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Thread: TigerLight Upgrade Offerings (summary)

  1. #1
    *Flashaholic* js's Avatar
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    Default TigerLight Upgrade Offerings (summary)

    This is not a signup or B/S/T thread. This thread is meant to provide information about the mods.

    This is a SUMMARY thread only! Please do not offer suggestions for changes or substitutions or reasons why you won't be buying one of these offerings or why you like something else better. I encourage you to post these sorts of comments in "The TigerLight Upgrade Thread" where I will welcome them and respond if appropriate. The whole point of this thread is to eliminate superfluous and repeat postings, not to multiply them.

    First of all, all of these offerings are "Turn-Key", drop-in mods and require no technical expertise or experience. The one thing to note is that the Tiger85 offering requires that you send me your charging harness for me to modify. (For those in the UK, Frame57 has graciously offered to do the mod for me--Thanks Frame57!--see below).

    I will list the offerings from least expensive to most expensive. I will also be editing this post to keep it completely up to date.

    1. WA01274 in a modified Carley RF1940 reflector:

    This is a drop-in lamp assembly that is brighter than the stock TL LA. Runtime with the stock battery pack is on the order of 40 minutes. I got 41 minutes with my pack, but there are different generations of TL stock battery packs, so this could vary. I highly doubt, however, that it will be less than 30-35 minutes no matter which pack is used. Going by the WA re-rating formulas, the 1274 driven at 7.0-7.2 volts should be on a par with the 1160 in a stock MC and should have a similar beam. It out throws and out lumens the stock LA at the expense of some run time and should have a life of around 40 hours (i.e. 50 percent failure rate after 40 hours, but some will fail earlier than this, some later, on a more or less gaussian distribution). The WA re-rating formulas suggest 553 bulb-lumens, or 360 lumens out the front of the light.

    The CarleyRF1940 reflector is available in both a smooth and an orange peel texture which will smooth out beam artifacts. I am potting all of the WA lamps into a "fixture-ring" which slides up into the bore of the 1940 and which is secured by the set screw. I detailed this in my fixture-ring lamp potting thread. The ring-potted lamp will come fully focused and secured in the reflector, but when the lamp dies, all you need to replace is the ring-potted lamp and not the reflector. You can also buy different reflectors for the same lamp and change the focus as you prefer. Please note: I will NOT guarantee any of the lamps for hours of life. The RF1940's are modified to fit the TL. Price is $20 + shipping for both, or $8 for just the ring-potted 1274 WA lamp, or $12 for only the modded 1940.

    2. 6 cell Custom Battery pack + WA01111 in a modified Carley RF1940.

    This offering requires a higher current capable custom battery pack. The pack is a drop-in replacement for the stock pack and changing the pack out is nearly as simple as changing the 9 volt battery in a smoke detector. I detail the construction of the 6 and 9 cell packs in my TigerLight Custom Batterypack construction details thread. The custom pack is guaranteed for mechanical integrity for 1 year. Please note that I will not guarantee the number of cycles you will get nor will I replace a pack that has been accidentally completely depleted. NiMH batteries do not like to be dropped or drained down below a certain voltage. I use KAN 1800 4/5A's for this 6 cell pack. The custom pack will charge just fine on the stock charging system. Also note that the WA 1274 and stock LA will be slightly brighter with the custom packs. Cost: $44 + shipping.

    The WA01111 lamp puts out roughly double the light of the stock LA and runs for 29 minutes with the KAN pack. According to the WA re-rating formulas the 1111 will put out 800 bulb-lumens at 7.0 volts (this is the voltage plateau with the 6 cell KAN pack at 3.6 amps), or 520 lumens out the front of the light with a filament-life of around 11 hours. Cost: $23 for an 1111 in a 1940. $11 for ring-potted 1111 only. $12 for modified 1940 only.

    3. 9 cell, 10.8 volt custom battery pack with a WA01185 in a modified Carley RF1940, with a modified charging system.

    This is the ultimate TigerLight mod! I refer to it as the Tiger85. The pack is a 9 cell pack instead of a 6 cell pack. I use 9 KAN 1050 2/3A's to make this pack, but keep in mind that it looks almost identicle to the 6 cell packs and is an EXACT drop-in replacement to the stock pack.

    The custom 9 cell pack drives a WA01185 lamp which puts out 1233 bulb-lumens, or approximately 800 lumens out the front of the torch, with a filament life of around 12 hours. This is the brightest light I have ever used, although it's no Aurora. Runtime is a bit longer than 16 minutes.

