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Thread: HIGH internal resistance eneloops

  1. #1

    Default HIGH internal resistance eneloops

    I've had a few eneloops report HIGH resistance on my C9000 charger. I've had them for several years, but I don't think I've put them through very many cycles. I did have some batteries that were stored in a "Titanium" branded charger. Is it possible it killed them? I had another battery that sat in a Zebralight (unused) for several years. I'm pretty sure it was OK when it went in, but I get the HIGH error now. Can a battery get damaged just sitting in a light? Is there any way to "fix" these batteries?

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    *Flashaholic* Lynx_Arc's Avatar
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    Default Re: HIGH internal resistance eneloops

    Yes batteries can be damaged by sitting in some devices if they have parasitic drain to them. I would NOT store batteries in any charger long term. It is fine to leave them there for awhile after you charge them but storing them is not recommended. There are some lights and devices that are poorly designed and can drain batteries in a few months.. dead. A decent light should not drain a battery on standby faster than about 5-7 years. multiple batteries in series can be drained such that one goes dead and the other reverse charges it some and this can damage batteries big time. In situations where this type of thing can happen you have to take steps to eliminate any chance of over discharging them in the device they are in.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: HIGH internal resistance eneloops

    The battery could have been in the zebralight for 5 years. (I thought zebralight was decent!) But is drained the same thing as having high resistance?

  4. #4

    Default Re: HIGH internal resistance eneloops

    Quote Originally Posted by adrianmariano View Post
    The battery could have been in the zebralight for 5 years. (I thought zebralight was decent!) But is drained the same thing as having high resistance?

    I some ways, yes. Internal resistance is not fixed, it generally gets higher the lower the state of charge - you might be able to get them to charge on your charger by first charging part way on a dumb charger or any charger that doesn't reject them. This will decrease the IR, maybe to the point that it will charge next time if you don't run it all the way down. Chances are though, being over discharged for years, that the cells are pretty badly damaged.

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    *Flashaholic* Lynx_Arc's Avatar
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    Default Re: HIGH internal resistance eneloops

    Quote Originally Posted by adrianmariano View Post
    The battery could have been in the zebralight for 5 years. (I thought zebralight was decent!) But is drained the same thing as having high resistance?
    Not necessarily. It is possible you left the battery in the light discharged some and the parasitic drain of the light drained it the rest of the way. The only way to tell for sure is to either look up and see if someone checked the lights drain or check it yourself with a meter. Typically when a battery gets high IR it causes it to self discharge a lot faster but often by it being discharged too deeply it could be damaged by and the IR could be higher as a result.
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  6. #6

    Default Re: HIGH internal resistance eneloops

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Arc View Post
    Not necessarily. It is possible you left the battery in the light discharged some and the parasitic drain of the light drained it the rest of the way. The only way to tell for sure is to either look up and see if someone checked the lights drain or check it yourself with a meter. Typically when a battery gets high IR it causes it to self discharge a lot faster but often by it being discharged too deeply it could be damaged by and the IR could be higher as a result.
    Is there a way to check this with a regular multi-meter? I was actually thinking of trying to run a flashlight from a power supply and wondering what current it requires when it's turned on, but it's not obvious how to measure things since the light is closed up when operating. (The power supply that comes with the replacement battery kit is 1A, but it seems hard to find supplies with higher current.)

    Neither of my two chargers seem to be dumb enough to try to charge the bad batteries. I saw a suggestion to take overly drained batteries and short them together with fully charged good batteries to try to partly charge them up. Is that a reasonable thing to do? Or should I just give up on my "HIGH" batteries? (I don't want to kill more batteries trying to fix the bad ones.)

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    Default Re: HIGH internal resistance eneloops

    I am no expert on the phenomenon by any means, but have another data point.

    I have a group of Eneloop AAA used constantly in my bike flashers. After maybe 10 years, some started to read HIGH in my C9000, yet the cells definitely had decent power and worked. I put these cells into a light and drained them for a while, then found the C9000 would charge them. This got tiresome, but I also wanted to try a new charger (an Xtar); I found that it happily charged these cells, and even do capacity tests. However, I thought it best to just replace the cells.

    I've never had an AA Eneloop have this problem.

