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Thread: IFR16340 help

  1. #1
    Flashaholic* Katherine Alicia's Avatar
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    Default IFR16340 help

    I just bought some IFR 16340 (cr123a) cells and it says these are 3.2v batts, I`ll hopefully be using these in my P60 hosts because I refuse to buy single use batteries, but I have questions! LOL

    1) is the 3.2v literal? as in that`s what they are when fully charged, Or is it like 3.7v Li-ion cells that are really 4.2v
    2) since they`re only 3.2v what`s the max discharge cutoff voltage?
    3) can I charge them on a regular charger that does Li-ion and NiMH cells or do i need a special one for Li iron phosphate?

    anything else you think I might need to know when using these in a P60 Incan setup?

  2. #2
    Flashaholic* adamlau's Avatar
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    Default Re: IFR16340 help

    3.2v nominal, usually comes off hot around 3.7v or even higher (if cycle life is not imperative). Around 1A max discharge. No special care other than trying not to discharge under 2v per cell for cycle life.

  3. #3
    Flashaholic* Katherine Alicia's Avatar
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    Default Re: IFR16340 help

    Hmmm... seems like they`ll still be too much when freshly charged to run a 6v bulb module without popping it then

  4. #4

    Default Re: IFR16340 help

    You need a special charger or a charger with a stetting for them. Voltage is too high for incan bulbs.

  5. #5
    Flashaholic* Katherine Alicia's Avatar
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    Default Re: IFR16340 help

    I have a charger that will charge to either 3.7 or 4.2 if that`s any good? Ironically it`s the first charger I ever bought!

  6. #6

    Default Re: IFR16340 help

    Seems like it would work, though I think IFRs are charged at 3.6V. You need a low charging current (around .25 A).
    Last edited by xxo; 01-07-2021 at 03:50 PM.

  7. #7
    Flashaholic* Katherine Alicia's Avatar
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    Default Re: IFR16340 help

    Quote Originally Posted by xxo View Post
    You need a low charging current (around .25 A).
    yeah, That`s gunna be a problem, it`s a 500ma charger

  8. #8

    Default Re: IFR16340 help

    Probably a little too high of a charge rate for 16340's with typical 400-500 mAh capacity, but you might get away with it.

  9. #9
    Enlightened
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    Default Re: IFR16340 help

    I don't know what kind you bought, or of course the mfgrs. specs, but here's a link to a post with a link to the specs for the ones I use. You may find them interesting / enlightening if you haven't used the chemistry before.

    https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...t=#post5411936

  10. #10
    Flashaholic* Katherine Alicia's Avatar
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    Default Re: IFR16340 help

    well I figured if I`m going to be doing this, then I may as well do it properly from the start, so I bought a charger for IFR cells as well. Worst comes to the worst I have several LED lights I can use them in so there`s nothing wasted.
    The batts I bought are by Poover here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-x-POOVE...53.m2749.l2649
    I`v had batts by them before and they seem to be ok, and are still working fine a year later (even though I`d never heard of them before).

    I`v read in a few places that if you leave these batts to rest for an hour or so, they do drop in voltage and tend to stabilise at about 3.35v (ish). so Now I`m wondering if i`ll have a few spare mm in the tube so that I can solder a couple of 1A diodes in parallel between 2 sheets of copper clad board and use that as an insert to drop the excess voltage, like: 3.35 x 2 = 6.7v - 0.7v = 6v.

  11. #11
    *Flashaholic* ChrisGarrett's Avatar
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    Default Re: IFR16340 help

    You could always locate a naked Sanyo ZTA 4.35v cell and something like a Littokala 100/202 and see if your light fires up?

    Chris
    Convoy: S2, S2+, M1, M2, Fenix: P1D, PD32, HL30, ET: D25C Ti, SF: 6P, ZL: SC-600, Klarus: P2A, Jetbeam: BA-20, Icon: Rogue 1, L3: L10, Xeno: E03, ShiningBeam: I-Mini, Olight: i3s, SWM: D40A, M11R, V11R, Maglite: 6Ds, MMs, Solitaires, LaCrosse BC-700, Maha C-9000, XTAR VP2, MP1S, XP1, MC1+, WP2 II, NiteCore i4, v2.

  12. #12
    Flashaholic* Katherine Alicia's Avatar
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    Default Re: IFR16340 help

    I`m trying to get to 6v or as close as possible with 2 cells, I`m not sure how I`d do the maths with 4.35 and another cell without mixing cell types. though 4.35 would light it up, it probably wouldn`t be a very nice beam.

  13. #13
    *Flashaholic* ChrisGarrett's Avatar
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    Default Re: IFR16340 help

    Quote Originally Posted by Katherine Alicia View Post
    I`m trying to get to 6v or as close as possible with 2 cells, I`m not sure how I`d do the maths with 4.35 and another cell without mixing cell types. though 4.35 would light it up, it probably wouldn`t be a very nice beam.
    You donít get there with dummy cells.

    If the light fires up with a single 16650, even at 4.2v, then you have your answer. You might lose a bit of output, but youíre no longer beholden to primaries.

    3.2v RCR 16340s blow for longevity and anything you do try will be a small step up from Chinese dreck.

    Chris
    Convoy: S2, S2+, M1, M2, Fenix: P1D, PD32, HL30, ET: D25C Ti, SF: 6P, ZL: SC-600, Klarus: P2A, Jetbeam: BA-20, Icon: Rogue 1, L3: L10, Xeno: E03, ShiningBeam: I-Mini, Olight: i3s, SWM: D40A, M11R, V11R, Maglite: 6Ds, MMs, Solitaires, LaCrosse BC-700, Maha C-9000, XTAR VP2, MP1S, XP1, MC1+, WP2 II, NiteCore i4, v2.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: IFR16340 help

    Quote Originally Posted by Katherine Alicia View Post
    well I figured if I`m going to be doing this, then I may as well do it properly from the start, so I bought a charger for IFR cells as well. Worst comes to the worst I have several LED lights I can use them in so there`s nothing wasted.
    The batts I bought are by Poover here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-x-POOVE...53.m2749.l2649
    I`v had batts by them before and they seem to be ok, and are still working fine a year later (even though I`d never heard of them before).

    I`v read in a few places that if you leave these batts to rest for an hour or so, they do drop in voltage and tend to stabilise at about 3.35v (ish). so Now I`m wondering if i`ll have a few spare mm in the tube so that I can solder a couple of 1A diodes in parallel between 2 sheets of copper clad board and use that as an insert to drop the excess voltage, like: 3.35 x 2 = 6.7v - 0.7v = 6v.
    Good that you got correct charger as regular 4.2v Li-ion charger on LiFePO4
    would be not good as they top at 3.65v.

    I got some LiFePO4 18650's used in garden lighting, and by chance in
    second-hand store found a suitable charger with sliding contacts which take a
    variety of sizes. Brand name is Rydelec. Slow charge, only 200mA though,
    but most cylindrical cells have fairly low capacity anyway. Should be
    other suitable chargers out there.

    LiFePO4 has lower output voltage and capacity compared to "regular" Li-ion,
    but it does have its advantages.

    You could probably do the diode-drop thing but is it really necessary?
    Will the difference between 6.6v and 6.0v likely have any consequences?

    Dave

  15. #15
    Flashaholic
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    Default Re: IFR16340 help

    I only have one flashlight which runs from 2xCR123, nice but hardly
    ever use it. Draws 400mA so run-time is short with primary cells.

    Duracell Type 245(2CR5)camera battery ("6v")has inside two series cells
    similar to CR123, but slightly smaller diameter. One which is years old still
    measures 6.5v no-load (3.25v per cell). I'll likely disassemble them as
    can't find any other use.

    Coin cells such as CR2032 usually measure 3.3v new, when down at 3.0v
    are starting to run out. Different Lithium primary chemistries are out there,
    not all identical, some care in comparison required.

    So voltage difference between primary Lithium CR123 and LiFePO4 does not seem
    very much.


    Dave

  16. #16

    Default Re: IFR16340 help

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_H View Post
    So voltage difference between primary Lithium CR123 and LiFePO4 does not seem
    very much.
    It's enough to blow incan bulbs.

  17. #17
    Flashaholic* Katherine Alicia's Avatar
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    Default Re: IFR16340 help

    Quote Originally Posted by xxo View Post
    It's enough to blow incan bulbs.
    Yup, I`v found this to be true also. Without that diode idea I wouldn`t risk it, However I have found that a 6V P60 dropin will run quite nicely with an 18650 cell and still be around 3000k.

  18. #18

    Default Re: IFR16340 help

    You would probably need to drop it down to around 5V with the diode as that's about what a pair of CR123A's put out under load.

  19. #19
    Flashaholic* Katherine Alicia's Avatar
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    Default Re: IFR16340 help

    well at the moment I`v kinda got them as backup cells because they work really well with a 7.4v dropin as well as in my E04 and OTR M3 Pro.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: IFR16340 help

    Quote Originally Posted by xxo View Post
    It's enough to blow incan bulbs.
    I guess if you've tried it and that happens, who am I to argue...but
    seems a bit strange unless the bulb is already overdriven at 6v as it is.

    Just pointing out in the LFP123A datasheet, cell spends most of its discharge
    in the 3.0v to 3.3v range.

    Dave

  21. #21
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    Default Re: IFR16340 help

    Primary CR123A heavily loaded spends most of its time down around 2.5v/cell. To mimic with
    LiFePO4 would require one diode drop per cell, wasting about 20% of battery capacity, should not
    be necessary using a 6v bulb.

    Running a small bulb at 10% above its rated voltage, only about a half volt higher, may shorten life a bit
    but not likely the primary reason for "popping". Just trying to understand the failure mechanism...

    Failure of incandescents is largely due to repeated stress on filament as result of high inrush current to cold
    filament at turn-on. Possibly it's more of a factor with smaller bulbs.

    Measured cold resistance of a 120v 100W bulb was around 12 ohms. More representative is a 4.8v 0.4A
    krypton bulb, less than 1 ohm.

    I recall a product for household bulbs, a small slug inserted in the socket, which claimed to reduce
    this problem; don't know what was inside, possibly a PTC resistor.

    Series diode will use up about 10% of the battery in this case. Thinking about it though, it probably helps reduce the
    cold inrush, so Katherine' s may not be a bad idea. If it were me I would have a spare bulb and try with/without.

    This all assumes there is enough space for a diode "insert"; or that it is otherwise wired in. Perhaps some
    incan. lights already have this?

    Using two parallel diodes e.g. 1N4004 make sure they are identical parts preferrably from the same
    batch, otherwise one may "hog" the current which makes two in parallel less effective. You may find
    a single device, single or dual diode in DPAK with about same thickness as 1N4004. May be able to scrounge
    such a part from old PCB. Another possibility is regular silicon rectifier (not Schottky) SMT device in SMC etc.
    package, typically 3A or better.


    Dave

  22. #22
    Flashaholic
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    Default Re: IFR16340 help

    Using 18650 1200mAh LiFePO4 after full charge to 3.56v (a bit short of 3.65v) followed by running
    short time at low load, voltage fell off and stabilized around 3.3v.

    Dave

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