There goes the neighborhood.....

Gandalf

Enlightened
Joined
Jul 3, 2001
Messages
802
Location
USA
I just saw a Botach banner on CPF! D*mn; I gues it's better than running the bogus 'for sale' on the 20 pks. of Sanyo batteries, but I just hate that outfit! Arrrghhhhh! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/xyxgun.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rant.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rant.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rant.gif

But to balance it out, I see that Brightguy also has a banner now. I've E-mailed Greg and asked him to put one on CPF, a few weeks ago, and he said he was working on it, but got busy with some other things. Glad to see it's up now

Brightguy is *everything* that Botach *isn't*, IMHO.
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McGizmo

Flashaholic
Joined
May 1, 2002
Messages
17,290
Location
Maui
On a philisophical level, one might presume that feed back and comments might in fact have the power of inducing change. For this reason, some are willing to grant a second chance if it hasn't been offered up and abused already. IMHO, both hating and loving a commercial entity are powerful emotions to be spending in such directions, typically, but to each his own.

I suspect that many CPF members have had reasonable interchanges with Botach and enjoyed some extensive discounts. Whether those dollars spent (or votes cast) went to the *best* place was up to the individual and certainly their right to chose.

For what it was worth (to me anyway) I have had business with both Brightguy and Botach. All transactions went well for me but I do know of others who can't make the same claim. If there are reasons to chose one vendor over another, it helps to have those reasons out in the open for both vendors as well as customers to be aware of and take into consideration.

If your bridge for access has burned and you see no call for rebuilding, so be it. This does not preclude access for others but certainly warnings or cautions might apply. Although you may choose not to rebuild a bridge, those on the other side might want to take it upon themselves. Should they be denied the chance?
 

PhotonWrangler

Flashaholic
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Messages
14,432
Location
In a handbasket
[ QUOTE ]
Gandalf said:
...But to balance it out, I see that Brightguy also has a banner now. I've E-mailed Greg and asked him to put one on CPF, a few weeks ago, and he said he was working on it, but got busy with some other things. Glad to see it's up now


[/ QUOTE ]

I've been to Greg's place a couple of times and he's always been very helpful with my questions and has allowed me to try out and compare several devices before making a purchase. His shop isn't intended to be a retail store, so it's all the more to his credit that he allowed me to come in and chat for a bit. Glad to see that he's an active participant now!
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this_is_nascar

Flashaholic
Joined
Mar 29, 2002
Messages
8,330
Location
Gloucester, New Jersey
Since my Botach thread was closed, I thought I'd pop over to this one. I didn't realize there was another thread already started concerning the questionable decision to allow this organization a banner on CPF. I guess CPF is to the point where the all mighty buck outways everything else. It's a sad day.
 

McGizmo

Flashaholic
Joined
May 1, 2002
Messages
17,290
Location
Maui
Ray,

Come on man, you can do better than that! CPF should be open to all dealers for fairness shouldn't it? If there are problems with certain dealers, cheers and jeers is an avenue for resolution.

This is pure speculation on my part but if Botach approached CPF for a banner ad, perhaps they might get involved to the point that some of the grievances expressed in the past about them are heard by them here? Now if they have crossed some line and are no longer in a position to improve their CS or rep, that's another story....

Don't take a cheap shot at CPF and insinuate that all CPF cares about is the all mighty buck! That's just plain bull poop!
 

Lebkuecher

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 5, 2003
Messages
1,654
Location
Nashville TN
I've never bought from this company but I do know how to find out if I ever would. Just doing a brief check online you can find out a lot. Maybe its just the way that I was brought up but you will go much further in business when you treat your customers like customers. It's hard to figure out why some companies just don't get it. If I owned this company I would consider finding out how to clear my company's name on the links below. Most people would not do business with a company with this type of record.

Better Business Bureau

ResellerRatings.com

Complaints.com

Ripoffreport.com
 

GJW

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 25, 2002
Messages
2,030
Location
Bay Area, CA
Not very flattering but then it's always the dissatisfied that make the most noise and leave the most feedback.
 

JerryM

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 12, 2003
Messages
1,042
Location
New Mexico
I trust Sasha as to who she allows on the banners.
I buy from whoever can give me the best price within reason, and whose service is satisfactory. I do buy from Botach.

The "old" dealers here provide superb service, and good prices, and I prefer to buy from them. But I still consider price.

As for the almighty dollar, "A fool and his money are soon parted."
I've been called a lot of things (I bet that is a surprise to many here), but a fool (with money) is not one of them.

Sasha knows what she is doing and why. She is real smart for a woman. Wait a minute, what am I saying? But she is.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Don't beat me up Sasha.

Jerry
 

IlluminatingBikr

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Messages
2,320
Sasha,

In re to JerryM's post, do you filter who becomes a CPF dealer? How much so and what are your requirements? Thanks.
 