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    *Flashaholic* Lynx_Arc's Avatar
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    Default Re: HIGH internal resistance eneloops

    Quote Originally Posted by adrianmariano View Post
    Is there a way to check this with a regular multi-meter? I was actually thinking of trying to run a flashlight from a power supply and wondering what current it requires when it's turned on, but it's not obvious how to measure things since the light is closed up when operating. (The power supply that comes with the replacement battery kit is 1A, but it seems hard to find supplies with higher current.)

    Neither of my two chargers seem to be dumb enough to try to charge the bad batteries. I saw a suggestion to take overly drained batteries and short them together with fully charged good batteries to try to partly charge them up. Is that a reasonable thing to do? Or should I just give up on my "HIGH" batteries? (I don't want to kill more batteries trying to fix the bad ones.)
    If you have a digital meter with a low dc ma scale you can check it I think the light has a tailcap to it of some sort you take off the tail cap and put the meter on the lowest ma scale and touch one terminal to the battery, the other to the tube of the light that isn't anodized and you should see a reading on the meter. You can take the total mah of the battery in the light and divide it by that amount on the meter and that gives you the number of hours it should take to drain the light. You will have to first divide by 24 to get days then 365 for years. If the years are less than 1-2 you've got a light that you can't store a battery in at all. If it is 5-7+ years then you should check the light every year or so. Lights that drain batteries too quickly either need to be locked out (circuit broken) or batteries removed.
    If a light can drain itself in less than a year then if it were mine I would replace it as it will sooner or later ruin batteries if you don't use it once a week then it may be sooner or later you don't use it once a year even.
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    *Flashaholic* Lynx_Arc's Avatar
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    Default Re: HIGH internal resistance eneloops

    Quote Originally Posted by louie View Post
    I am no expert on the phenomenon by any means, but have another data point.

    I have a group of Eneloop AAA used constantly in my bike flashers. After maybe 10 years, some started to read HIGH in my C9000, yet the cells definitely had decent power and worked. I put these cells into a light and drained them for a while, then found the C9000 would charge them. This got tiresome, but I also wanted to try a new charger (an Xtar); I found that it happily charged these cells, and even do capacity tests. However, I thought it best to just replace the cells.

    I've never had an AA Eneloop have this problem.
    I'm not familiar with the C9000, someone with the charger may chime in about it. I have several chargers I use for nimh 3 of them. I use one old fast rayovac 1 hr charger to charge low voltage nimh cells that chargers reject, a second one to charge healthy cells that is gentle on them (Duracell mobile charger) and my analyzing and refreshing charger (BC900). My Duracell won't charge some cells that are old and not healthy and won't charge when the voltage is too low also. The BC900 will charge any battery as long as the voltage is high enough to detect. The Rayovac won't charge damaged cells properly but the pulsing of it checking the battery raises the voltage high enough to be detected by the other 2 chargers. I have a single cell BTC100 charger I've not used for nimh (bought it for lithium ion cells).
    My BC900 charger is a good charger but people have had serious issues with it frying cells and catching fire etc which pretty much killed it as a contender for charging. If I were to try a new charger I would probably get a BTC3100 or 3400 charger so I can charge 4 cells at once.
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    Default Re: HIGH internal resistance eneloops

    For reference, the C9000 would be the popular Maha-Powerex MH-C9000 WizardOne 4-slot NiMH charger.

  11. #11

    Default Re: HIGH internal resistance eneloops

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Arc View Post
    If you have a digital meter with a low dc ma scale you can check it I think the light has a tailcap to it of some sort you take off the tail cap and put the meter on the lowest ma scale and touch one terminal to the battery, the other to the tube of the light that isn't anodized and you should see a reading on the meter. You can take the total mah of the battery in the light and divide it by that amount on the meter and that gives you the number of hours it should take to drain the light. You will have to first divide by 24 to get days then 365 for years. If the years are less than 1-2 you've got a light that you can't store a battery in at all. If it is 5-7+ years then you should check the light every year or so. Lights that drain batteries too quickly either need to be locked out (circuit broken) or batteries removed.
    If a light can drain itself in less than a year then if it were mine I would replace it as it will sooner or later ruin batteries if you don't use it once a week then it may be sooner or later you don't use it once a year even.
    I tried to measure current of my light in operation (not parasitic) as follows: I connected one lead to the spring in the tailcap and pressed the other lead against the back of the battery in the light. Then I tried to turn the light on...but nothing happened. No light. No current reading. What am I doing wrong here?

