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Thread: H9 based LED's sought for 90mm Hella motorcycle lights - remmendations needed.

  1. #1

    Default H9 based LED's sought for 90mm Hella motorcycle lights - remmendations needed.

    Good evening All,

    I need to present a little background, pics, and calculations here before getting to the real question (please bear with me).

    Background: So I picked up an aftermarket fairing for a small, dual sport motorcycle, that I have been wanting to try. It came with two 90mm Hella headlights (one hi and one low beam), powered with 65w Phillips halogens, with a H9 base (#'s on the bulb were H9/d52 and 12382)... The longer lamp on the left (Viewed from the back) is the low beam, with a metal block on the lower half, which reflects the light to the top, and then downward to the road (hence - low beam)... The Hi beam (right - from the back) is just a standard round reflector..
    The fairing manufacturer is currently using lamps with Cyclops LED bulbs(@ $70/each...ouch!) They give him the lowest warranty rate but, they are in different lamps than my older fairing... He says that motorcycle applications need a bulb that withstands vibration better than for passenger cars... He told me to try the Phillips LED's for $40 for 2, as it was my own project LOL.

    [IMG][/IMG]
    [IMG][/IMG]


    Calculations:
    The bike itself has only a 100-110W AC generator. I am told once you change that to DC (using a rectifier), you get about 50% (which is a little conservative).... So, with Virgil's help I have ordered a tail light bulb that draws only 2.3W, leaving 50W left for both headlights.


    Finally, the question: Can someone give me direction on what brand, product line, or style, of H9 based LED's that work well as halogen replacements, and will withstand vibration???
    They probably won't be 200% more, as I am limited to 25W/each... My initial research told me it is hard to figure some of the LED replacements wattage, but with enough digging it can be found!. I can do the research.... Some experienced direction would be greatly appreciated!!

    Thanks in advance!!

    Keith

  2. #2

    Default Re: H9 based LED's sought for 90mm Hella motorcycle lights - remmendations needed.

    Welcome to the board.

    "LED bulbs" are not legitimate and do not work. They are not safe, effective, or legal, no matter what brand they are. There's a good, detailed article about the subject here. If the fairing manufacturer is selling his product with "LED bulbs" installed, he is violating the law and endangering his customers. I hope he knows more about fairing design and manufacture than he knows about lighting, because he also made a poor choice of headlamp modules. Those H9-powered Hella modules are pretty ancient technology as far as 90mm headlamps go, and an H9 bulb is very power-hungry and not especially vibrationproof --- this is the wrong choice for a motorcycle application, and cramming in so-called "LED bulbs" is not the right way to fix it. The correct way to have LED headlamps is...to have LED headlamps! Hella makes a variety of excellent (and legitiate) LED 90mm headlamp modules that will fit right in place of the H9 dinosaurs, and then you will actually have LED headlamps that are effective, safe, legal, durable, vibrationproof and weigh a lot less. Probably the ones you'd want are the new "R80" modules, which have efficient reflector optics and very light weight/low power draw, perfect for a motorcycle application.

  3. #3

    Default Re: H9 based LED's sought for 90mm Hella motorcycle lights - remmendations needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Virgil- View Post
    Welcome to the board.

    "LED bulbs" are not legitimate and do not work. They are not safe, effective, or legal, no matter what brand they are. There's a good, detailed article about the subject here. If the fairing manufacturer is selling his product with "LED bulbs" installed, he is violating the law and endangering his customers. I hope he knows more about fairing design and manufacture than he knows about lighting, because he also made a poor choice of headlamp modules. Those H9-powered Hella modules are pretty ancient technology as far as 90mm headlamps go, and an H9 bulb is very power-hungry and not especially vibrationproof --- this is the wrong choice for a motorcycle application, and cramming in so-called "LED bulbs" is not the right way to fix it. The correct way to have LED headlamps is...to have LED headlamps! Hella makes a variety of excellent (and legitiate) LED 90mm headlamp modules that will fit right in place of the H9 dinosaurs, and then you will actually have LED headlamps that are effective, safe, legal, durable, vibrationproof and weigh a lot less. Probably the ones you'd want are the new "R80" modules, which have efficient reflector optics and very light weight/low power draw, perfect for a motorcycle application.

