MagCharger Mods Lineage

This post was returned to the thread on 2/8/06.

Hi,

With all the recent activity going on lately, I thought it might be useful to capture some of the evolutionary steps in the modification of this platform. Please feel free to make suggestions or fill in the blanks. If this goes well, I'll do the same for the regular Mag bodies.

Stock
Bulb: 6V, 1.4A, 8.4W estimated output, 190 lumens
Battery: 2.5Ah nicad, 5 cells
Body: stock

Level 1
Bulb: 6V(+), 3.45A, 20W, output 500+ lumens (WA01160)
Bulb: 6V, 3.35A, 20W, output 465 lumens (WA01111)
Battery: stock
Body: stock
Note: The first level functional upgrade for increased brightness at the cost of reduced runtime.

Level 1.1 - MC60a, MC11a
Bulb: Level 1 bulb options
Battery: 2.5Ah PowerStream nicad, 5 cells
Body: stock
Note: Some improvement in runtime, brightness and significant improvement in light output stability over Level 1.

Level 1.2 - MC60, MC11
Bulb: Level 1 bulb options
Battery: 3.5Ah UMP nimh, 5 cells
Body: stock
Note: Significant improvements in runtime, brightness and light output stability over Level 1.1.

Level 1.2.1 - MC11+
Bulb: 7.2V(+), 3.35A, 24W, 850+ lumens (WA01111)
Battery: 1.7Ah 4/5SC nicad, 6 cells
Body: de-anodized tailcap, replacement spring
Note: Moderate improvement in brightness over Level 1.2 but with significantly reduced runtime.

Level 1.2.2 - MC85
Bulb: 9.6V(+), 3.15A, 32W, output 1,000+ lumens (WA01185)
Battery: 2.0Ah AA nimh, 9 cells
Body: stock
Note: The brightest Level 1 class mod.

Level 1.2.3 - MC74
Bulb: 7.2V, 2.77A, 20W, output 553 lumens (WA01274)
Battery: 1.7Ah 4/5SC nicad, 6 cells
Body: de-anodized tailcap, replacement spring
Note: Potentially quite similar to the MC60a mod.

Level 1.2.4 - MCX1
Bulb: 6V, 5.8A, 35W, output 780 lumens (Osram64275AX)
Battery: 3.5Ah UMP nimh, 5 cells
Body: reamed reflector, notched bulb pedestal
Note: Axial filament bulb results in the only perfectly circular spot in the MC mod family. Bulb does not accept overdrive.

Level 2 - Stretch Mods
Bulb: Any Level 1 bulb
Battery: 3.5Ah high current nimh, cell count as indicated in corresponding mods above. Typically as loose cells or soldered ministicks coupled with the main 5-cell stick.
Body: extension rings as needed, mica heat shield
Note: Mod Level 1.2.3 is pushed to 7 cells. The maximal combination for runtime and brightness consists of the WA01185 overdriven on 9 x 1/2D cells using a 4 x 1/2D extension ring.

Level 2.1 - MC35RLA Reflectorized Lamp Assembly
Bulb: SL-35X LA, machined rim, 7.2V(+), 3.6A+, 26W
Battery: 3.5Ah high current nimh, 6 cells
Body: 1 x 1/2D extension ring
Note: This is the first significant RLA mod. It combines the massive power capability of the high current nimh cells with the smooth output of the SL-35X LA.

Level 3 - H3 Class
At this point, it is unclear whether it will be possible to fit an H3 bulb into the MagCharger system. If (big "if") it is possible, it will provide near-Aurora class output in a similar sized package. Personally, I have my doubts that the switch core will survive nearly 9 amps of current.

Wilkey

Ginseng

Awesome! I was trying to do this on paper so I could figure out which way I wanted to go.

I think that the note line on 1.2.1 needs to be checked though. Improved brightness, less runtime?

Also, where can you get the batteries to make these mods if ou need them?

Bill

mmm...
I'm thinking about upgrading my 1.2 to an 1.2.4
hehe /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Thanks bwaites,
Line edited. I get some cells from www.cheapbatterypacks.com and www.battlepacks.com. The rest from www.batterieswholesale.com.

kfc,
The 1.2.4 is quite punishing on the torch. For some reason, that bulb runs really hot. Plus, the work required to modify the pedestal makes it borderline worthwhile. Still, it is presently the only axial bulb mod for the MC I know of. I honestly couldn't recommend it unless you don't mind having the torch almost completely disassembled.

My favorite combo right now is the 1.2.2. Super bright. Once illuminated figures out what it takes to get the trickle current down to a safe level for the AA cells, it'll be all the torch I need. For those times that I need massive brightness and massive runtime, it's gotta be the 2.2.2. Projecting up to 70 minutes of kilolumen output. Sweet /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Wilkey

Thanks for the advice Ginseng; I bow down to your superior hotwire expertise /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif
I don't really mind having my flashlight disassembled. In fact, I pretty much disassemble everything I buy the moment I receive it; that could explain why I've never had a working watch for very long...
Once it's available, I'd still like to look into that option because I'd really like a nicer looking, rounder beam. Right now, however bright it may be, the shape of the beam always reminds me that it was once a stock m@glite.

Ginseng, can you carge these in the MC charger or do you have a seperate charger?

How do you do the end to end packs?

Also, I thought I remembered you saying that the MC had a metal reflector? The one I have has a plastic reflector?

Bill

Bill

bwaites,

MC has a thin metal reflector, the plastic (black I think?) you're seeing, is just to hold the reflector.

KFC,
We can talk if you'd really like an MCX1. I have everything needed to convert your MC to the 1.2.4 version. I can also show you how to return it to stock.

bwaites,
I'm working on the charger with Illuminated. At this time, it seems as if up to 7-cell 1/2D packs can be charged in the stock cradle. Mods need to be done to accommodate the lower Ah cell packs. It remains to be seen exactly what needs be done to charge a 9-cell 1/2D pack. The reflector is spun steel in a plastic carrier frame. I solder my end-to-end packs.

Wilkey

Wilkey, I hope you don't mind if I add one of my experiences.
I installed 12xAA NiMH in original M*gCharger without reboering or resizing. I have 2 groups of 6 cells wired in series (7.2 volt) and these 2 groups are wired in parallel to increase capacity and current capability. I have used 1800mAH AA batteries which was the highest at the time but today, 2300mAH is available for same price. This will give you a battery pack of 7.2 volts @ 4600mAH
There are several bulb options that can give you higher brightness to higher run time.
I know it takes more work to build this battery pack but it is just another modification that can be done on 3D M*g as well.

Ginseng, I understood the soldering end to end packs part, just wondered how you accomplished that? I've been building RC packs for years, but always side to side, I like "rolling my own", so to speak, but haven't ever done the end to end thing. I've ordered 10 of the 3500 cells to make packs with.

Can they be charged in the MC, with the MC charger? I'm not sure I understood what you were saying when I asked the question above

And as I am new to the MagCharger part of torches, wondered what UMP packs stand for?

Oops, never mind, I was entering UMP into the wrong forum on the search engine. Got it now.

Sorry for all the questions, I guess thats why I'm on the turnkey Aurora list, but I got tired of waiting and wanted to do something while I waited.

3rd Edit--Has anyone found another source for the 3500 1/2 D's? 31 bucks shipping for 10 cells is a little stiff. Is there a stateside source?

Bill

I'm with kfc. I have a 1.2 and would like to convert it to a 1.2.4.

Then again the 1.2.2 looks like an easy upgrade. Just need to switch out the battery and bulb. Is there any thing else that needs to done to the light?

Does the WA85 run hot? How does the beam look? Does it even have a "beam", or is it one big wall of light? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Nitro, I think the charger also needs modification to charge 9 AAs...
Ginseng, thanks! pm coming your way.

Fivemega,
I don't mind additions at all. I may have started this thread but I'd like all MC modders to chime in with their favorite configurations. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Am I to understand you got 12 cells in the body? Would that be in triangular three-bundles? I'm looking at my triangular 9-cell pack next to a stock stick and it doesn't look possible even if you replace the tailspring. Did you use flat-tops? Or did you use square four-bundles. I'm still pretty new to this MC modding business so I'd love to hear about other bulb battery configs you've run.

bwaites,
E2E soldering is pretty straighforward to do. Here is a link to one method. The 5-cell stick can be charged in the cradle. It looks like up to a 7-cell stick can be charged in the stock cradle. I have not found a stateside source for 3.5Ah+ 1/2Ds. PowerStream sells them in minimum quantities of 100 but they come from China, like the Aeronimh cells. Heck, they might even be the same cells.

Building End-to-End packs

Nitro,
The 1.2.2 setup can vary a bit depending on the cells you choose to use. High capacity consumer grade AA (like the Maha 2.2Ah and Sanyo 2.1 and 2.3Ah) cells seem to supply the necessary current just fine. Then there are the 1.7Ah and 1.8Ah flat top high current nimh cells. Due to their greater retention of capacity under high loads, the difference between those and the high cap button top cells might not be as dramatic as the spec amp-hour ratings might lead one to believe.

The 1.2.2 produces a large bi-lobe secondary hotspot to go along with the very bright primary hotspot. In fact, I find that you don't need to defocus it to light up a large area. The diffuse secondary beam does just fine. I guess that's one way to avoid the dreaded "Mag Hole."

The WA01160 runs very hot and the WA01185 runs even hotter. I'm talking hot enough to burn a hole in a paper towel even after switching off the light, removing the front bezel and then grabbing a towel to grip the bulb with.