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    Default Re: HIGH internal resistance eneloops

    You haven't completed the circuit. The body of the light to the sides of the tailcap is the other conductor.

    Even then, it's not clear where you have your ammeter connected.

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    *Flashaholic* Lynx_Arc's Avatar
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    Default Re: HIGH internal resistance eneloops

    Quote Originally Posted by adrianmariano View Post
    I tried to measure current of my light in operation (not parasitic) as follows: I connected one lead to the spring in the tailcap and pressed the other lead against the back of the battery in the light. Then I tried to turn the light on...but nothing happened. No light. No current reading. What am I doing wrong here?
    If the tailcap is removeable set it aside. With the battery in the light touch one lead to the battery center and the other to the body of the light where the tailcap screws on. Set the meter to ma scale and if required you may have to change the lead sockets of the + lead on some meters. If it has an electronic switch you should measure some ver low current numbers likely a fraction of a ma, the lower the better.

    DO NOT TURN THE LIGHT ON as it is likely more than a low amp scale can handle you may damage your meter.
    Last edited by Lynx_Arc; 06-09-2021 at 09:06 PM.
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    Default Re: HIGH internal resistance eneloops

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Arc View Post
    If the tailcap is removeable set it aside. With the battery in the light touch one lead to the battery center and the other to the body of the light where the tailcap screws on. Set the meter to ma scale and if required you may have to change the lead sockets of the + lead on some meters. If it has an electronic switch you should measure some ver low current numbers likely a fraction of a ma, the lower the better.

    DO NOT TURN THE LIGHT ON as it is likely more than a low amp scale can handle you may damage your meter.
    Note that my meter is autoranging and has two current scales. For this particular test I had the meter on the amp scale. My intention was to determine whether a 1A power supply can run this light or not. The tailcap has the light's power switch, so it's not clear that I can omit the tailcap from the measurement. As noted, I pressed the power switch. The light didn't turn on, though. I tried the same test with a second light that also had a switch in the tail with the same result. Hmmm. I need a wire connecting the tailcap to the main body, don't I?

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    Default Re: HIGH internal resistance eneloops

    Quote Originally Posted by adrianmariano View Post
    Note that my meter is autoranging and has two current scales. For this particular test I had the meter on the amp scale. My intention was to determine whether a 1A power supply can run this light or not. The tailcap has the light's power switch, so it's not clear that I can omit the tailcap from the measurement. As noted, I pressed the power switch. The light didn't turn on, though. I tried the same test with a second light that also had a switch in the tail with the same result. Hmmm. I need a wire connecting the tailcap to the main body, don't I?
    If you are not powering it with a battery you will need to run a wire down inside to the contact on the circuit board as you have to mimic the battery connections with an external Power supply You shouldn't need the tail cap just touch one lead to the body the other to the center pin/spring on the circuit board inside hopefully without shorting things out.
    Last edited by Lynx_Arc; 06-10-2021 at 09:39 AM.
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  16. #16

    Default Re: HIGH internal resistance eneloops

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Arc View Post
    If you are not powering it with a battery you will need to run a wire down inside to the contact on the circuit board as you have to mimic the battery connections with an external Power supply You shouldn't need the tail cap just touch one lead to the body the other to the center pin/spring on the circuit board inside hopefully without shorting things out.
    I was measuring with batteries installed. But to close the circuit I need the tailcap to touch the body. Note also that this light uses tailcap touches to change brightness. I guess I don't know if brief power interruptions are all that's needed to signal the electronics to switch modes. I suppose I can try testing with the tailcap out of the circuit and see if the light comes on.

    For using a power supply I was planning to go the easy route and use a dummy battery, otherwise it seems hard to get a decent connection deep inside the light. With a dummy battery the only challenge is cutting a slot for the wires that doesn't prevent me from screwing the tailcap back on. Well, that and confirming that the power supply can provide sufficient current. Based on the specs the 1A supply should be OK as long as I avoid Turbo mode, which is supposed to last only 1.5 hours. High is supposed to last 4.5 hrs, which would be 0.9 A, so getting kinda close to 1A.

    Here's an example of the dummy battery setup with included 1A supply:
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...B122UY8S&psc=1

    I was looking around a bit for a higher current supply, but hard to find anything really substantially higher. I might want to run two lights on one supply eventually.

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    Default Re: HIGH internal resistance eneloops

    Quote Originally Posted by adrianmariano View Post
    I was measuring with batteries installed. But to close the circuit I need the tailcap to touch the body. Note also that this light uses tailcap touches to change brightness. I guess I don't know if brief power interruptions are all that's needed to signal the electronics to switch modes. I suppose I can try testing with the tailcap out of the circuit and see if the light comes on.

    For using a power supply I was planning to go the easy route and use a dummy battery, otherwise it seems hard to get a decent connection deep inside the light. With a dummy battery the only challenge is cutting a slot for the wires that doesn't prevent me from screwing the tailcap back on. Well, that and confirming that the power supply can provide sufficient current. Based on the specs the 1A supply should be OK as long as I avoid Turbo mode, which is supposed to last only 1.5 hours. High is supposed to last 4.5 hrs, which would be 0.9 A, so getting kinda close to 1A.

    Here's an example of the dummy battery setup with included 1A supply:
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...B122UY8S&psc=1

    I was looking around a bit for a higher current supply, but hard to find anything really substantially higher. I might want to run two lights on one supply eventually.
    Running lights off power supplies could have issues on the highest modes from heat buildup. I'm not sure if removing the battery helps or harms heat dissipation or not but likely if you avoid running on Turbo should be fine. Not sure why you see a need to run lights off a Power Supply though. As for power supplies you could get a buck circuit and a 5v or 12v high current supply and step down the voltage to whatever you desire
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    Default Re: HIGH internal resistance eneloops

    First question is, is are they Eneloop Pros, which are their High-Cap offerings?

    If so, a couple/few years out of them is totally expected before high I.R.s kill them.

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    Default Re: HIGH internal resistance eneloops

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisGarrett View Post
    First question is, is are they Eneloop Pros, which are their High-Cap offerings?

    If so, a couple/few years out of them is totally expected before high I.R.s kill them.

    Chris
    No, regular eneloops, not Pro.

  20. #20

    Default Re: HIGH internal resistance eneloops

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Arc View Post
    Running lights off power supplies could have issues on the highest modes from heat buildup. I'm not sure if removing the battery helps or harms heat dissipation or not but likely if you avoid running on Turbo should be fine. Not sure why you see a need to run lights off a Power Supply though. As for power supplies you could get a buck circuit and a 5v or 12v high current supply and step down the voltage to whatever you desire
    I've been using the light as a task light. I have it mounted on loc-line so I can position it. And it's constantly running down and I have to change the batteries.

    Can I buy a "buck circuit" device that's easy to connect to my power supply? Does it keep max current constant as it drops the voltage? People talk about dropping the voltage with a resistor, but that means more heat (and wasted power). I haven't seen anybody suggest a more sophisticated approach...unless it's adding a capacitor to smooth out power variations.

    Why would heat dissipation be different when running off a power supply? (Presumably the main concern would be if I tried to run it in Turbo for a long time and it was really not designed for continuous operation in Turbo.)

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    Default Re: HIGH internal resistance eneloops

    Quote Originally Posted by adrianmariano View Post
    I've been using the light as a task light. I have it mounted on loc-line so I can position it. And it's constantly running down and I have to change the batteries.

    Can I buy a "buck circuit" device that's easy to connect to my power supply? Does it keep max current constant as it drops the voltage? People talk about dropping the voltage with a resistor, but that means more heat (and wasted power). I haven't seen anybody suggest a more sophisticated approach...unless it's adding a capacitor to smooth out power variations.

    Why would heat dissipation be different when running off a power supply? (Presumably the main concern would be if I tried to run it in Turbo for a long time and it was really not designed for continuous operation in Turbo.)
    yes a buck circuit swaps current for voltage that is it takes less current to operate the higher the input voltage and when the input drops too low likely it will cut out.
    As for heat dissipation you aren't using a battery which may help absorb some of the heat and if the light isn't a headlamp then your hand is also used to absorb heat from the light too and if the battery can only run for a short time on batteries instead of days on end using a power supply the chance increases that the heat has longer to build up.
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  22. #22

    Default Re: HIGH internal resistance eneloops

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Arc View Post
    yes a buck circuit swaps current for voltage that is it takes less current to operate the higher the input voltage and when the input drops too low likely it will cut out.
    As for heat dissipation you aren't using a battery which may help absorb some of the heat and if the light isn't a headlamp then your hand is also used to absorb heat from the light too and if the battery can only run for a short time on batteries instead of days on end using a power supply the chance increases that the heat has longer to build up.
    So can I buy a buck circuit convertor or is it something that would be a component to solder onto a board? A reason I asked the question is that I found in my searches an adjustable voltage power supply, but it's advertised as being 3A at every voltage, so evidently when you lower the voltage the current does not go up---you just get less power. Seems odd that it wouldn't be a constant power supply.

    I didn't think of the possibly of the hand being part of the heat sink. Most of the situations where I'd run a light for a long time would be like tailstanding on a table, say, not in my hand.

    I tried skipping the tailcap and was able to measure the current at 325 mA in the brighter mode (which I believe is the non-turbo mode). This suggests that even the 1A supply might suffice to drive two of these lights.

    However, I could not measure the parasitic current because I couldn't have the light turned off with my leads connected. I tried a Fenix and got 180 mA when on but couldn't measure it off for the same reason.

    I tried a parasitic measurement on a zebralight and my meter just reports zero. This one has the switch in the side of the body, so I can turn it off while measuring.

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    Default Re: HIGH internal resistance eneloops

    My Fluke has an Amp scale and a ma scale, if you set it to measure amps then fractions of ma likely won't register you have to change to that setting. Parasitic drain is always there when the battery is inserted regardless of turning off. The light would have to be locked out to stop the small drain. It basically is a tiny amount of power that queries the push button switch to see if you have pressed it or not without it digital switches would not work, you would need a mechanical switch likely a reverse clicky and I don't think Zebralights have clicky switches.
    Likely the current should be in the tens of microamps range that would mean 5+ years to drain the battery when not used and not locked out.

    As for power supplies most today using wall power are switching supplies not buck circuits as the input is AC and buck circuits are designed for DC input and convert it to a rough form of AC then run it through an inductor and essentially transforms it into lower voltage with higher current as power stays the same with some loss in conversion. The advantage of buck conversion is unlike using a linear regulator or resistor you aren't burning off excess voltage as heat so a lot less power loss and a lot less heat in some cases.
    I seriously doubt the Zebralight has parasitic drain issues but it isn't out of the question as I think I have heard of someone that had to sned one back because it drained the battery in less than a month or something like that. I've had other devices that developed unusable parasitic drain mostly remote control stuff. I bought some LED puck lights that are wireless radio controlled and they worked fine but 2 days later the light was completely dead from parasitic drain. I also had some 3AAA incan tap lights that had a digital pushbutton switch on them that after 3 weeks were dead. The parasitic drain was 4ma so each day 100ma of the 1600mah batteries vanished. I ended up removing the switches and throwing them in the parts bin and replacing with mechanical switches.
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  24. #24

    Default Re: HIGH internal resistance eneloops

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Arc View Post
    My Fluke has an Amp scale and a ma scale, if you set it to measure amps then fractions of ma likely won't register you have to change to that setting. Parasitic drain is always there when the battery is inserted regardless of turning off. The light would have to be locked out to stop the small drain. It basically is a tiny amount of power that queries the push button switch to see if you have pressed it or not without it digital switches would not work, you would need a mechanical switch likely a reverse clicky and I don't think Zebralights have clicky switches.
    Likely the current should be in the tens of microamps range that would mean 5+ years to drain the battery when not used and not locked out.

    As for power supplies most today using wall power are switching supplies not buck circuits as the input is AC and buck circuits are designed for DC input and convert it to a rough form of AC then run it through an inductor and essentially transforms it into lower voltage with higher current as power stays the same with some loss in conversion. The advantage of buck conversion is unlike using a linear regulator or resistor you aren't burning off excess voltage as heat so a lot less power loss and a lot less heat in some cases.
    I seriously doubt the Zebralight has parasitic drain issues but it isn't out of the question as I think I have heard of someone that had to sned one back because it drained the battery in less than a month or something like that. I've had other devices that developed unusable parasitic drain mostly remote control stuff. I bought some LED puck lights that are wireless radio controlled and they worked fine but 2 days later the light was completely dead from parasitic drain. I also had some 3AAA incan tap lights that had a digital pushbutton switch on them that after 3 weeks were dead. The parasitic drain was 4ma so each day 100ma of the 1600mah batteries vanished. I ended up removing the switches and throwing them in the parts bin and replacing with mechanical switches.
    I keep wondering if I should upgrade my multimeter. When I attempted to measure parasitic current I selected the mA scale and because the autoranging seems slow and flaky I selected the smallest scale, which showed 0.00 mA. It matters that the light is off because when it's on I get 325 mA---I just see the current to power the LED, not the parasitic current. The zebralight is not clicky. But if the parasitic current is 0.01 mA I can imagine my meter being unable to measure it. (Maybe I should upgrade my meter...but I probably do not want to spend what I'd need to get a meter that measures microamps.)

    It would have been interesting if I could have measured parasitic drain on the Nitecore EA4W Pioneer, which runs a blue light around the power switch while it's off, and like I said, kills it's 4 AA batteries in a few weeks. I think I should be measurable by my meter, if I had a way to set up the measurement.

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    Default Re: HIGH internal resistance eneloops

    Quote Originally Posted by adrianmariano View Post
    I keep wondering if I should upgrade my multimeter. When I attempted to measure parasitic current I selected the mA scale and because the autoranging seems slow and flaky I selected the smallest scale, which showed 0.00 mA. It matters that the light is off because when it's on I get 325 mA---I just see the current to power the LED, not the parasitic current. The zebralight is not clicky. But if the parasitic current is 0.01 mA I can imagine my meter being unable to measure it. (Maybe I should upgrade my meter...but I probably do not want to spend what I'd need to get a meter that measures microamps.)

    It would have been interesting if I could have measured parasitic drain on the Nitecore EA4W Pioneer, which runs a blue light around the power switch while it's off, and like I said, kills it's 4 AA batteries in a few weeks. I think I should be measurable by my meter, if I had a way to set up the measurement.
    You would be surprised at how little current it takes to light up an LED. I have some USB dimmable LED modules and most power banks won't keep them on when they are dimmed all the way down and when I got a power bank that would stay on my USB meter couldn't measure the amount I bought a better USB meter and it was a fraction of a ma of current used I don't quite remember exactly but I can run 4 USB LED modules off 2 18650s in a power bank for 8-12 hours a day for 2-3 weeks without recharging. It is when you start approaching a ma things go bad as 24 hours a day is 24ma and not quite 200ma/week or about 700ma a month so in 3 months a 2000ma 18650 is dea and if you are using less powerful it goes faster or if you use the light and don't recharge it you may only have a half a charge to drain.
    If you don't have it on the lowest scale then the accuracy at small currents usually is limited. If you have 0.005ma then it may measure 0.01ma or not may go back and forth as it rounds up/down.
    I would consult the manual for your meter to see what it can measure it should tell you and tell you how to measure various things.
    If a light is killing batteries in a few weeks likely it is in the 5-10ma range of drain.
    I just read a CPF thread equating it would drain batteries in about 2 weeks if you don't lock it out. There is a lock out mode you need to put it in that reduces battery drain they say.
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  26. #26

    Default Re: HIGH internal resistance eneloops

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Arc View Post
    You would be surprised at how little current it takes to light up an LED. I have some USB dimmable LED modules and most power banks won't keep them on when they are dimmed all the way down and when I got a power bank that would stay on my USB meter couldn't measure the amount I bought a better USB meter and it was a fraction of a ma of current used I don't quite remember exactly but I can run 4 USB LED modules off 2 18650s in a power bank for 8-12 hours a day for 2-3 weeks without recharging. It is when you start approaching a ma things go bad as 24 hours a day is 24ma and not quite 200ma/week or about 700ma a month so in 3 months a 2000ma 18650 is dea and if you are using less powerful it goes faster or if you use the light and don't recharge it you may only have a half a charge to drain.
    If you don't have it on the lowest scale then the accuracy at small currents usually is limited. If you have 0.005ma then it may measure 0.01ma or not may go back and forth as it rounds up/down.
    I would consult the manual for your meter to see what it can measure it should tell you and tell you how to measure various things.
    If a light is killing batteries in a few weeks likely it is in the 5-10ma range of drain.
    I just read a CPF thread equating it would drain batteries in about 2 weeks if you don't lock it out. There is a lock out mode you need to put it in that reduces battery drain they say.
    I don't think my meter came with instructions. If it did, they were along the lines of "Insert batteries in the correct direction and don't operate under water". It's an unbranded model. It may show a scale going down to 0.00 mA but really only reliably measure signals that are significantly above 0.01 mA.