Greta

Flashaholic
Joined
Apr 8, 2002
Messages
15,999
Location
Arizona
Aaron... for the most part? No, I do not "filter" anyone.

Here's what I think... if a dealer approaches me to put up a banner, then that says to me that they are aware of the site and they have visited it. I suppose one could also conclude that they have checked things out and know ahead of time what kind of reception they will get from the general membership. Now comes the tricky part... if they haven't done that, then it's on them. As Jerry pointed out, "A fool and his money are soon parted". My assumption is that Botach is completely aware of what the general CPF membership thinks of them. Despite that, they still approached me. I can take that several ways... 1. They would like to "change their ways" and show CPF that they can deliver, 2. They just want to see how it goes for a month... figuring maybe there are some who will try them out despite the bad reviews, 3. They really are unaware of the bad reviews.

Whatever the reasons, if Botach wants to make a donation to CPF and put up a banner, that is their choice. Let's face it... they really didn't have to do that. They could have just started posting in the Dealer's Forum without donating a dime... I haven't seen any of you slap anyone else's hand for doing that. And further... should I start "filtering" individual supporters also? If I think that a particular member isn't liked by the others, should I send him his paypal back?

If you choose to see it as CPF is only out for the almighty buck, then that's your prerogative. Honestly, I don't have to explain myself. And you are completely free to NOT support dealers that you don't like... unless of course, someone has a gun to your head... and last time I checked, mine was on my nightstand next to my bed... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon6.gif
 

Darell

Flashaholic
Joined
Nov 14, 2001
Messages
18,644
Location
LOCO is more like it.
[ QUOTE ]
Sasha said:
If I think that a particular member isn't liked by the others, should I send him his paypal back?

[/ QUOTE ]
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif Hmmm. Sure, this was probably written in jest - but this idea might have legs... assuming that if we give the money back, can we also ask the member not to post.

Seriously though, this is an excellent point.
 

Greta

Flashaholic
Joined
Apr 8, 2002
Messages
15,999
Location
Arizona
Marty... then vote with your wallet. Isn't that the CPF way?

There have been some individuals on CPF who have exhibited "poor business practices" also... should I "defrock" them of their supporter badges? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon6.gif
 

McGizmo

Flashaholic
Joined
May 1, 2002
Messages
17,290
Location
Maui
Poor business practices can and have been addresed on the forum. Buyer awareness and voting with your dollars hasn't changed.

From a personal and selfish standpoint, I am glad that a *certain* dealer has had a bad reputation which has caused many to steer away from them. I think this particular dealer has set prices, especially with "loss leaders", at levels that are too low for the health of the industry. If this dealer had a stellar reputation, their impact on the other dealers could have some long term adverse effects! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif What? A consumer advocating higher prices? Yup!

IMHO, CPF will better serve the community if *all* members of the community are welcomed, including those on the other side of the fence and other side of the tracks and other side of the ocean.

In keeping with the subject of this thread, "the neighborhood", I think the neighborhood should be as global in scope as possible. Certainly there have been members who have been banned and this will likely continue as the moderators deem necessary. I may not agree personally in some cases and I doubt some of you do either. However, unless the rules for banning include some code of business ethics or standards, I would think that any member of CPF would and should be fully entitled to any and all features that pertain to their status. Dealers and manufacturers who are non-members are welcome to CPF as I understand it and I hope this continues to be the case.

To my simple way of thinking, a public forum that has rules and protocols to follow for its members in terms of behavior is significantly different than an exclusive forum where there might be rules in place to exclude membership from the get go. Now I may have opened a can of worms here by citing the use of rules and some might like to see more rules in place. I think we have enough rules already and have faith in the CPF community to the extent that we don't need more rules. *
 

Doug S

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 20, 2002
Messages
2,712
Location
Chickamauga Georgia
[ QUOTE ]
Darell said:
[ QUOTE ]
Sasha said:
If I think that a particular member isn't liked by the others, should I send him his paypal back?

[/ QUOTE ]
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif Hmmm. Sure, this was probably written in jest - but this idea might have legs... assuming that if we give the money back, can we also ask the member not to post.

Seriously though, this is an excellent point.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hmmm.... Let's extend this a bit further. Can we take up a collection, send the money to Sasha, and buy the right to have some other member not be able to post? Could be a real money-maker if CPF is now "all about money".
 

x-ray

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 1, 2002
Messages
1,941
Location
London
[ QUOTE ]
Sasha said:
Doug... if the amount is right... (say... enough to buy THESE SHOES )... I can be bought... just let me know who you want banned... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif



[/ QUOTE ]

Put%20your%20best%20foot%20forward.jpg


A little more refined compared to your usual footwear /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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