Wuben        
Page 9 of 9 FirstFirst ... 23456789
Results 241 to 266 of 266

Thread: Snowmageddon '21

  1. #241
    *Flashaholic* Poppy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Northern New Jersey
    Posts
    5,743

    Default Re: Snowmageddon '21

    Quote Originally Posted by turbodog View Post
    My experience with pex is that it does not crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Arc View Post
    I wouldn't think so as I've abused it and you literally have to cut it to make it crack
    I've used both the metal ring and expansion bands varieties so far and pex will stretch about 50% in diameter and still come back.
    The problem is that there are a huge amount of houses that were built prior to the use of pex and CPVC pipe that have metal piping of some sort and some of that pipe is so old that it has corroded some making for damaged walls that are more susceptible to cracking when the water freezes in the pipe.
    I hope you guys are right about pex. A couple of weeks ago, my daughter turned on the water for the outside faucets. It didn't take long to discover a waterfall from the attic into the kids' bedroom.

    Shoddy workmanship repair of a previous episode of freezing and split pipe, failed. I had turned the water off, and opened the outside faucet, but apparently not all of the water drained out.


    My plumber came by and fixed it properly.



    He also inserted a air connector so I can blow out the lines.
    Hopefully no more frozen pipes for me!
    My Grand Kids call me Poppy

  2. #242
    *Flashaholic* Lynx_Arc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Tulsa,OK
    Posts
    10,562

    Default Re: Snowmageddon '21

    Quote Originally Posted by Poppy View Post
    I hope you guys are right about pex. A couple of weeks ago, my daughter turned on the water for the outside faucets. It didn't take long to discover a waterfall from the attic into the kids' bedroom.

    Shoddy workmanship repair of a previous episode of freezing and split pipe, failed. I had turned the water off, and opened the outside faucet, but apparently not all of the water drained out.

    My plumber came by and fixed it properly.

    He also inserted a air connector so I can blow out the lines.
    Hopefully no more frozen pipes for me!
    It sounds sort of like he didn't have good fall to the pipe so it would drain out, or at least have it level if a pipe has back fall it won't drain out and that water at the lower points would be the most devastating to freeze. Personally I would have just opted to replace the whole pipe with pex myself and make sure it had good fall to it you then wouldn't need to blow out the pipe. I've seen them install automatic pipe heating wires that keep pipes from freezing too.
    Fenix Split rings 1400+ sent, SWIVELS now available also!
    Psalm 112:4 Light shines in the darkness for the godly. They are generous, compassionate, and righteous.

  3. #243
    *Flashaholic* Poppy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Northern New Jersey
    Posts
    5,743

    Default Re: Snowmageddon '21

    I understand. I can't testify to how level the run of pipe is, but it is about a 40 foot run in the attic, and then 6 feet down the exterior wall (which was not insulated ! ) to the faucet. I haven't seen his repair, other than the pictures. I have used heating wire in my second house that had a 10 foot run of pipe in an unheated space. That and letting a faucet drip when temps dropped below 16F worked very well.

    For the first three years I was in my 3rd house, my sprinkler system was blown out by a sprinkler system company. Each year they would have to return in the Spring to repair a burst pipe. One year, when I didn't call them soon enough, and the temps took a sudden plunge, I did it myself. Additionally, I decided to flush the system with a couple of gallons of RV antifreeze. That was the first year I didn't have a break. In the following 12 years or so, I only had two breaks to deal with.
    My Grand Kids call me Poppy

  4. #244
    *Flashaholic* Lynx_Arc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Tulsa,OK
    Posts
    10,562

    Default Re: Snowmageddon '21

    A 40 foot run if it had 1/8 inch fall/foot be a 5 inch drop from start to finish. If I were running it I would try for a 1/4 inch fall that would be about 10 inches drop over the length of the pipe. Normally water lines in houses don't need any drop they often are level as they don't consider them needing to be emptied of water as a prevention from freezing. If the pipe froze in the same place it is possible that is where the pipe either had backfall or a sag in it.
    Fenix Split rings 1400+ sent, SWIVELS now available also!
    Psalm 112:4 Light shines in the darkness for the godly. They are generous, compassionate, and righteous.

  5. #245
    *Flashaholic* turbodog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Southern USA
    Posts
    5,206

    Default Re: Snowmageddon '21

    Sounds like the air is the way to go considering possible sags and the difficulty of getting a long section of pipe to FULLY empty.
    This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time.
    Be prepared for the truth.

