LED Choices for Surefire M3 - Don't like the KL3

LED Choices for Surefire M3 - Don\'t like the KL3

Just purchased a M3 Combatlight, and the KL2 head. Needless to say, I was unsatisified with the lumens vs. battery drain. From the specs of the MN10 vs the KL2, only .5 hours more for full output & the output (27 vs 120).
I returned the KL2.....

I hear talk of a KL6, but see nothing on surefire's website or much mention of it. What gives?

My first choice would be a 5 watt LS, but even a 1 watt LS would be nice.

This M3 is a awesum light with amaizing throw to it - WOW.

Re: LED Choices for Surefire M3 - Don\'t like the KL3

Welcome to CPF!

The KL6 has not been released on it's own [yet].
It comes as part of the "L6" which is basically an M3 body, KL6 bezel and Z58 Clickie TailCap switch.

You may be able to find a private individual wanting to sell their KL6 bezel on the buy/sell/trade forum here on CPF.

Another method of getting one would be to buy the whole L6 which is likely to be better value then since you get a free body, new Clickie TailCap and three, free SF123As!!

Al

Re: LED Choices for Surefire M3 - Don\'t like the KL3

Astro_Saber_III, did you mean to type KL2 instead of KL3?

The KL2 is the LED head for the M3. The KL3 fits the M2. Tricky how they swapped the numerals, eh?

I've had a couple of KL3s modded (by Chop) with Luxeon III LEDs driven at different currents. One uses a Fraen LP optic and the other uses a modified Pelican Reflector (PR). They are a whole different animal from the stock heads.

I've considered getting a KL2 for my M3T and seeing about having it modified using a Luxeon III or 5 watt and a reflector, but have been dragging my feet.

I'm leaning more toward taking Al's advice and springing for an L6 or a KL6 if they become available.

Britt

Re: LED Choices for Surefire M3 - Don\'t like the KL3

Britt

Are you blind?! There is no mention of KL3...
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Somebody with Admin powers must have edited the post I guess.

Al /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

P.S.
Where is there a photo of a KL2 with crenelated bezel ring?

Re: LED Choices for Surefire M3 - Don\'t like the KL3

[ QUOTE ]
Size15s said:
Britt

Are you blind?! There is no mention of KL3...
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Somebody with Admin powers must have edited the post I guess.

Al /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

P.S.
Where is there a photo of a KL2 with crenelated bezel ring?

[/ QUOTE ]

Al, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif

A photo of a KL2 with a crennelated bezel ring?!? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

Try this site out of London: www.bandangeroussurefires.com

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif

Britt

Re: LED Choices for Surefire M3 - Don\'t like the KL3

Please, dont give our government any ideas. My knives more or less live in my drawer, at least my Surefires get to see a bit of use.

Re: LED Choices for Surefire M3 - Don\'t like the KL3

Agree KL6 is the way to go. I have a KL2 and a KL6 and they are totally different animals. The KL2 is a great flood - really broad light, the KL6 is much more of a beam and mine happens to be very bright and very white - no donuts....

My KL6 reaches easily 100' - the KL2 is more like 20-30' if that, but lights up a whole room.

I'm not sure on long run-times yet on the KL6 (1.5 hours expected), but I did manage to get about 2 hours of bright light from my KL2 and then another 18 hours of good all round useful light before it finally dropped down to trivial output.

For a while, I began to think that the KL2 was just an experiment that really proved itself to have no use. However, in retrospect, an M3+KL2 will give you some good 'power failure' light (especially in the winter - as that head almost glows red hot once it's been on 15 mins or so. But it looks pricey when compared against a C3+KL3 that will do 7+ hours of less bright but still brightish light and then trickle on ad nauseum...

The KL6 however, just blows it away in brightness, yet still claims 1.5 hours on 3x123. Not a bad trade. I doubt that it will go on as long though providing "good all around light" after that time - but I might try and find out soon....


Simon

P.S. and by way of summary, here's the SF LED heads... first the obvious and second the slightly less obvious combinations...

L6 (80 for 90), L5 (80 for ??), L4 (65 for 60), C3+KL3 (17 for 7.5 hrs), M3+KL2 (27 for 2hr), E1e+KL1 (15 for 90),


M6+KL6 (80 for 3-3.5hr), L4+E2C+KL5 (as L5), E1e+KL4 (<65 for 20)

(Missing is the KL1 on a vitalgear 3x123 tube for 15 for 7.5hr also...)

Re: LED Choices for Surefire M3 - Don\'t like the KL3

Are people blind? The bezel fills a whole page and the front cover of the 2004 catalog!


See also page 25...

Al /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

Re: LED Choices for Surefire M3 - Don\'t like the KL3

What voltage does the M6 put to the lamp assembly? I thought it was 6V.