    The charging harness needs to be modded by either me or Frame57 (for those in the UK). The mod involves installing a switch which allows you to choose either the stock 6 cell charging rate or the 9 cell charging rate. Thus it is a "reversible" mod. You can find details of the modified charging system in The TigerLight Upgrade Thread. Charging the 9 cell pack also requires a more potent wallwart which is provided with this offering. Note: the DC car adaptor plug will not charge the Tiger85 due to too low a voltage (12V). Cost: $44 for pack, $20 for harness mod and 15V wallwart, $20 for 1185 in a 1940, + shipping. $8 for ring potted 1185 only. $12 for modded RF1940 only.

    Field Test Notes:

    The Tiger74 (offering #1) has a significantly brighter hot spot than the stock LA, and also more spill light, but compared to the Tiger11 or Tiger85, the beam is narrower and thus the field of vision is narrower. I feel the need to cast the beam about to be able to see everything that's in front of me, whereas with the Tiger11 or Tiger85 you can really light up a lot of area in one go. The Tiger74 is brighter and whiter than the stock TL LA, but the lamp will likely not last nearly as long as the stock LA.

    The question on many people's minds is probably "should I get the Tiger85, or the Tiger11" and the questions I think you need to ask yourself are "Am I a reasonable person?" and "How much runtime do I really need?" Many people are in situations where they need the most light possible and runtime is not an issue. I read an LEO article about the SF M6, and the author was arguing that a fire-fight is over in less than a minute or two, and the law officer needed to have the most compact, brightest, most dependable light possible, and runtime was a secondary consideration. Not being an LEO I can't answer to the truth of this, but it's an illustration of what I'm talking about. Some people need an hour or more of runtime, others are OK with 16 minutes. Then, of course, most "reasonable" people, having the Tiger11 and Tiger85 side by side, would probably conclude that the Tiger11 is mostly as bright and has almost twice the run-time. Personally, I love the Tiger11. Trust me when I tell you that it is smokin' bright and throws very far and has great side spill. It's a beautiful light. Yet, if you're one of those people who like to push the boundaries, and who are willing to sacrifice some amount of practicality for performance--in short, if you are not "reasonable"--you would be likely to choose the Tiger85 over the Tiger11, because it certainly IS noticeably brighter, especially when it comes to spill light. The Tiger85 really lights up an area like you wouldn't believe for such a small light (FBOP version). It's like a high-perfomance motorcycle or sports car. There's just that little something extra about it. It goes to 11. So if you're not reasonable, the Tiger85 is for you.

    In the sets of beam shots below, the Tiger85 is first, and the stock TigerLight is second. The barn and bus shot is from 80 paces, or 210 feet. The car shot is from 50 feet or so, and in the last set (of the road) the red barn is 600 feet away. I used my Olympus D-550 digital camera in "night mode" with a tripod. Shutter speeds were 2 seconds, I think, but I can't be sure. It's possible that these shots are biased towards the dimmer light, but from my experience they are much more faithful to reality than the previous poor quality pictures.













    post script:

    I will not be offering the SL-35X LA's, but they can be used with the custom 6 cell packs and put out a great beam. Unfortunately at the 20 percent overdrive involved (7.2 vs. 6.0 volts) they have a tendency to insta-flash (i.e. blow) when first turned on, especially when the light is hot off the charger.

    Feel free to PM me with questions.
    Last edited by js; 07-28-2014 at 11:52 PM. Reason: fix image links

  2. #2
    Flashaholic*
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    Default Re: TigerLight Upgrade Offerings (summary)

    Thanks for this Jim [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

  3. #3

    Default Re: TigerLight Upgrade Offerings (summary)

    Ditto. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I just ordered a second TL so that I can order #2 and #3 from your list above when it is available. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif[/img] Thanks!

  4. #4
    Flashaholic J_Oei's Avatar
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    Default Re: TigerLight Upgrade Offerings (summary)

    Put me down for #3.
    Paypal at the ready...

  5. #5
    Flashaholic Ross's Avatar
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    Default Re: TigerLight Upgrade Offerings (summary)

    Yup, #3 for me as well, paypal waiting....

