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Thread: So hard to find a good high cri light nowadays

  1. #91

    Default Re: So hard to find a good high cri light nowadays

    Yes, because CRI is a value that compares a specific CCT against an ideal black body radiant of the same CT, comparing CRI from differing CCTs isn't as meaningful as you would think.

    Below is a picture of 6 different emitter setups, they are as follows:

    Cree XHP35 HI
    4500k
    80 CRI
    Unknown R9

    Cree XHP35HI with 2 layers of Lee 804 minus green filters over it
    4500k
    80 cri
    Unknown R9

    Nichia Optisolis
    5000k
    99 CRI
    93+ R9

    Osram CSLPM1.TG
    5700k
    65 CRI
    Unknown R9

    Luminus SST-20 with 1 layer of Lee 804 minus green filter over it
    4000k
    95 CRI
    90+ R9

    Osram CSLPM1.TG with 2 layers of Lee 804 minus green filters over it
    5700k
    65 CRI
    Unknown R9


    All pictures were taken with a Sony A6300 and Sigma 35mm F1.4 in manual mode. 1/10 sec exposure, F / 3.2, iso 100, and in RAW format. RAW format gives me more control to fine-tune their exposure in Lightroom to closely match one another, and more importantly, adjust the color temperature of each picture's white balance to match the CCT of the emitter being used, without introducing color artifacting.

    Can you guess which one is which?


  2. #92
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    Default Re: So hard to find a good high cri light nowadays

    Can we stop calling 70 CRI low CRI? I mean, since when on a scale of 0-100 is 70 considered low? Just sayin'....
    What kind of self respecting nocturnal being cannot see in the dark, one way or another?

  3. #93
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    Default Re: So hard to find a good high cri light nowadays

    Quote Originally Posted by staticx57 View Post
    Let's play a game. Rank these, both by CRI and CRI R9
    Might as well post the answers to this question then. I measured these actual lights with my spectrophotometer. So I ranked them based upon their test results not what I saw on the beamshot. So

    SW45K in an HDS Rotary: CRI 96 R9 92
    LED 1 is an E21A Quadtrix 6500k in a PK Paladin with some diffusion CRI 96 R9 99
    LED 2 is an Optisolis 6500k in an Balaton also with some diffusion CRI 99 R9 96

    Heres the numbers:



  4. #94
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    Default Re: So hard to find a good high cri light nowadays

    Also interesting note, that while many here think CRI is about how much of one color there is positively affecting CRI, heres the R9 score of a Sofirn C01R which is a red light.
    You might think all that red would really help but no.




  5. #95

    Default Re: So hard to find a good high cri light nowadays

    Quote Originally Posted by twistedraven View Post
    adjust the color temperature of each picture's white balance to match the CCT of the emitter being used
    Im not sure I understand how changing the white balance in each photo, produces useful info
    it appears to have made the wood background inconsistent
    maybe it would help to have a daylight control shot as a reference.. ?

    tbh, I dont like guessing games
    I would prefer to see an example of the one you like, and share its CRI, CCT, and DUV specs.

    I originally thought you offered to post just 2 photos.. I find Six images, with modified white balance to boot, too complicated. I do hope you share your own personal prefferences.

    Quote Originally Posted by defloyd77 View Post
    Can we stop calling 70 CRI low CRI? I mean, since when on a scale of 0-100 is 70 considered low? Just sayin'....
    I also feel funny calling 70 "Low", but, I dont think 0CRI is a real thing..
    Ive never seen an LED w less than 65 CRI, and most Low CRI LEDs are 70CRI these days
    also, it seems consistent that LEDs with 70CRI have a Negative R9 CRI component (red things look brown)

    Quote Originally Posted by staticx57 View Post


    thank you for the data
    I dont think it would be possible to see the effect of R9 (Red) CRI on a White target..
    maybe it would have a more visible effect on showing the color of a Red object?

    In any case what are your personal observations and preferences among those options?

    Quote Originally Posted by staticx57 View Post
    heres the R9 score of a Sofirn C01R which is a red light.
    You might think all that red would really help but no.
    interesting example, definitely suprising

    maybe the CRI test is not relevant or applicable, for measuring monochromatic sources?

    I believe that is also true for lumens..
    a meter set up to measure the output of a "white" LED,
    does not have correct calibration to measure lumen output from monochromatic sources.
    Last edited by jon_slider; 05-03-2021 at 05:15 PM.
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  6. #96

    Default Re: So hard to find a good high cri light nowadays

    Quote Originally Posted by jon_slider View Post
    Im not sure I understand how changing the white balance in each photo, produces useful info
    it appears to have made the wood background inconsistent
    maybe it would help to have a daylight control shot as a reference.. ?

    tbh, I dont like guessing games
    I would prefer to see an example of the one you like, and share its CRI, CCT, and DUV specs.

    I originally thought you offered to post just 2 photos.. I find Six images, with modified white balance to boot, too complicated. I do hope you share your own personal prefferences.

    Here's the photo with the names applied:


    The idea of changing the white balance for each Emitter is simple: Our eyes work differently than a camera's. Our eyes adapt and white balance quickly whenever we are introduced to different color temperatures. If I just kept my camera in its default white balance I set of 'Sunlight' (5200k), then the Optisolis would have a huge advantage, showing the most amount of contrast of color, because it is closest to the whitepoint, whereas warmer LEDs would look overly orange. I'm not sure on the exact science of how our eyes white balance, but it's definitely something to factor when comparing tints.


    My original point was that CRI is such a subtle quality to light, and that tint+CC make a far greater difference. I've white balanced each of these 6 different setups, so all that's left to pick apart is tint+CRI differences. Even when white balanced equally to the Optisolis, you can see that the SST20 has more red saturation within it, because it has more red within its spectrum, but also just because it's a warmer LED. It's also a little more rosy as well. You can also see just how good you can came lower CRI sources look with minus green filters. Tint goes a looong way.

    My preference is the SST20 btw. It's my ROT66 gen2-- my go to hiking/camping light.
    Last edited by twistedraven; 05-03-2021 at 09:35 PM.

  7. #97
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    Default Re: So hard to find a good high cri light nowadays

    Quote Originally Posted by jon_slider View Post

    interesting example, definitely suprising

    maybe the CRI test is not relevant or applicable, for measuring monochromatic sources?

    I believe that is also true for lumens..
    a meter set up to measure the output of a "white" LED,
    does not have correct calibration to measure lumen output from monochromatic sources.
    That one bit was meant to be humorous. You cannot measure CRI or any component without white light. Without white light you don't have a CCT, without CCT what do you compare the light's output against.

  8. #98
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    Default Re: So hard to find a good high cri light nowadays

    Quote Originally Posted by twistedraven View Post

    Can you guess which one is which?
    I'll take a shot at it. Number 2 sticks out to me the most as it pops the least, I'm guessing that's the Osram. 4 and 6 to my eyes look to to pop the best, I'll guess 4 is the SST-20 and 6 the Nichia. Number 1 I think is the Cree with minus green. 3 and 5 have me stumped, but I think they're the Osram with minus green and the Cree.
    What kind of self respecting nocturnal being cannot see in the dark, one way or another?

  9. #99
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    Default Re: So hard to find a good high cri light nowadays

    Quote Originally Posted by jon_slider View Post
    thank you for the data
    I dont think it would be possible to see the effect of R9 (Red) CRI on a White target..
    maybe it would have a more visible effect on showing the color of a Red object?

    In any case what are your personal observations and preferences among those options?
    Here you go, Here is the E21A and the 219B against each other, trying my best to hold them far enough apart. I grabbed the E21A first so I just used it, I can try and compare with Optisolis if you are curious.



    What you see is a comparison mostly between CCT, the lower ~4500k has more red content and the ~6500k has less, this is expected given the difference between the two CCTs. If you look at the chart though you will see the SW45k actually produces too much red which lowers its R9 score. In the spectral output graph, red is tested blue is ideal. Look at how much better Optisolis is than both at matching its ideal source CCT. Then look at its CRI score, no wonder it scored so well.

    As for my preference, what I should really do is build a multi emitter 5700k Optisolis (since each LED doesn't produce much light. Glorious sunlight. In general though I prefer the cooler temps when I want things to be bright, this gives me the most color information as each color is pretty even in its output. When I want a warmer light ill go closer to 2700-3500k. 4000-5000k is in an awkward spot these days.

  10. #100

    Default So hard to find a good high cri light nowadays

    I have a 6x optisolis mule, 5700K. 3x 5000 + 3x 6500.

    this is a fantastic tint but I think I prefer the 6500k. nothing has been better to me than that

    in any case, the optisolis is head and shoulders above the e21a at any cct

  11. #101

    Default Re: So hard to find a good high cri light nowadays

    twistedraven said: My preference is the SST20

    thanks
    I think you mean 4000k with a Lee filter to reduce the green tint


    staticx57 said: 5700k Optisolis

    thanks for sharing your personal preference in High CRI options


    ma tumba said: Optisolis… 6500k

    thanks for your contribution also

    I had a 6500k Optisolis.. for me it was way too cool, and I did not like the green tint either

    my personal preference is N219b 4500k 9080 sw45k D200

    ---

    Re: So hard to find a good high cri light nowadays

    it seems there is a pretty wide range of personal preferences..

    choices are good
    WTB: Lumintop FWAA

  12. #102
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    Default Re: So hard to find a good high cri light nowadays

    Quote Originally Posted by jon_slider View Post

    my personal preference is N219b 4500k 9080 sw45k D200
    If you add a lee eighth plus green to your sw45k you will improve its R9

  13. #103

    Default Re: So hard to find a good high cri light nowadays

    Im happy for you, if you enjoy Lee Filters

    personally, I am not a fan of Lee Filters
    1. They reduce output
    2. Cleaning is an issue because the dye wipes off with alcohol
    3. They make the output unnaturally pink
    4. It is a plastic film subject to heat deformation and scratching
    5. It adds lipstick to a pig

    I have used Lee Filters to Improve Low CRI Olights with XM-L2 and XP-G3 LEDs, because it made the Tint nicer, but it did not create a High CRI output, and red things still look brown.

    I prefer to change the LED to one of the High CRI options mentioned above, than try to enhance a Low CRI LED, using a dyed plastic filter.
    Last edited by jon_slider; 05-04-2021 at 05:19 PM.
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  14. #104
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    Default Re: So hard to find a good high cri light nowadays

    I’d love to lay out 25-30 flashlights with one high cri sample in a real world scenario and see how many people could pick it out.
    Big butnotsomuch-burly

  15. #105
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    Default Re: So hard to find a good high cri light nowadays

    Quote Originally Posted by bigburly912 View Post
    I’d love to lay out 25-30 flashlights with one high cri sample in a real world scenario and see how many people could pick it out.
    ... while grilling at night ... opcorn
    Last edited by archimedes; 05-04-2021 at 09:17 PM.
    ... is the archimedes peak

  16. #106

    Default Re: So hard to find a good high cri light nowadays

    Zircon filters are professional 'gels' that are used for tint and CCT correction in professional photography and videography. They are not subject to fading or smearing that easily.

    They do however reduce output, yes.

    Minus green filters don't just make the light output more 'unnaturally' pink. They are what they say-- minus green. They take a light that's green-tinted, and make it neutral. In most cases it actually increases the light's CRI and R9 values, because with the more balanced output spectrum, the light is a better match to its black body radiant. As can be seen in my batch of pictures, the 65cri Osram looks very similar to the 80 cri XHP35 HI when you put a couple minus greens over it. It takes a very discerning eye to see that the reds are a little better on the Cree.

    I only use the Zircon filters in Optics lights however, because of how easy it is to sandwich it between the optics and lens. It gets trickier to use them in reflector lights.
    Last edited by twistedraven; 05-04-2021 at 09:25 PM.

  17. #107
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    Default Re: So hard to find a good high cri light nowadays

    I'm very happy with the Convoy S2+ with LH351D 2700k and 5700k emitters. Excellent lights for night photography illumination, especially when combined with diffusers.

  18. #108
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    Default Re: So hard to find a good high cri light nowadays

    Quote Originally Posted by bigburly912 View Post
    I’d love to lay out 25-30 flashlights with one high cri sample in a real world scenario and see how many people could pick it out.

    What's the flashlight equivalent to a Master Sommerlier?

  19. #109

    Default Re: So hard to find a good high cri light nowadays

    Just got a 4500k Fireflies Nov-mu I ordered a couple days ago. This is the purest white light I've ever seen. It's probably closer to 4800k-5000k tbh, and very pleasant color output. Not green looking, not pink looking, just neutral. Very cool mule idea from Fireflies-- this is probably the best mule I've ever seen. The added diffuser makes it very efficient and effective as a lantern as well.

  20. #110

    Default Re: So hard to find a good high cri light nowadays

    Quote Originally Posted by twistedraven View Post
    Just got a 4500k Fireflies Nov-mu I ordered a couple days ago.
    Congratulations, looks like a great Mule light, and even has aux leds and Anduril UI.. winner!:
    Quote Originally Posted by FireFlies
    this test data shows E21a 4500k has a nice negative duv:
    Quote Originally Posted by SKV89
    FF NOV-MU
    E21a 4671K
    -0.0025 DUV
    96.8 CRI Ra
    85.3 CRI R9
    compare to sw45k 219b:
    219b 4530K
    -0.0055 DUV
    97 CRI Ra
    97 CRI R9

    E21a has less pink tint than 219b 4500k, and less CRI R9

    Color temperature (CCT), and Tint (duv):

    People who find the 219b too pink, like the less pink E21a.
    imo both are great LEDs, with great color rendering.
    Last edited by jon_slider; 05-08-2021 at 06:55 AM.
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  21. #111
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    Default Re: So hard to find a good high cri light nowadays

    Jon, this one is tripping you up a bit. Performance of an LED especially the older style LEDs like 219b vary wildly with mules. Based upon what I am seeing with that test assuming it is a head on measurement that the E21A, or at least in that array is far more consistent across its varying angles.

    Take a look at 219b:



    Placed in a mule you are not getting 4500k CRI 97 R9 97 across the entire beam. I have done this before with this (and SW40) and they tend to look like this:




    And finally as it sat in a reflector. Yea, it averages out fine but you need to take the optical system into consideration. Also yes, this is not CRI 97 R9 97 as you are only guaranteed R9080 which this exceeds. Not all batches are the same.

  22. #112

    Default Re: So hard to find a good high cri light nowadays

    Yeah, when you place the provided lampshade diffuser over the E21A 4500k Mule array on the Nov-Mu, the CRI and R9 go up, even though the duv also goes up.

    The E21As as a mule array suffer some green edging, but nothing like that 219B.

  23. #113

    Default Re: So hard to find a good high cri light nowadays

    Well, I'm back to the drawing board again. I received my Noctigon KR4 with the quad E21As and although it's really nice, it will not work for EDC for me, it is just too thick. It is also very floody, but I want a traditional LED and reflector with spot/spill. So now I am looking at backordered AA Zebralights or I don't know what else. I guess unless it's a really thin 18650 light, I may have to switch to CR123a or AA as my battery. High cri is preferred, as well as around 4000k tint. I might have to sell the KR4 to afford another light. Maybe I should just stick to my olight baton 3 but I hate that blue tint.

    I guess it is hard to find a good EDC high cri light when everything is sold out or backordered. I had to wait 3 weeks for my KR4 just to find that it doesn't work for me.
    So now I am back at square one, looking for the prefect EDC high cri light.

    Please help a flashlight fan who is running out of ideas, thanks.
    Last edited by TA_ls1; 05-12-2021 at 03:58 PM.

  24. #114
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    Default Re: So hard to find a good high cri light nowadays

    Have you looked at the EagleTac D25LC2 Clicky with CRI-92 4000k Nichia 219b? 4.5" long with a .9" diameter.
    18650 lights don't come much slimmer than that.

    I've been carrying the D25C2 (single CR123) 219b since it came in. Great EDC platform.

    Looks like the FW3A on 18650 has the same dimensions as an HDS Executive on CR123. Great price. But Hi-CRI availability looks to be a problem right now.