  6. #246
    *Flashaholic* Lynx_Arc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Tulsa,OK
    Posts
    10,562

    Default Re: Snowmageddon '21

    Quote Originally Posted by turbodog View Post
    Sounds like the air is the way to go considering possible sags and the difficulty of getting a long section of pipe to FULLY empty.
    likely there would be only so much that air could help if the pipe were large enough and the air pressure either not enough or the air flow required could be unsafe if stopped up. If the pipe had too much backfall you could empty the top of the pipe enough to let the air get out and when pressure was released the water would flow back to fill the low areas and still be able to freeze up.
    No good plumber would allow their pipes to have any more than negligible backfall the pipe should be level at the worst. If there is backfall then a valve needs to be put in the low area so let the water drain out there.
    Fenix Split rings 1400+ sent, SWIVELS now available also!
    Psalm 112:4 Light shines in the darkness for the godly. They are generous, compassionate, and righteous.

  7. #247
    *Flashaholic* turbodog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Southern USA
    Posts
    5,206

    Default Re: Snowmageddon '21

    Dunno. Air at 90 psi should flush out most anything. Pipe burst pressure should be well above that.
    This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time.
    Be prepared for the truth.

  8. #248
    *Flashaholic* Lynx_Arc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Tulsa,OK
    Posts
    10,562

    Default Re: Snowmageddon '21

    Quote Originally Posted by turbodog View Post
    Dunno. Air at 90 psi should flush out most anything. Pipe burst pressure should be well above that.
    We test new copper pipes at about 100psi but older pipes you could try about 40psi. Probably need a compressor with a 10 gallon or larger tank to maintain pressure for awhile if you are blowing water uphill.
    Fenix Split rings 1400+ sent, SWIVELS now available also!
    Psalm 112:4 Light shines in the darkness for the godly. They are generous, compassionate, and righteous.

  9. #249
    *Flashaholic* Poppy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Northern New Jersey
    Posts
    5,743

    Default Re: Snowmageddon '21

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Arc View Post
    likely there would be only so much that air could help if the pipe were large enough and the air pressure either not enough or the air flow required could be unsafe if stopped up. If the pipe had too much backfall you could empty the top of the pipe enough to let the air get out and when pressure was released the water would flow back to fill the low areas and still be able to freeze up.
    No good plumber would allow their pipes to have any more than negligible backfall the pipe should be level at the worst. If there is backfall then a valve needs to be put in the low area so let the water drain out there.
    Yes Lynx_Arc, this had to be what was happening when I had professionals with a big ingersol rand gas powered compressor on a trailer blow out my lawn sprinkler lines. Yet I had frozen lines every year.

    That's why I started putting some RV (non toxic) antifreeze in my sprinkler lines. I never did the math to see how much it would take, but considered that if I blew it through and for the most part out of the system, even if there was some backfall, that the partially antifreezed water would be softer than pure frozen water, and not be able to split the pipe. I used about 2 gallons for about 300 feet of pipe. lol... not enough As I mentioned above that I had two breaks over a 12 year period. One of those may have been due to tree roots.

    Today I calculated that 40' of 1/2 pipe holds 1.6 gallons.
    Last edited by Poppy; 05-10-2021 at 06:10 AM.
    My Grand Kids call me Poppy

  10. #250

    Default Re: Snowmageddon '21

    If you are talking about a pipe that begins over head but ends at a bit above ground level the an inline spigot valve with a brass cap on the spigot would act as a vacuum breaker and water would flow out naturally.

    I'm still trying to wrap my head around water pipe in the attic.
    John 3:16

  11. #251
    *Flashaholic* Poppy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Northern New Jersey
    Posts
    5,743

    Default Re: Snowmageddon '21

    Yes a bleeder valve could break the vacuum. I had one in my second house, that I used as a drain for the short length of pipe that was outside of the house leading to the back yard.