    Good evening,
    And that right there is why I joined this forum..... As I get older, I find myself being more meticulous, more safety minded, and slower, thus I only have time to do projects one way... The RIGHT WAY!!
    Virgil - you are "Da Man"!!! don't ever change.... and don't ever "sugarcoat" your replies!!! Thank you for taking the time to study my pics, and backing your response with a well written article (that even a lowly Mechanical engineer can understand). The fairing manufacturer is definitely more of a fairing designer, and gets electrical help from Future Vision.... My fairing is a older design, that was sold with halogens, and they have now moved to LED lamps.
    So now with a new perspective, my goal has been revised: I need two 90mm LED lamps (one hi, one low) that will mount in my fairing, withstand motorcycle type vibration, and draw a total of 50W (or less).
    So before I dive into the search process, the question of the day is: "In the 90mm light world, is there any other brands, or product lines that should be considered, other than Hella (R80's)??"

    Thank you for your time, and patience,
    Keith

  4. #4

    Default Re: H9 based LED's sought for 90mm Hella motorcycle lights - remmendations needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dunlopdev View Post
    So before I dive into the search process, the question of the day is:"In the 90mm light world, is there any other brands, or product lines that should be considered, other than Hella (R80's)??"
    J.W. Speaker also offers 90mm LED headlamps - the Model 93. I don't know how they compare performance-wise to the Hellas though.

  5. #5

    Default Re: H9 based LED's sought for 90mm Hella motorcycle lights - remmendations needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dunlopdev View Post
    As I get older, I find myself being more meticulous, more safety minded, and slower, thus I only have time to do projects one way... The RIGHT WAY!!
    Happens to the best of us :-)

    Virgil - you are "Da Man"!!! don't ever change.... and don't ever "sugarcoat" your replies!
    There's no danger; I'm much too of a dog to learn a new trick like that.

    I need two 90mm LED lamps (one hi, one low) that will mount in my fairing, withstand motorcycle type vibration, and draw a total of 50W (or less).
    I would call the R80s the top choice, being the most closely suited to this set of criteria, and also the lightest weight (lowest mass) and lowest current draw. That being said, the JW Speaker Model 93 line jaycee mentions includes a motorcycle-specific low beam module that produces a symmetrical low beam light distribution. The Hella R80 low beam is asymmetrical. These aren't better/worse, they're different. The non-motorcycle asymmetrical low beam complies with a standard that requires higher performance than the standard for the symmetrical low beam, and there's no legality issue either (motorcycles can legally use car headlamps, just not the other way around). The asymmetrical low beam will give longer seeing distance down the right side/shorter down the left side of straight roads, and in right curves, with the disadvantage of somewhat shorter seeing distance toward left angles when you are in a left curve. The tighter the curve and/or higher the speed you're taking it (greater bank angle), the less of a difference between the two. The symmetrical beam will subtract the same amount of seeing distance in left and right curves. There have been many motorcycles built with both types of low beam, and both types of beam have long been widely accepted in use. The performance characteristics of a specific headlamp design are more important to the rider's experience than which kind of low beam is produced. The main benefit of the symmetrical beam is not to the rider but to the bike manufacturer -- it allows one low beam to be used in all markets instead of having one for the US market, another for the rest of the world's right-side traffic markets, and a third for the world's left-side traffic markets.

    The R80 is almost brand new, introductionwise. I got mine from Daniel Stern ("Just put it on my tab", LOL!)

  6. #6

    Default Re: H9 based LED's sought for 90mm Hella motorcycle lights - remmendations needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Virgil- View Post
    The R80 is almost brand new, introductionwise. I got mine from Daniel Stern ("Just put it on my tab", LOL!)
    Wow, Wow, Wow, this just keeps getting better!!!! DANIEL STERN ARE YOU LURKING AROUND HERE??? SEND ME A COUPLE OF SETS OVER ASAP!!... AND JUST PUT IT ON VIRGIL'S TAB!! LOL

    I am off to read about the R80's.... Right now I am intrigued by them because of the longer seeing distance on the right, which in this town may be beneficial due to lots of parking on the roadside. This doesn't mean I am gone, it just means that when I return, hopefully "I will be confused on a higher level!"

    Thanks again,
    Keith

  7. #7

    Default Re: H9 based LED's sought for 90mm Hella motorcycle lights - remmendations needed.

    Well, I think I have read everything there is available on the R80 series, at this time....Virgil wasn't kidding, these are very newly released.... Of the 8 part numbers released, it appears that only one is readily available right now. I was trying to get a direction for this project, so I knew if I should be trying to get more power out of the bike (rewind the stater), or what, so I could hit the ground running in the fall, when I return.... I am going to have to hope there is both more info, and more product availability, in the fall.

    The only thing that bothers me slightly is, that I can't find anything about the power consumption of any of the R80 series lights!!

    Keith

  8. #8

    Default Re: H9 based LED's sought for 90mm Hella motorcycle lights - remmendations needed.

    Of the 8 part numbers released, it appears that only one is readily available right now
    I don't think that's the case; I bought three different ones just a couple-few weeks ago.

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