  6. #6
    Enlightened
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    Default Re: TigerLight Upgrade Offerings (summary)

    Put me down for the #3 also. Thanks

    Magcharger UCL Combo, TigerLight, 3x5 Tristar, 3x3 Tristar, EternalMax, Super Baby Pin, Illuminator Pro HD, Ultra Infinity, Anglelux, Blaster VI, XM2 (preordered), VIP (preordered)

  7. #7
    Flashaholic*
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    Default Re: TigerLight Upgrade Offerings (summary)

    I will add to the #3 list. I am in and would like maybe an extra bulb or two. Ordering my TL today or tomorrow.

  8. #8
    *Flashaholic* js's Avatar
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    Default Re: TigerLight Upgrade Offerings (summary)

    I was asked the following questions, and others may have the same ones, so I will answer in a post:

    [ QUOTE ]
    What is the estimated bulb life for either option 2 or 3?
    How much brighter is option 3 compared to option 2?
    Is the focus adjustable?
    Is the light output from the upgrades whiter or at least comparable to the stock LA?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The WA re-rating formulas suggest that the 1111 at 7.2 volts will have a life of 11 hours and that the 1185 at 10.8 volts will have a life of 12 hours. The 1274 driven at 7.2 volts (which is the design voltage) has a life of 40 hours. I believe that these are the number of hours to 85 percent brightness.

    The WA re-rating formulas also suggest that the 1111 at 7.2 volts will put out 880 bulb-lumens, and thus 572 lumens out the front of the torch (65 percent). The 1274 puts out 553 bulb-lumens and thus 360 torch lumens, which is almost exactly the same bulb-lumen output as the 1160 driven at 6.0 volts, such as in the MC-WA1160.

    At least this is what the WA re-rating forumulas tell us. Keep in mind that they are not exact predictors of the behavior of a bulb driven at an off-spec voltage. So my best guess answers to the first question are that option 3 is a fifty percent increase in total output over option 2, which is in turn almost a sixty percent increase over option 1 driven by the custom pack. For reference, TigerLight quotes the torch-lumens of the stock LA as 275, if I remember correctly. When I have more certainty regarding these I will edit my initial post and perhaps add some beam-shots.

    The focus is adjustable! As I said above. However, it is not adjustable "real-time". Readjusting the focus requires a 2 mm allen wrench and requires opening up the light. It is not hard to do, but it's not something you'd do in the field. I personally have not found any benefit to defocusing the lamp assembly. I do not find the hot spot to be too tight, and there is a good amount of spill light even from the 1274.

    The light from the upgrades is very nice: bright and white. More so than the stock LA, which is already bright and white. The reason for this is that the lamps are being driven harder and have a shorter life span. That's the trade off. The stock LA is guaranteed for six months! So keep that in mind when deciding whether or not to buy any of these. The 1274 has a lifespan on a par with the various SureFire lamps (40 hours), while the 1111 and 1185 have a third to a quarter the life span. (11-12 hours).

    Thanks everyone for your interest. I can use the support and encouragement at the moment.

  9. #9
    Flashaholic*
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    Default Re: TigerLight Upgrade Offerings (summary)

    [ QUOTE ]
    js said:
    ... I can use the support and encouragement at the moment.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Jim [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif[/img]

    You've got my support [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif[/img]

    Thank you so much for all the hard work you've put in for us "non-techies" at CPF [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

  10. #10
    Flashaholic
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    Default Re: TigerLight Upgrade Offerings (summary)

    Jim, ur da man, keep up the good work. I think everyone is keen on the end results of the testing being done, and then put in their orders. Support u all the way.

  11. #11

    Default Re: TigerLight Upgrade Offerings (summary)

    Ditto Jim, you have all of our support and gratitude. If you need us to prepay to help out, just let us know!

    Looking forward to my M6 killer. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif[/img]

  12. #12
    Enlightened agent8698's Avatar
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    Default Re: TigerLight Upgrade Offerings (summary)

    At first I thought, maybe upgrade offering #1 would be good enough, but then I thought about why I have my TigerLight in the first place, which is: brute strength, overwhelming light output in a small package. That's when I realized that I want upgrade offering #3, especially since I almost never use the TigerLight more than 17 minutes in a day. As for the reduced bulb life, I can live with that too, I'll just buy some extra bulbs.

    Please put me down for #3. Max

  13. #13
    Flashaholic*
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    Default Re: TigerLight Upgrade Offerings (summary)

    Ok.. Ordered my TL... To make sure I understand correctly, upgrade #3 will
    Cost: $44 for pack, $20 for harness mod and 15V wallwart, $18 for 1185 in a 1940, + shipping. $6 for ring potted 1185 only. $12 for modded RF1940 only.