    Regarding water line in the attic? The house is on a slab. I guess the water line to the South side of the house was an after thought added when they put an addition on the house? I don't know.
    Last edited by Poppy; 05-10-2021 at 06:54 AM.
    My Grand Kids call me Poppy

  12. #252
    *Flashaholic* Lynx_Arc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Tulsa,OK
    Posts
    10,562

    Default Re: Snowmageddon '21

    If it is the only water line in the attic it was likely an addition. Slab construction however does lend to water lines in the attic. I worked on a new construction job where it had a lot of water spigots on the outside for growing plants outdoors that the lines ran up into the roof area. It was however pex so the problem of it breaking because of freezing was likely minimal.
    Yes they do have vacuum breakers on outside lines to help water drain, but also they are to keep from sucking foul water into the lines in your house from outside especially if the water gets turned off or you have low pressure or a break in the lines the water draining out would likely have water pressure from an outside attached hose etc pushing back into your house contaminating things. I guess it could keep you from accidentally drinking antifreeze if you have stupidly reconnected your sprinkler system back up after filling it for winter.

    Slab houses present all sorts of problems for plumbers when it comes to repair and remodels as to run new water lines you either have to tear up the concrete floors which is a lot of labor and messy or you have to tear up the walls to run it to water lines in them or you (the sometimes easiest way) run it in the attic. If you have water lines in a garage that is unheated you can have similar problems with water lines even though they aren't run in the attic. The advantage of running things in a slab is it minimizes exposure to the cold.
    I would think a sprinkler system run at a proper depth in the ground below the frost line would still have problems with the sprinkler heads as point of exposure . If I were to design a sprinkler system to drain it easily I would make for a low point (fall) in the pipes and connect a hose below it and have that run to a line so you can hook a pump up to it to suck most of the water out.
    I have pretty much no experience with lawn sprinkler systems however. I would also have a hookup for a high point in the system for both a vent to help drain the pipes and to pump in antifreeze.

    One option to prevent a pipe in the attic from freezing would be (and I've not heard of anyone doing this) is to install something like a water recirculating pump and hook it into the hot water system with a temperature regulator like many places put on sinks to give warm water and limit hot water temps to protect from burning people. This would however incur operating costs of having to power a pump and a higher water heating bill plus you would have to run more water line to connect a hot water line into it and a return line also.
    Fenix Split rings 1400+ sent, SWIVELS now available also!
    Psalm 112:4 Light shines in the darkness for the godly. They are generous, compassionate, and righteous.

  13. #253

    Default Re: Snowmageddon '21

    Huge flakes, heavy burst of snow here yesterday in northern IN. I like winter but can we be done now?
    GOOD TINT!

  14. #254
    *Flashaholic* turbodog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Southern USA
    Posts
    5,206

    Default Re: Snowmageddon '21

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Arc View Post
    If it is the only water line in the attic it was likely an addition. Slab construction however does lend to water lines in the attic. I worked on a new construction job where it had a lot of water spigots on the outside for growing plants outdoors that the lines ran up into the roof area. It was however pex so the problem of it breaking because of freezing was likely minimal.
    Yes they do have vacuum breakers on outside lines to help water drain, but also they are to keep from sucking foul water into the lines in your house from outside especially if the water gets turned off or you have low pressure or a break in the lines the water draining out would likely have water pressure from an outside attached hose etc pushing back into your house contaminating things. I guess it could keep you from accidentally drinking antifreeze if you have stupidly reconnected your sprinkler system back up after filling it for winter.

    Slab houses present all sorts of problems for plumbers when it comes to repair and remodels as to run new water lines you either have to tear up the concrete floors which is a lot of labor and messy or you have to tear up the walls to run it to water lines in them or you (the sometimes easiest way) run it in the attic. If you have water lines in a garage that is unheated you can have similar problems with water lines even though they aren't run in the attic. The advantage of running things in a slab is it minimizes exposure to the cold.
    I would think a sprinkler system run at a proper depth in the ground below the frost line would still have problems with the sprinkler heads as point of exposure . If I were to design a sprinkler system to drain it easily I would make for a low point (fall) in the pipes and connect a hose below it and have that run to a line so you can hook a pump up to it to suck most of the water out.
    I have pretty much no experience with lawn sprinkler systems however. I would also have a hookup for a high point in the system for both a vent to help drain the pipes and to pump in antifreeze.