Re: LED Choices for Surefire M3 - Don\'t like the KL3

Al, I thought that was the tailcap of the E2D. Iddn't it?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Britt

Re: LED Choices for Surefire M3 - Don\'t like the KL3

Check out Brock's measurements...
http://www.uwgb.edu/nevermab/flash.htm

Al

P.S.
Britt, perhaps you couldn't see the wood for the trees right? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Re: LED Choices for Surefire M3 - Don\'t like the KL3

The M6 is 9v. The battery cartridge is wired for 2 parallel strings of 3x123.

Re: LED Choices for Surefire M3 - Don\'t like the KL3

kakster,

Thanks for the info. Are the 123's arranged 3 cells end to end with two of these in parallel? Seems like a Li-Ion mod is in the making /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

TIA,

CM

Re: LED Choices for Surefire M3 - Don\'t like the KL3

Thanks for all the input guys! I've been lurking in these forums for over a year - lots of great information and a great group of guys/gals.

I think I'll wait until the KL6 becomes available as a seperate item (hopefully) or start modifying an existing M3 head to what I need.

I'm hopelessly addicted to hi-end flashlights now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
First Motorola Radios, now Surefire flashlights. At least the highest price surefire is 1/10 the cost of a Motorola HT. My hobbies are getting cheaper /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif

[ QUOTE ]
BC0311 said:
Astro_Saber_III, did you mean to type KL2 instead of KL3?

The KL2 is the LED head for the M3. The KL3 fits the M2. Tricky how they swapped the numerals, eh?

I've had a couple of KL3s modded (by Chop) with Luxeon III LEDs driven at different currents. One uses a Fraen LP optic and the other uses a modified Pelican Reflector (PR). They are a whole different animal from the stock heads.

I've considered getting a KL2 for my M3T and seeing about having it modified using a Luxeon III or 5 watt and a reflector, but have been dragging my feet.

I'm leaning more toward taking Al's advice and springing for an L6 or a KL6 if they become available.

Britt

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: LED Choices for Surefire M3 - Don\'t like the KL3

The MB20 cartridge is arranged in a 2+1 configuration like so:


No easy li-ion mod to be had there, you'll need to either hack up that battery carrier (90 bucks a pop), or build your own. There's certainly plenty of room to fit 3x Pila 168s inside the M6, with room to spare length-wise.
Of course, we can always pray they put some protection circuitry in those rechargable 123s...

With the cells charged to 4.27v, i tried it with the M4's MN20 12v LOLA, and it lit like a champ. Didnt have the nerve to run it long enough to get measurements though /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Re: LED Choices for Surefire M3 - Don\'t like the KL3

kakster,

That is very valuable information. Thanks much. Looks like it's possible to use 3 18mm cells in the M6 if you make your own battery carrier since the stock carrier itself has enough bulk. I may have to get an M6 and an MN20 lamp assembly and try it out /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Can you measure the diameter of the stock carrier? If 18mm cells can be used then decent runtimes may be had if using higher capacities like 2200mAH. 225 lumens for possibly close to 2 hours and 350 lumens for maybe 40-45 minutes using rechargeables sounds mighty tempting. Thanks again.

CM

Re: LED Choices for Surefire M3 - Don\'t like the KL3

The diameter is 3.65cm. BTW, i flashbulbed an MN20 with that setup, you might have better luck with the MN60/MN61/N62, which are all 12v bulbs.

Re: LED Choices for Surefire M3 - Don\'t like the KL3

Check out this thread...

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=534114&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=365&fpart=1

Re: LED Choices for Surefire M3 - Don\'t like the KL3

kakster,

Thanks for the info (again) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I measure 3 18650's arranged in a triangular fashion like the pack and guess what? It's 36.5mm. Well I better start another thread since I veered this one off into left field.

OK, back to the main topic. If you're looking for more throw than total output with the KL6, a Lux III in there would really perform I think. I'm willing to do the mod one time for FREE just to satisfy my curiosity. I've done several KL6 mods but it only involved boosting the drive and not swapping out the LED which I think is rather trivial. I'd try this myself but I don't have an L6 and since kakster just convinced my I need to get an M6 to mod for lithium ions, I can only buy one light for now.

CM

Re: LED Choices for Surefire M3 - Don\'t like the KL3

Astro,

I had a KL2 that I had gotten for my M3. I was very dissatisfied with its performance, so I modded it. It just so happens that the KL2 is very mod friendly. I gutted the head and added a 3W lux driven by a downboy converter with a Carley 1.3" reflector. This setup outperforms all of the PR based lights I've seen. It's performance is similar to that of a m@g mod, if throw is what you're looking for.

I would imagine that the mod could also have been done with a 5W and I think that the Carley reflector would do a good job in this application, considering the pencil thin beam I'm getting with the 3W.