lights), and I've not yet done followup testing on them, so I can't say how well they've held up performance-wise in terms of cycle life. I plan to re-test them, but haven't gotten around to it. If you noted decreased performance over their life, I guess that means I'd better do that re-testing to see how mine perform now. If they've degraded significantly I'll be disappointed, because I don't have another good alternative to using CR123A primaries in those lights. BTW, I assume you were charging the LFPs you were using to the proper 3.6V with a charger supporting that, and NOT to 4.2V like most other lithium ion chemistries use. If you charged LFPs to 4.2V, that would greatly decrease their performance / operating life. You're probably aware of that, but just wanted to mention it to be sure, as they don't like that.

As far as your question on whether or not they're "significantly better than standard lithium batteries", if you mean standard lithium primary CR123As, the only significant advantage I see is that they are rechargeable (with a claimed high cycle life), albeit at the expense of lower capacity, while still performing well otherwise (fairly flat discharge curve - actually flatter than a CR123A primary). Their rechargeability is really the only big 'plus' over 123 primaries, as it saves a lot in operating cost vs primaries, and the LFPs really are the only good alternative I'm aware of for a CR123A. In the case of the PT 1L-1AA however, you DO have another rechargeable option, that being the Eneloop AAs, and you may consider them a better option than the LFPs since your light can use AAs - although the output level is undoubtedly lower with Eneloop AAs than it would be with the LFPs, which if correct would be another 'plus' for the LFPs.

As for the O volt situation with the Olight 16340 cells: I suspect that the 0 volt condition is due to the protection circuit having 'tripped', and not being heavily discharged. If you put them on a charger that resets that circuit / condition and then begins charging them, I suspect that if you stop the charging immediately and check them with your meter, you'll probably find that their SOC is not actually '0 volts', but actually much higher. I don't think they're being fully discharged, but rather just 'tripped'.

I have had fairly crummy results with the Olight 16340s, had a lot of nuisance trips under load (like I think you're seeing), and discontinued using them. Conversely, I've had very good results with the Fenix 16340s, and have quite a few in use.

Don't forget that you MAY have damaged that light by attempting to use the unsupported 16340 cells. I don't know, and I would never even try them in that light to try to find out, because the risk of damaging the light is too high. If the light still works correctly / to spec with recommended cell types at this point, then I guess you got very lucky - but I wouldn't recommend continuing that practice.


Thanks for the information I appreciate it.
I previously used the K2 LFP123A with the Nitecore i2 and Surefire G2X. I was advised that the K2's would work well in Surefire lights, and were being sold on the Surefire website.

They did preform well, but I do not remember them lasting that long.
Maybe because I was not supposed to use the K2 LFP123a in the G2X
 

peter yetman

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Sorry, for some reason I was paying more attention to the cells rather than the light. Good spot whoever sussed they were protected cells, I'd never have thought of that, as I spurn protected cells as i would a rabid dog.

I didn't notice that you were using a SL 1L 1AA, I've been using 4.2v Li Ion cells in there since I bought it about 9 months ago, with no ill effects. There's a few threads on here from like minded fellows.

When you run it on the higher voltage cells it is much brighter on High than the lower voltage cells, It also produces more heat which explains why you are getting lower runtimes. Also the difference between Low and High is negligible, I don't realy like lows that have been set by someone else, so this doesn't bother me. I don't use disposable cells for ecological reasons.

If you're at all worried about stuffing your light, don't use Li Ions. If you thrive on a bit of risk, go ahead.

Oh, and chuck those crappy cells. They'll only bring you grief.
P
 

lightfooted

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Sorry that I am not an expert since 2002 Owen.

Sorry that I did not know the Fenix, Eagletac and the Olight RCR123 are junk cells. I was told otherwise.

Sorry that I did not read the fine print on the manual that says to not use RCR123 for the Streamlight.


Well, now I am impressed with how it can handle an RCR123 and not die.

Thanks for the imput.

No need to apologize to anyone here, it's your flashlight after all ...you paid for it and you're the one putting in cells that it may or may not work with. Ultimately if it just stops working, that's your situation to deal with. If Peter says it works then I'm sure it does for him, but I don't need to run any of my lights on cells they weren't designed for because I have other lights that will give me the kind of output I want, on the cells that they use.
 
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