    One option to prevent a pipe in the attic from freezing would be (and I've not heard of anyone doing this) is to install something like a water recirculating pump and hook it into the hot water system with a temperature regulator like many places put on sinks to give warm water and limit hot water temps to protect from burning people. This would however incur operating costs of having to power a pump and a higher water heating bill plus you would have to run more water line to connect a hot water line into it and a return line also.
    We have a circulating hot water system. If the hot water line is fairly close to the cold you will get enough heat conduction to keep the cold from freezing. Only downside is that 'cold' really isn't super cold in the summertime until you get the line flushed of the lukewarm water. This isn't reasonable to install for anything except new construction. It also was not our intended outcome... we just didn't want to wait for hot water. And, if I did it again, I would separate the hot/cold lines to AVOID heating up the cold water.
    This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time.
    Be prepared for the truth.

  15. #255
    *Flashaholic* Lynx_Arc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Tulsa,OK
    Posts
    10,562

    Default Re: Snowmageddon '21

    Quote Originally Posted by turbodog View Post
    We have a circulating hot water system. If the hot water line is fairly close to the cold you will get enough heat conduction to keep the cold from freezing. Only downside is that 'cold' really isn't super cold in the summertime until you get the line flushed of the lukewarm water. This isn't reasonable to install for anything except new construction. It also was not our intended outcome... we just didn't want to wait for hot water. And, if I did it again, I would separate the hot/cold lines to AVOID heating up the cold water.
    Many new construction are now putting pipe insulation on water lines which would mean you don't need to separate the lines that much. As for trying to update your current system to recirculating it is a big expense for many installations especially if you have to start cutting into walls. I don't have much knowledge of instant hot water solutions but if I were to build my own house I would consider that. I recall in a store I worked once we installed small 5 gallon electric hot water heaters for the bathrooms that were far from the main hot water heater. It was to act as a buffer to give hot water quickly till the flow of water from the main heater reached there as it was about 80-100 feet away If I remember correctly. It was doable in a store as we could install it in the ceiling above the bathroom but in a house may be less easily managed unless you had a decent attic to install it.
    What I would like to see is a house built with a hot water return system that only turns on for a short while, that is when it detects a need for hot water it turns on the recirculating pump and turns it off when the target water temp is finally hot enough thus saving the need to run hot water in a sink or tub waiting for it to warm up wasting a few gallons every time for a bathroom on the other side of the house.
    I have a 2 gallon bucket in my bathtub that I catch the water in when I'm about to take a shower dumping the cold water into it till it gets hot enough to not freeze me into a popsicle. Instant hot water heaters would work in this because if they were right in the bathroom area you would have hot water from them and it would be good for them to regulate the temp so they would shut down when the hot water from the tank reached that point.
    Fenix Split rings 1400+ sent, SWIVELS now available also!
    Psalm 112:4 Light shines in the darkness for the godly. They are generous, compassionate, and righteous.

  16. #256

    Default Re: Snowmageddon '21

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Arc View Post
    I have a 2 gallon bucket in my bathtub that I catch the water in when I'm about to take a shower dumping the cold water into it till it gets hot enough to not freeze me into a popsicle.
    What now? I'm not following you here.
    GOOD TINT!

  17. #257

    Default Re: Snowmageddon '21

    he is saying the water is. so cold at first so he saves the cold water for his nuclear reactors
    LED's have gotten too bright in our stuff. Many nights I'm awakened by my modem lights blinking.had help with my sig thank you for your help.

  18. #258
    *Flashaholic* Lynx_Arc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Tulsa,OK
    Posts
    10,562

    Default Re: Snowmageddon '21

    Quote Originally Posted by markr6 View Post
    What now? I'm not following you here.
    My shower is about 50 feet away from the water tank. I can turn on the hot water tap and it doesn't even start to get warm till about a gallon and a quarter comes out as the pipe between the tank and the bathroom cools off after a few hours. Instead of just letting the water run out till it gets hot enough (I have a diverter on the tub faucet for the shower) I put a bucket under it and use the water that would be wasted for my plants and a bird bath or I can dump it in the toilet tank. I know that if I save 2 gallons a day it isn't even 1000 gallons a year that that costs about $15 I think but if everyone did that (probably half a million houses) it could save about 1/4 of a billion gallons of water over a year?
    Fenix Split rings 1400+ sent, SWIVELS now available also!
    Psalm 112:4 Light shines in the darkness for the godly. They are generous, compassionate, and righteous.

  19. #259
    *Flashaholic* turbodog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Southern USA
    Posts
    5,206

    Default Re: Snowmageddon '21

    Probably, but water's cheap and time is more valuable than that.
    This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time.
    Be prepared for the truth.