    Not 18650 or EDC, but I just ordered the Sofirn IF25A to try out the UI and 95-CRI 4000k SST-20. A buddy was enamored of my USB-chargeable hand-sized Acebeam 26500 lights (EC50 II Neutral flood and EC60vn cool throw, but neither is Hi-CRI.) Availability on those has been nil of late, as well, so I grabbed an IF25A for him as well. At that price, why not? Should be perfect for his use inspecting commercial buildings under construction.
    Last edited by tjswarbrick; Yesterday at 12:17 PM.

  25. #115

    Default Re: So hard to find a good high cri light nowadays

    I looked into the Eagletac, not sure I'm a fan of the UI though.
    I actually bought the Sofirn IF25A as well and really like it. It helps me realize I like around a 4000k tint. The Anduril UI is nice too.

    I did hear back from Zebralight and there's just a week wait time on the SC5c and the SC5w. I know the SC5w is not high cri but I may go with it because I've read there may be green tint on the SC5c. Does anyone else have these lights and have input?
    Last edited by TA_ls1; 05-12-2021 at 04:02 PM.

  26. #116

    Default Re: So hard to find a good high cri light nowadays

    Quote Originally Posted by TA_ls1 View Post
    I looked into the Eagletac, not sure I'm a fan of the UI though.

    I did hear back from Zebralight and there's just a week wait time on the SC5c and the SC5w. I know the SC5w is not high cri but I may go with it because I've read there may be green tint on the SC5c. Does anyone else have these lights and have input?
    I have SC5w but i swapped emitter with sliced Samsung 351D 5000K. Stock emitter was green, puke green.







    Sent from Tapatalk

  27. #117
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    Default Re: So hard to find a good high cri light nowadays

    Quote Originally Posted by TA_ls1 View Post
    I looked into the Eagletac, not sure I'm a fan of the UI though.
    I picked up an ET D25LC2-MKII w/SST-20/4000K/HiCRI emitter recently, and it's pretty decent. Dimensions are minimal for the 18650 format with conventional reflector, and the UI has enough options (power-on at MAX, last level, or any selectable level), output level of LOW, etc.) to make it pretty easy to live with. If it only had 2-stage 'momentary / maintained-on' switch, I'd buy another one (the T version does, but not with an emitter I wanted). It'll put some decent candelas of HCRI light on a target downrange. It may not be exactly what I'd spec, but is OK for what I bought it for as a off-the-shelf production light from a good domestic distributor in 18650 w/decent emitter. I'd prefer something closer to daylight CCT, but it'll work for me.

  28. #118
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    Default Re: So hard to find a good high cri light nowadays

    Very happy with my brace of Hi-CRI EDC lights of various sizes and beams. 3 of the 4 found off-the-shelf in the past month, because of this thread.

    ReyLight (Cu) Pineapple with Nichia 219B 4500k R9080 Hi CRI
    EagleTac D25C Clicky MkII with Nichia 219C R9050 CRI-92
    McGizmo SunDrop XR-U with Nichia 119V Hi CRI
    Sofirn IF25A with (4) Luminus SST-20 4000k CRI-95







    D25C rides in my pocket most of the time for a number of reasons (size, easy UI, ease of replacement, etc.) But any could, all are very useful with great color rendition and beam patters, and yet they complement one another very well, each being most suitable for particular scenarios.
    Last edited by tjswarbrick; Yesterday at 12:17 PM.

  29. #119

    Default Re: So hard to find a good high cri light nowadays

    Quote Originally Posted by id30209 View Post
    beautiful work!


    Quote Originally Posted by tjswarbrick
    D25C rides in my pocket most of the time for a number of reasons
    congrats on the very nice selection


    these are my favorite High CRI lights, all modded to 219b 4500k:



    there is a new High CRI light on my radar, the Lumintop FWAA
    choice of three High CRI options:
    Quote Originally Posted by zeroair
    Im barely resisting.. claiming to be waiting for the titanium version
    Last edited by jon_slider; Yesterday at 07:00 PM.
    WTB: Lumintop FWAA

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