    When looking through my instruction sheets to see if I had one for the multimeter I found the instructions for the EA4W which explains how to enter "lockout" mode, which is good to know.

    What's the verdict on the high resistance batteries? Just toss them? What about shorting to another battery to try to get some charge in there?

  27. #27
    *Flashaholic* Lynx_Arc's Avatar
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    Default Re: HIGH internal resistance eneloops

    Quote Originally Posted by adrianmariano View Post
    I don't think my meter came with instructions. If it did, they were along the lines of "Insert batteries in the correct direction and don't operate under water". It's an unbranded model. It may show a scale going down to 0.00 mA but really only reliably measure signals that are significantly above 0.01 mA.

    When looking through my instruction sheets to see if I had one for the multimeter I found the instructions for the EA4W which explains how to enter "lockout" mode, which is good to know.

    What's the verdict on the high resistance batteries? Just toss them? What about shorting to another battery to try to get some charge in there?
    Easiest thing to do is get a couple of wires or paper clips and a charged battery and connecting them together for about 5-10 seconds and try to see if the charger can "see" it then. Sometimes if you catch the battery early after it has been discharged too much the damage is less disasterous but often when they are discharged below about 0.5v there is loss of capacity and even develop high internal resistance shows up. When a battery is discharged too low to be detected by a charger it may be time to run it through a refresh cycle and check the capacity as if it loses enough capacity it will be a lot more easy to damage further in series in a device that doesn't shut off when voltage drops too low. When I have a nimh battery that is less than 80% of listed capacity and don't have others of similar health I relegate it to use in non critical use such that I don't need to depend on it to perform and if it gets further damage it is no loss. When a battery drops to 50% of capacity then it is junk. I've got to the point when a battery drops below about 2/3 capacity I mark red lines on it to signify it is a fragile (bad) cell in use. When I have more than enough cells to go around the bad cells get tossed. I just tossed a pair of AAA nimh Rayovac hybrids that after a refresh cycle only measured about 50mah each. The chinese based LSD nimh from back then have shown to be rather fragile as about half of them I've tossed due to substantial losses of capacity and some develop HSD (high self discharge) that renders them useless for all but immediate use after charging. I did at one time keep some HSD Energizer 2500s that did have nearly full capacity for a 1AA LED headlamp that I used heavily at one time. I would keep 1-2 cells on a fast charger and swap them in/out of it all day as the runtime was about 1.5 to 2 hours a charge and I was using it constantly for 8-10 hours on a project and the higher capacity meant an extra 15-30+ minutes without having to stop and swap out the battery. Now I've gone to 18650 and I tossed those 2500s in the trash.
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  28. #28
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    Default Re: HIGH internal resistance eneloops

    http://aacycler.com/post/trickle-charging-lsd-cells/
    its possible your "titanium"charger trickled them to death.
    best to look at info HKJ posts on chargers.
    lots of cheap chargers murder batteries.

  29. #29
    *Flashaholic* Lynx_Arc's Avatar
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    Default Re: HIGH internal resistance eneloops

    Quote Originally Posted by snakebite View Post
    http://aacycler.com/post/trickle-charging-lsd-cells/
    its possible your "titanium"charger trickled them to death.
    best to look at info HKJ posts on chargers.
    lots of cheap chargers murder batteries.
    I agree, plus leaving batteries in chargers for weeks after they are "done" is IMO a no-no as who knows if he charger detection "pulse" to see if a cell is in the slot is not designed well and can also trickle charge batteries some too. i have an old Rayovac 1 hour charger that I use to "charge dead nimh to a high enough voltage that my other charger can "see" them. It blinks error but does charge it enough that my Lacrosse BC900 can then charge them as it will will charge batteries other chargers reject. I use it for my junk batteries and on occasion using the refresh mode it can restore batteries to normal enough that the other chargers accept them.
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  30. #30

    Default Re: HIGH internal resistance eneloops

    It looks like four of the high resistance batteries got trashed. I had the one left that I pulled out of the zebralight. I measured it's no-load voltage and got something very low, like 0.15 V. I shorted it to a freshly charged eneloop. It was fairly slow to bring up the voltage---five to ten seconds wasn't even close to sufficient. Maybe it took about a minute to come up to 0.35 V. I tried sticking it in the C9000 at this point and the C9000 is willing to charge it. I'll run a refresh cycle and see what capacity it has.

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