  20. #260

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Cleveland,Oh
    Posts
    2,793

    Default Re: Snowmageddon '21

    It is cheap now, for us. For many, water is a precious commodity, not to be wasted.
    Why waste it if all it takes is a few extra minutes to conserve.
    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.
    -- Albert Einstein

  21. #261
    *Flashaholic* Lynx_Arc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Tulsa,OK
    Posts
    10,562

    Default Re: Snowmageddon '21

    Many waste more time sucking the life out of dead alkaleaks when a KWH costs about 15 cents at least with $15 per 1000 gallons it is 3 cents saved for 2 gallons (1.5 cents/gallon) a lot more savings than battery vampires do and a lot quicker to save that much.
    Fenix Split rings 1400+ sent, SWIVELS now available also!
    Psalm 112:4 Light shines in the darkness for the godly. They are generous, compassionate, and righteous.

  22. #262

    Default Re: Snowmageddon '21

    In summer I catch the water and use it to water stuff like flowers and dogs water bowls. In winter for house plants but they don't need very much and dog bowls but not as much is needed.
    Last edited by bykfixer; 05-10-2021 at 07:24 PM.
    John 3:16

  23. #263
    *Flashaholic* Lynx_Arc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Tulsa,OK
    Posts
    10,562

    Default Re: Snowmageddon '21

    Quote Originally Posted by bykfixer View Post
    In summer I catch the water and use it to water stuff like flowers and dogs water bowls. In winter for house plants but they don't need very much and dog bowls but not as much is needed.
    I had a few containers outside that filled with water that took awhile to use up as it kept raining.
    Anyway this thread is about snow and freezing there won't be any more here till around November.
    Fenix Split rings 1400+ sent, SWIVELS now available also!
    Psalm 112:4 Light shines in the darkness for the godly. They are generous, compassionate, and righteous.

  24. #264
    *Flashaholic* idleprocess's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    dfw.tx.us
    Posts
    5,896

    Default Re: Snowmageddon '21

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Arc View Post
    but if everyone did that (probably half a million houses) it could save about 1/4 of a billion gallons of water over a year?
    From your perspective the water is wasted, sure. But water is a nice stable molecule and whatever goes down the drain is promptly reused by someone downstream; as the city upstream of Dallas (Denton) likes to joke 'Dallas has water to drink because Denton flushes its toilets'.

    Quote Originally Posted by jabe1 View Post
    It is cheap now, for us. For many, water is a precious commodity, not to be wasted.
    Why waste it if all it takes is a few extra minutes to conserve.
    If you want to do something like capture water that would go down the drain waiting for the shower to warm, have at. But like my tendency to promptly use ice in left over fountain drink cups to chill some water out of the tap the savings are extraordinarily small as opposed to more meaningful changes - like not flood-irrigating thousands of square miles of lawns or not refrigerating one's dwelling down to 68F in the summer.
    I apologize that this letter is so long; I did not have time to write a short letter

  25. #265
    *Flashaholic* turbodog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Southern USA
    Posts
    5,206

    Default Re: Snowmageddon '21

    Quote Originally Posted by jabe1 View Post
    It is cheap now, for us. For many, water is a precious commodity, not to be wasted.
    Why waste it if all it takes is a few extra minutes to conserve.
    Because time is limited and there are far more efficient ways to boost water availability & quality.
    This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time.
    Be prepared for the truth.

  26. #266

    Default Re: Snowmageddon '21

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Arc View Post
    My shower is about 50 feet away from the water tank. I can turn on the hot water tap and it doesn't even start to get warm till about a gallon and a quarter comes out as the pipe between the tank and the bathroom cools off after a few hours. Instead of just letting the water run out till it gets hot enough (I have a diverter on the tub faucet for the shower) I put a bucket under it and use the water that would be wasted for my plants and a bird bath or I can dump it in the toilet tank. I know that if I save 2 gallons a day it isn't even 1000 gallons a year that that costs about $15 I think but if everyone did that (probably half a million houses) it could save about 1/4 of a billion gallons of water over a year?

    Got it! Oh I might have you beat. My water heater is in the basement which never gets cold, about 66-68° year round. Both bathrooms upstairs easily require a gallon or even two. I'll measure it sometime because now I'm curious.
    GOOD TINT!

Page 9 of 9 FirstFirst ... 23456789

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •