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Thread: Li-ion Power tool batteries

  1. #1
    Flashaholic
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    Default Li-ion Power tool batteries

    I've got a Porter Cable drill battery that's dead, my question is do they usually have a BMS inside them?
    Kinda thinking of taking it apart and replace the li-ion cells inside it. How else would the cells charge evenly on the charger?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Li-ion Power tool batteries

    My question to you is : do you think they could be [legally] sold on your market without a BMS ?

    Cheers.


    PS: what voltage is your battery ?
    Last edited by coffeecup66; 04-15-2021 at 03:08 PM.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Li-ion Power tool batteries

    Obviously in my post I "did" think they have a BMS inside them, but was not sure if there was something more to it.
    So it seems it would be a simple swapping of a few cells and soldering. I've not had the need to do this before.
    It's a 20V.
    Last edited by LED Monkey; 04-15-2021 at 03:26 PM.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Li-ion Power tool batteries

    It's just to clarify a forum thread for readers. I figured you knew it had BMS.

    But have you checked for low voltage in your "dead-ish" battery ? (before going to the lengths of tearing it open and replacing/resoldering all that nice stuff)

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Li-ion Power tool batteries

    It will not take any charge at all, It's 1 of the 2 that came with the drill, If I do take it apart I can check each cell for there condition. If I go ahead and replace the cell it would be all the cells for obvious reasons .
    Last edited by LED Monkey; 04-15-2021 at 03:37 PM.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Li-ion Power tool batteries

    Did you put a multi-meter to it to check it's voltage ?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Li-ion Power tool batteries

    no I have not at this point.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Li-ion Power tool batteries

    Ok. It could be that your battery just has an 'under-security-threshold" voltage and thus, your charger refuses to charge it.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Li-ion Power tool batteries

    BTW, did you buy this set in a local store recently ?

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Li-ion Power tool batteries

    Well I guess I could remove the cells and try to charge each one separately . It might bring them back up to where the charger would charge them again.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Li-ion Power tool batteries

    Local yes, recently not really , maybe 3-4 years ago. And I do think it's probably 1 bad or too low of voltage cell in the pack.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Li-ion Power tool batteries



    NB: Disclaimer: posted for entertainment purposes only.



    If you got it recently in a local shop, take it back to the store with your receipt and ask (after faulty demonstration if needed) for a replacement or a refund.

    (Edit: guess I wrote the above line while you were posting your last answer ! )
    Last edited by coffeecup66; 04-15-2021 at 03:59 PM.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Li-ion Power tool batteries

    I've read threads of doing this with "single" cells but I didn't think about doing this with the battery pack. Thanks I'll give this a go.

    PS. Should I tell my attorney coffeecup66 said it's ok? just kiddin.

  14. #14
    Flashaholic* orbital's Avatar
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    Default Re: Li-ion Power tool batteries

    +

    I'v done NiCad setting 'trick' to a couple Li-Po batteries; that were over discharged & weren't recognized by my charger, at all.
    Saved one of my expensive Li-Po battery & a friends.

    If my lithium power tool battery wasn't recognized by my charger, I'd try give it a go for that too.
    just keep an eye on it (btw it's only like .1A in NiCad mode for 5~10 minutes, so you can then go to your normal charger)

    It's not unlike a Manual setting on an old school charger, so to speak
    Last edited by orbital; 04-15-2021 at 05:10 PM. Reason: add

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    Default Re: Li-ion Power tool batteries

    You can check the pack condition by measuring the voltage across the + and - pins with a meter. You need a torx with a hole in the middle to open the pack up and can test individual cells once you have it out of the case. I have one dead Black and Decker tool battery of which Porter Cable batteries are almost identical in the electronics and pinouts you can use 20v PC batteries in B&D 20v tools with a slight modification.
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  16. #16
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    Default Re: Li-ion Power tool batteries

    Yes it looks like security T bits to take it apart. They get ya pretty good $$ on OEM battery packs. It hasn't been used all that much, I hope I didn't put it away too low state of charge.

  17. #17

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    Default Re: Li-ion Power tool batteries

    Most likely one cell is bad. I have two 9ah Milwaukee 18v batteries that have gone bad recently. After contacting them, they sent me two replacements.
    I saw a vid on YouTube of someone breaking down a Porter Cable 20v pack; lg cells tab welded together and no protection circuitry. Should be possible to replace them, if you can spot weld the tabs.
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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Li-ion Power tool batteries

    Quote Originally Posted by jabe1 View Post
    ...
    I saw a vid on YouTube of someone breaking down a Porter Cable 20v pack; lg cells tab welded together and no protection circuitry. Should be possible to replace them, if you can spot weld the tabs.

    Just so that there are no misunderstandings.


    There is a big difference between "waking up" a "sleeping" battery pack, and taking a faulty battery pack apart and reassembling it with other cells.

    The difference is serious potential liability.

    Waking up a sleeping batt. pack is a function that certain chargers integrate.

    Rebuilding faulty battery packs in your home, on the other hand, could make you an uncertified (and therefore unauthorized) battery assembler.


    So I sure would like to see a video that shows a Porter Cable 20v pack with "no protection circuitry".
    Last edited by coffeecup66; 04-15-2021 at 11:42 PM.

  19. #19
    Flashaholic* orbital's Avatar
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    Default Re: Li-ion Power tool batteries

    +

    Forgot to mention this last night.
    I did the Li-ion 'resuscitation' to a brand new Keeppower 26650*. Order a few & one was not charged up from the factory.
    It did not get recognized in either on my lithium chargers, so I put it on a NiCad charger for a little while,, woke it up and finished it on my lithium charger.

    all good


    *I'll bet most people here would have fired back an email to the seller & yelling/demanding a new cell ect!!!
    ..instead of dealing with it.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Li-ion Power tool batteries

    Just a quick update on the power tool battery pack. The jump start method did the trick, I took a good pack and a couple jumper wires pos to pos / neg to neg 10 minutes later it would take a charge on the Porter Cable charger.
    coffeecup66

  21. #21
    *Flashaholic* Lynx_Arc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Li-ion Power tool batteries

    I have a black & decker 20v battery that I think the electronics is bad. It measures 18v and I checked each battery which average about 3.6v within 1v of that and I get red blinking light on it. I think the batteries are fine.
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  22. #22
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    Default Re: Li-ion Power tool batteries

    Quote Originally Posted by LED Monkey View Post
    Just a quick update on the power tool battery pack. The jump start method did the trick, I took a good pack and a couple jumper wires pos to pos / neg to neg 10 minutes later it would take a charge on the Porter Cable charger.
    coffeecup66

    That's cool : less waste ! (but then... Oh nooon : rebound effect !!)


    As Guv'nor Arnold could have said : "It's what you call team verk in battery pack revival !" (from the Dinah Shore Show).

    You're welcome LED Monkey, the follow up is very much appreciated.

    Cheers.

    PS : I would cycle it a couple times, just to get it "back up to speed" and see if it's back to OK status.
    Last edited by coffeecup66; 04-18-2021 at 07:58 PM.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Li-ion Power tool batteries

    Black & Decker, battery measures good but will not charge: Check the little black thermistor - should be 7.5k to 10k ohms. 2k or so is a bad thermistor. Also, your batteries should be within 0.1 volts of each other - 1 volt is way out of tolerance. Charge each cell separately to equalize the pack, then put it in the charger.
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  24. #24
    *Flashaholic* Lynx_Arc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Li-ion Power tool batteries

    Quote Originally Posted by n3eg View Post
    Black & Decker, battery measures good but will not charge: Check the little black thermistor - should be 7.5k to 10k ohms. 2k or so is a bad thermistor. Also, your batteries should be within 0.1 volts of each other - 1 volt is way out of tolerance. Charge each cell separately to equalize the pack, then put it in the charger.
    I'm charging the cells.... there was a 0.2v variance I think the thermistor is a black blob on the bottom of the circuit board with a copper wire sticking into some black potting into the battery pack.
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