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Thread: P60 Xenon lamp module, spare bulbs?

  1. #1
    Flashaholic* Katherine Alicia's Avatar
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    Shrug P60 Xenon lamp module, spare bulbs?

    I`ll start by saying I know very little to nothing about the whole P60 host modern Incan torches, but I think I get the basic principal in that you buy a decent host with the correct battery holder length to suit the module voltage you want to run in it.

    I want to run Incan Xenon bulbs in mine, most likely 3.7v for an 18650.

    I`v already bought a suitable module for the host, now I can see that the module comes with a reflector and some sort spring thing on the other end so I won`t need another one of those, but where can I buy the bulbs for it in case the one in this module ever pops? I`v looked everywhere and can`t seem to find spare bulbs or even how to change them?
    it`s almost like this information is being hidden!?

    anyone?

  2. #2
    *Flashaholic* thermal guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: P60 Xenon lamp module, spare bulbs?

    Sheís all one unit. Bulb, reflector and spring.itís basically a throw away unit.
    If i had one day left to live i would want to be at my workplace.Because every day is like a frickin eternity.

  3. #3
    Flashaholic* Katherine Alicia's Avatar
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    Default Re: P60 Xenon lamp module, spare bulbs?

    but that`s Terrible! it such a waste and so bad for the environment not to mention the finances. is there No way they can be changed at all?

  4. #4
    *Flashaholic* thermal guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: P60 Xenon lamp module, spare bulbs?

    Well Iím sure someone with more skill then me ďwhich wouldnít be hard to findĒ could Solder a new LED in them.not sure about a Xenon lamp module. I believe people have done that with 5 mm ones for long run time. But as a whole for 10-12 bucks each itís probably easier and cost as much just to buy a new one.
    If i had one day left to live i would want to be at my workplace.Because every day is like a frickin eternity.

  5. #5

    Default Re: P60 Xenon lamp module, spare bulbs?

    Basically a P60 bulb is a bi-pin with really long legs. Both poke through the base of the module that is also the reflector. The base of the bulb is glued to the base of the module where the legs poke through.

    One pin is bent in a way that it touches the big spring that acts as a ground to the body of the light. The other pin is bent in a way that it touches the smaller spring that acts as the positive and touches the positive point on the battery.
    You can't really see the actual leg in the photos below but if you remove the big spring from the module you'll see them.


    The "leg" touching the big spring


    The leg touching the little spring.

    The trick is to find a bi-pin bulb that has not had the legs trimmed or solder pins onto one that has been trimmed. Look up "lead wire base miniature" light bulbs.
    Last edited by bykfixer; 01-02-2021 at 08:05 PM.
    John 3:16

  6. #6

    Default Re: P60 Xenon lamp module, spare bulbs?

    Katherine Alicia, It is my impression that the reason (or one of the reasons) that they designed the P60 lamp assembly the way they did was that they were marketed towards the law enforcement and military, so:
    a) the unit was pre-focused (chuck the burnt-out lamp assembly, pop in the new one, screw the bezel down, and go..., and b) it was a complete package, and somewhat more durable and time-saving than a bulb whose pins you had to get in the holes, or take time screwing in. That is my understanding, although others will undoubtedlhy have more insight.

    You're right, it is "wasteful and unevironmental", but that is the way the Surefire incan system played out, at least for the C/P/Z/G line. Because of the ubiquitousness of the Surefire system, there are a number of makers of P60 type lamp assemblies. None of them are probably as good as Surefire branded bulbs (partly because of their proprietary Xenon-and-Halogen secret gas mix). Alas Surefire no longer makes incans, but there are still others making them, and for much cheaper. I would suggest going to Kaidomain dot com, and typing in the search term "xenon". One of the search results is even optimzed for 3.7 volts. I think shipping is free.
    Last edited by novice; 01-02-2021 at 08:36 PM.

  7. #7

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    Default Re: P60 Xenon lamp module, spare bulbs?

    Iím sure some have tried bulb replacement, but there are a few things which limit the efficiency of this, time being the major one.
    First an appropriate bulb needs sourced, then you need to focus it in the reflector. Getting this right could take a few tries. On top of it, all of the work has to happen without fouling the reflector.

    Not saying it shouldnít be attempted, just there may be more to it than you are considering.
    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.
    -- Albert Einstein

  8. #8

    Default Re: P60 Xenon lamp module, spare bulbs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Katherine Alicia View Post
    but that`s Terrible! it such a waste and so bad for the environment not to mention the finances. is there No way they can be changed at all?
    These lights were not designed with the hobbyist in mind, tinkering in a workshop at his convenience. When a bulb blew, the priority was for the soldier/police officer to be able to quickly and easily replace it. At the time a complete lamp assembly was the best way to accomplish that task.

  9. #9

    Default Re: P60 Xenon lamp module, spare bulbs?

    They are not built with the intent to allow separate replacement, much like the 7 inch round sealed beam head lights from the 70's and earlier. You can find them on various bulk purchase sites for around a dollar...give or take. Quality suffers I'm sure but if you are looking for the absolute lowest cost to replace a burned out lamp then that is what you could do.

    The modules made by Surefire in the early years were of superb quality and the justification for the fixed bulb was clear. I don't know what happened later on just before the LED modules hit the market...but I do recall seeing one or two complaints about them. Nothing I ever experienced but mainly because I only once had to replace my original lamp and that was several years before LEDs were a thing.

    Also: I actually attempted to repair the broken lamp once I obtained a replacement. Which for the record was around $30 if I recall correctly. Marked up some I think as I got it from a LEO supply shop. The biggest hinderance to replacing the bulb was getting the springs to separate without damaging anything. The glue or whatever that holds the bulb in place is also very durable...I would have sworn it was concrete. I ended up making it useless as the force required to remove the dead bulb caused a lot of collateral damage. I don't recommend making the attempt really...it just isn't worth your time. I mean that seriously, as in...would you also attempt to roll your own 18650?

    For reference though, the bulb is soldered onto the center spring, or at least mine was. Or was it spot welding? Hmm...not sure now as it's been 20 years or so since then.
    Last edited by lightfooted; 01-02-2021 at 06:16 PM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: P60 Xenon lamp module, spare bulbs?

    Well, I might agree that these are a waste if I ended up throwing them away at all. But these babies seem to last forever! The Surefires, and even the chinese knockoffs that I stocked up on are still all alive. The no name brand Chinese lamps get used in my 6P daily. I haven't had one die since I bought them 5 or 6 years ago. And I have Surefire P60s that are much older than that and still running beautifully. I think you are going to enjoy the amount of lamps available to you and how well they perform.

  11. #11

    Default Re: P60 Xenon lamp module, spare bulbs?

    Katherine Alicia, Fivemega has in the past made limited numbers of custom parts that address some of your concerns. Most unfortunately, these parts have long since sold out, but you might want to consider a "Grail Quest" for one or more of them, starting with a post in the WTB section.

    https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-Ready-to-ship

    https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...HT-for-urefire

    https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...mbly-(5th-Run)

  12. #12
    Flashaholic* fivemega's Avatar
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    Default Re: P60 Xenon lamp module, spare bulbs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Katherine Alicia View Post
    I want to run Incan Xenon bulbs in mine, most likely 3.7v for an 18650.
    http://kaidomain.com/Flashlight-DIY-...flector-Module

    Depending on brightness and run time, you can use:
    1- 3.7 volt bulb with single 18650 (1A- P61 bulb with single iMR 18650)
    2- 7.4 volt bulb with pair of 18350 (2A- P90 bulb with pair of IMR 18350)
    3- 7.4 volt bulb with pair of 18500+35mm ExCap (3A- P90 bulb with pair of 18500)
    4- 7.4 volt bulb with pair of 18650+69mm ExCap (4A- P90 bulb with pair of 18650)

    Quote Originally Posted by Katherine Alicia View Post
    but that`s Terrible! it such a waste and so bad for the environment not to mention the finances.
    That light was mainly designed for military or law enforcement. So cost of batteries or bulb replacement was not an issue. Also as mentioned earlier, no adjustment or focusing needed.
    Quote Originally Posted by bykfixer View Post
    Basically a P60 bulb is a bi-pin with really long legs.
    In fact they call "wire terminal bulb". Normally they use soft and long nickel wires for easier soldering with maximum reliable connection.
    Bi-pin bulb is normally with short and stiff pins so can be inserted in proper socket easily.

  13. #13
    Flashaholic* Katherine Alicia's Avatar
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    Default Re: P60 Xenon lamp module, spare bulbs?

    Thanks each! I`v just places an order on kaidomain for 5 of the 3.7v modules so I hope that will last me a while!
    without having actually seen/held one before it`s hard to picture the scale of them, but I`m determined to come up with Some use for these if the bulb ever pops, I`m wondering if perhaps a socket could be made or fitted perhaps, there are some bi-pin type and also some MES types that are small enough, it`ll make an interesting project for me I`m sure

    from reading I gather a P60 is a single cell torch and a p90 is a double? I have a 7.4v bulb module on the way too, I wanted to see if this pair of protected 16340 I bought a while back will work in it so they`ll finally have a home of their own (the didn`t fit my E04 or my OTR M3 Pro).
    As well as the Seraph I also bought an el cheapo WF-502B, but I read the switches are a bit naughty sometimes, so these Mc Clicky gizmo things... are they suitable replacements? I`v seen them mentioned so many times here but never really understood much about it other than them being popular.

    and am I ok using a flat top protected 18650 in these things?

  14. #14
    *Flashaholic* peter yetman's Avatar
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    Default Re: P60 Xenon lamp module, spare bulbs?

    P60 are 6V and P90 9V. They were originally in SF 6P (2 x CR123) and SF 9P (3 x CR123).
    McClicky switches are like the Holy Grail of clicky xwitches and carry more current than the SF clickies. I bloody hate them, as I've had a few die on me and I've gone all twisty on those lights.
    I does just seem to be me that has problems with McClickies.
    P
    Last edited by peter yetman; 01-03-2021 at 07:11 AM.
    "O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!" He chortled in his joy.

  15. #15

    Default Re: P60 Xenon lamp module, spare bulbs?

    The seraph switches can be problematic when runing a bunch of amps. But for a fairly stock configuration like you are speaking of they'll do fine.
    John 3:16

  16. #16

    Default Re: P60 Xenon lamp module, spare bulbs?

    It is less about the number of cells and more about the voltage. Others will chime in with more speciffic info. But, for example you can use 1, 2, or 3 cells depending on the host and lamp module. You just need to remember that the total voltage for the cells should not exceed what the lamp is rated for. The stock 6P runs a p60 on 2 cr123a cells. Thats a 6V lamp with two 3V batteries. If you have a 3.7V lamp, you need to make sure you only have a total of around 3.7V worth of battery such as a 16650 or an 18650 if the host can fit an 18mm cell. Stock 6P tubes generally cannot fit the 18650s but can fit the 16650s.

    So, moral of the story you want to match the size of the batter in diameter and length to the size that the tube can fit, and the voltage of the battery to the lamp. You can go under, for example. A 3.7V battery under a 6V lamp is going to work and give you longer run time but less output than the lamp was designed for. But if you go over the voltage, you will pop the bulb. And if you are using multiple batteries in one tube (The P90 was designed to use 3 3V cr123a's), you need to add up the voltage of each and not exceed what the lamp can handle.

  17. #17
    Flashaholic* Katherine Alicia's Avatar
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    Default Re: P60 Xenon lamp module, spare bulbs?

    Quote Originally Posted by bykfixer View Post
    The seraph switches can be problematic when runing a bunch of amps. But for a fairly stock configuration like you are speaking of they'll do fine.

    well the bulb modules I bought from Kaidomain are 15W types (the 12W were all gone), so that roughly works out to about 4A, are the stock switches ok with that amount?

  18. #18

    Default Re: P60 Xenon lamp module, spare bulbs?

    Take a few of your burnt out modules and swap a high cri 5mm led in there. Then run them in a 2aa or 1cr123 host as a pretty effective battery vampire.

  19. #19

    Default Re: P60 Xenon lamp module, spare bulbs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Katherine Alicia View Post
    well the bulb modules I bought from Kaidomain are 15W types (the 12W were all gone), so that roughly works out to about 4A, are the stock switches ok with that amount?
    See post 21
    https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-versus-Seraph
    John 3:16

  20. #20

    Default Re: P60 Xenon lamp module, spare bulbs?

    The Seraph should take any 18650...but, you found a protected flat top??? WTF???

  21. #21
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    Default Re: P60 Xenon lamp module, spare bulbs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck91 View Post
    Take a few of your burnt out modules and swap a high cri 5mm led in there. Then run them in a 2aa or 1cr123 host as a pretty effective battery vampire.
    This. You are already well versed in making little vampires. Why not vampire some p60 modules?
    Big butnotsomuch-burly

  22. #22
    Flashaholic* Katherine Alicia's Avatar
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    Default Re: P60 Xenon lamp module, spare bulbs?

    Quote Originally Posted by bykfixer View Post

    aww maaan! that kinda sux
    So I need to get a "twisty" then (whatever tha is LOL)?

  23. #23
    Flashaholic* Katherine Alicia's Avatar
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    Default Re: P60 Xenon lamp module, spare bulbs?

    Quote Originally Posted by lightfooted View Post
    The Seraph should take any 18650...but, you found a protected flat top??? WTF???

    Sure, I make my own, I bought a load of protection circuits, 10mm Kapton tape and some wraps a few years ago and now I just buy Cells and roll my own
    I do Molicell P26a and P42a all the while for my incan lights.

  24. #24
    Flashaholic* Katherine Alicia's Avatar
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    Default Re: P60 Xenon lamp module, spare bulbs?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigburly912 View Post
    This. You are already well versed in making little vampires. Why not vampire some p60 modules?

    that`s not a bad idea if I get a tube that takes common primaries, I really need my lights to arrive first though so i can see what i`m playing with in terms of space and pick-up points for the juice (2 springs on a reflector doesn`t tell me too much), I have some lovely 5mm warm white leds, maybe arranged as a triple would work too? but I really need to see first hand what I`m dealing with first. you`ve just kinda reminded me...I`v got a pack of aluminium brazing/soldering rods somewhere too!

  25. #25

    Default Re: P60 Xenon lamp module, spare bulbs?

    A triple 5mm would be cool- just like the old nite ize drop in for the minimag. It will take more effort though. You would have to mount the leds above the original bulb hole and Iím not sure if the leads would reach far enough at that point.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: P60 Xenon lamp module, spare bulbs?

    They make a long lead version of the 5mm led that should still have enough reach to make it. Iím anxious to see what she comes with. She makes some cool little lights
    Big butnotsomuch-burly

  27. #27
    Flashaholic* Katherine Alicia's Avatar
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    Default Re: P60 Xenon lamp module, spare bulbs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck91 View Post
    A triple 5mm would be cool- just like the old nite ize drop in for the minimag. It will take more effort though. You would have to mount the leds above the original bulb hole and Iím not sure if the leads would reach far enough at that point.
    Something like that I`d probably pot as a cone with the 3 leds at the top then the inductor and QX5252 chip under that going off to 2 leads (+ and -) and try and fit the cone into the hole that was once the bulb before I drilled it out

  28. #28
    Enlightened
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    Default Re: P60 Xenon lamp module, spare bulbs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Katherine Alicia View Post
    but that`s Terrible! it such a waste and so bad for the environment not to mention the finances. is there No way they can be changed at all?

    Agreed, I really wish more people saw it this way. LEDs don't last forever...

    By chance could you get an older p60?

  29. #29
    Flashaholic* Katherine Alicia's Avatar
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    Default Re: P60 Xenon lamp module, spare bulbs?

    Quote Originally Posted by jross20 View Post
    Agreed, I really wish more people saw it this way. LEDs don't last forever...

    By chance could you get an older p60?

    possibly, but all the ones I`v seen are waaaay too expensive, even second hand, and Usually from the states so I have to pay a load of import tax as well

  30. #30
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    Default Re: P60 Xenon lamp module, spare bulbs?

    I would send you one but last item I sent to UK to help someone out cost me around 50 bucks just to ship. Itís not feasible at all and I donít understand it. I used to ship autographs all over the world for around 10 bucks a pop. Had no idea shipping had gotten so ridiculous
    Big butnotsomuch-burly

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