On the issue of heat, I've been trying some 3mm compressed fiberglass and even after 16 minutes with the '60, the FG mat is scorched. The grade I've been playing with is rated to 750F so this gives you an idea of what we're up against. I'm afraid that this means we are going to have to go with pure mica mineral sheet. Anything that uses a binder (like the compressed FG) will scorch in no time. Unfortunately, there is a $50 minimum purchase on the research grade sheets but that would mean enough to make shields for something like 200 MC's.

Wilkey

[ QUOTE ]
kongfuchicken said:
Nitro, I think the charger also needs modification to charge 9 AAs...
Ginseng, thanks! pm coming your way.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just read the stock charger can only charge up to 7 cells. Is that correct?

So what needs to be done to the charger? Do we know yet?

Working on it, Nitro. Possibly a resistor change and a more powerful wall wart.

PM answered, kfc.

Wilkey

[ QUOTE ]
Ginseng said:
The 1.2.2 produces a large bi-lobe secondary hotspot to go along with the very bright primary hotspot. In fact, I find that you don't need to defocus it to light up a large area. The diffuse secondary beam does just fine. I guess that's one way to avoid the dreaded "Mag Hole."

[/ QUOTE ]

How does it (beam quality that is) compare to the WA60?

[ QUOTE ]
The WA01160 runs very hot and the WA01185 runs even hotter. I'm talking hot enough to burn a hole in a paper towel even after switching off the light, removing the front bezel and then grabbing a towel to grip the bulb with.

On the issue of heat, I've been trying some 3mm compressed fiberglass and even after 16 minutes with the '60, the FG mat is scorched. The grade I've been playing with is rated to 750F so this gives you an idea of what we're up against. I'm afraid that this means we are going to have to go with pure mica mineral sheet. Anything that uses a binder (like the compressed FG) will scorch in no time. Unfortunately, there is a $50 minimum purchase on the research grade sheets but that would mean enough to make shields for something like 200 MC's.

[/ QUOTE ]

So,correct me if I'm worng, the main problem is too much heat for the base of the socket? Gotcha.

So what's involved in installing the heat shields?

[ QUOTE ]
Ginseng said:
Working on it, Nitro. Possibly a resistor change and a more powerful wall wart.

[/ QUOTE ]

Forgive my ignorance, but what's a "Wall Wart"? Sounds like a bug the lives inside walls? I assume it's another charger. Does that mean the stock charger needs to be replaced, or can it be modded?

I'd like to qualify the notion on axial bulbs. I have already posted a reply to Ginseng on the 'Mag Extender rings(tubes)' thread about other axial bulbs, to which I got no response. It may be possible to use one of these Philips bulbs, some of which I saw at Home Depot. Of course you will have to live with longer body lenght to get 12v or more, which may not be such a bad thing considering how hot the front portion of the lights will get. They are all 12v, and despite poorly written Philips site, with not a lot of information, they are all axial IIRC. You can do a search on their site for 'halogen low voltage' and get a partial list, then do another search for 'halogen low voltage axial' and get another list. Throw in lamp size of T3 or T4 to your search, also.

Also a 75w version, but that's pushing 7amps.

50w version, kind of big T4 size(would be difficult to install?, need to bend the bi-pin inwards?), longish filament ~800 lumens, but less heat at 12v for less amps being pushed
50w, 12v, bi-pin T4 size, 800lumen axial bulb
35w, 600 lumens for only 3amps, shouldn't tax the MC that much, if you could live with the bigger T4 size bulb?

35w, 12v, 600lumen, T4 axial


T3 size, only 320lumens at spec, can it be over driven with 3000hr rated life?. Should not be that difficult to cram in, and the filament is shorter than T4 size.

20w, 12v, 320lm, T3 bi-pin axial

Nitro, most of us have already read Ginseng's Ultimate Mag Pack(UMP) and other battery combo's with various bulbs where Ginseng shows the burned whole in the paper towel, a gazillion times before. But FYI, here's the link
MagCharger Mods: Batteries, Bulbs, and Pictures

Nitro,
Sorry, a wall wart is slang for an AC-DC transformer. If we're lucky, simply using an uprated (higher voltage and current delivery) wall wart would allow the use of the stock cradle. Beam quality of the WA01185 is quite similar to the '60. Yes, the problem is too much heat at the base eventually melting the plastic pin socket. A proper heat shield would be drilled for the pins and bulb tail. So you would just slip it in between the bulb and the socket.

udaman,
I try to answer all questions directed at me unless 1) someone else answers first or 2) I just don't have time. As for using larger bulbs, the issue is not just bulb girth but the LCL. If the Light Center Length, basically the length of the bulb from the end of the pins to the filament, is too long, it will not focus in the MC. Typically, 3,000 hour 12V bulbs can be pushed to 14-18V before they become really efficient. The flat base T4 bulbs you link to above are G6.35 so the pins are not only too widely spaced but too thick. Also, the rectangular base would not allow it to be dropped further into the pedestal to allow focus since the LCL is so large. Ask me how I know. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif BTW, why do you make such a point of letting us know that some of your posts go unanswered?

Wilkey