    Therefore it will be $82 bucks plus $6 for ring potted 1185 only (extra bulbs). Is that correct or for extra bulbs? Or, do we have to do the $18 for 1185 in a 1940 to get extra bulbs?

    Sorry for the confusion. Trying to sort out the funds.

    Can this mod use a UCL lens? Would it be benificial or necessary?

    Thanks

    Curtis

  14. #14
    *Flashaholic* js's Avatar
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    Default Re: TigerLight Upgrade Offerings (summary)

    Curtis,

    You've understood correctly, except there is a shipping charge on top of the $90, and, yes, a ring-potted 1185 all by itself is only $5.

    However, keep in mind that these prices are only approximate at the moment. I am going to sit down and do a careful accounting to make sure I will end up making a token amount of money for my time at which point I will set definite prices. All sorts of little things that you don't think about at first end up adding up to a significant amount of money.

    As for a UCL:

    A UCL OR OTHER GLASS LENS IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY IF YOU ARE GOING TO RUN ANY OF THESE MODS. You can't get by without one. An 1185 on 9 NiMH's will melt a lexan lens in short order, and the 1111 and 1274 won't be far behind.

    Oh, and thanks everyone for the show of support! It's really great.

  15. #15
    Flashaholic*
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    Default Re: TigerLight Upgrade Offerings (summary)

    Thanks for the update JS. I understand that the price may change....hopefully it goes down. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I also just went ahead and ordered the UCL for the TL from flashlightlens.com

    Thanks again for the info.

    Curtis

  16. #16

    Default Re: TigerLight Upgrade Offerings (summary)

    Jim,
    You're a brave man for doing this. I know a build of this type is laborious to say the least. My hat's off to you.
    Wilkey

  17. #17
    Flashaholic* darkgear.com's Avatar
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    Default Re: TigerLight Upgrade Offerings (summary)

    [ QUOTE ]
    Ginseng said:
    Jim,
    You're a brave man for doing this. I know a build of this type is laborious to say the least. My hat's off to you.
    Wilkey

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Ditto that. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

    Sign me up for #3

    Best regards,
    Randy

  18. #18

    Default Re: TigerLight Upgrade Offerings (summary)

    [ QUOTE ]
    js said:
    As for a UCL:
    A UCL OR OTHER GLASS LENS IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY IF YOU ARE GOING TO RUN ANY OF THESE MODS. You can't get by without one. An 1185 on 9 NiMH's will melt a lexan lens in short order, and the 1111 and 1274 won't be far behind.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Oooh yeah! I look forward to melting my stock lens. The stock TL setup takes too long to melt it. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif[/img]

  19. #19
    *Flashaholic* js's Avatar
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    Default Re: TigerLight Upgrade Offerings (summary)

    Everything is on schedule so far, despite a complication with my ring-potting scheme. I expect to open up B/S/T threads in two weeks.

    In addition, I will be posting comparison beam shots of the three offerings to help people judge just how much light and what kind of beam the mods will deliver.

    Thanks everyone.

  20. #20
    Flashaholic*
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    Default Re: TigerLight Upgrade Offerings (summary)

    JS, you must have some spare time , or maybe you just like it here on the cpf, but what a nice offering it will be. I will be in for either #2 or #3, I just haven't decide yet but am appreciative of all your efforts.

  21. #21

    Default Re: TigerLight Upgrade Offerings (summary)

    JS...Count me in for #3. Should I PayPal you? Thanks

  22. #22

    Default Re: TigerLight Upgrade Offerings (summary)

    Jim:

    I will definitely want #3 and probably #1,too. Please let me know how much $ and when to send the Paypal.

  23. #23
    *Flashaholic* js's Avatar
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    Default Re: TigerLight Upgrade Offerings (summary)

    Judgedog, Jerimoth, and others,

    Thanks very much for your interest. I'm excited to be nearing the end of the development phase and the beginning of the build runs.

    Please note, however, that the "official" sign up list will be the B/S/T thread, when I open it. Don't worry! I will not be cutting off the thread after a certain number of entries. Everyone will get in on it who wants to. I will also post an email address for those who are not registered with CPF (and who do not want to register).

    This thread will contain the final prices, and beam shots, and runtimes and so on, BEFORE I open the B/S/T thread, so people can make an informed decision.

  24. #24
    *Flashaholic* js's Avatar
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    Default Re: TigerLight Upgrade Offerings (summary)

    Note: I have edited the original post to increase the cost of the reflectors and WA lamps. The bare 1111 bi-pin costs $6, not the $3 which I remembered paying, plus the ring-potting scheme is now slightly more involved and will take me longer. I placed an order with Carley and the quantity discount on the 1940's wasn't anything to speak of, so I raised the price from $10 to $12 to take into account the time it takes me to mod one on the lathe, and also because the reflectors cost me around $8 shipped. Prices are still approximate, but this will be pretty close. Sorry to have to raise the estimate, but this is all fairly time intensive stuff.

  25. #25
    *Flashaholic* js's Avatar
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    Default Re: TigerLight Upgrade Offerings (summary)

    I have settled on using the KAN 1800 4/5A's over the Sanyo HR-4/5AU's. See the TigerLight Upgrade Thread for details. The good news is that this means the battery packs are cheaper. I put the approximate price half-way in between the cost of a KAN pack and the cost of a Sanyo pack. I have edited the approximate cost of the 6 cell pack to reflect this, and also changed the estimate of the 9 cell pack to the same, more accurate figure, as 9 KAN 1050's cost the same as 6 KAN 1800's, and there is only a bit more time involved in building the 9 cell packs.

  26. #26

    Default Re: TigerLight Upgrade Offerings (summary)

    The big question is: When will your mods be available to the rest of us?

  27. #27
    *Flashaholic* js's Avatar
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    Default Re: TigerLight Upgrade Offerings (summary)

    [ QUOTE ]
    Judgedog said:
    The big question is: When will your mods be available to the rest of us?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    7 posts up, you will find an estimate of two weeks for the opening of the B/S/T thread. That's still about right, so in less than two weeks the B/S/T thread will open and you can sign up for what you want. I will keep it open for 1 week, then close it and order all the supplies I will need. I have pre-ordered reflectors, but my estimate may be low and I may have to order some more. On the other hand, I have not yet pre-ordered any of the Welch Allyn lamps because I really don't have a good feel for how many I will need, and they have a $100 minimum order, vs. the $50 minimum for Carley. I may or may not pre-order some WA lamps, but even if I do, they could take as long as a month to fill and ship the order. So this is probably the limiting factor on how fast I can get these mods out there. The batteries will get to me fast, as well as the other supplies, most of which I have stocked up on. So, my best guess is that apart from field testers, no one will have one of these mods sooner than 6 weeks from now. That could be off, especially if I take the risk of pre-ordering WA lamps and they fill my order quickly. I am thinking seriously about doing just that, so we shall see. I just don't want to slightly underestimate the demand and then have to order another $100 worth of lamps; nor do I want to overestimate and end up sitting on $75 worth of WA lamps. Although, I guess I could sell them eventually. It just gives me pause, I guess. I will keep you all informed, as usual.

    Sorry for the convoluted answer, but it's the best I can give you at the moment.

  28. #28
    *Flashaholic* js's Avatar
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    Default Re: TigerLight Upgrade Offerings (summary)

    Good news!

    I called Welch Allyn on Friday and found out that the 1111's and 1185's were both in stock, so I ordered some and they will ship out Monday, May 17th. I also ordered some 1274's, but they will need to be made first and will ship out separately at a later date. I ordered 10 1111's and 20 1185's and 10 1274's, and I have 1 1111, 4 1274's and 5 1185's on hand already. Even if only the people who have already spoken up buy mods, I will still not be left with too much inventory, and I have enough lamps to make a good number of offerings, so I feel pretty good about the situation. Besides, one can never have too many 1185's on hand. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    So, I will be opening the B/S/T thread on Friday the 21st. I will be giving priority to those who have already posted in this thread or in The TigerLight Upgrade Thread. If you PMed me wanting to get signed up but did not post anywhere I may not have a record of the PM, sorry. Again, everyone who wants to get in on this will be able to, but one group of people will get their stuff before the others, because I will have to wait on Carley and WA orders if I run out of my current stock of lamps or reflectors. However, for my part, I will do everything I can (within reason) to get these mods out to people ASAP. I know how it feels to wait and wait and wait on something. Rest assured, when I get to the point of taking payments, I will work continuously until all the orders are filled. Also, at this point, I do not have plans to close the B/S/T thread after a certain length of time, but on the other hand, I won't guarantee that it will remain open indefinitely.

    Now, I will still have to order batteries and wait for them to get to me. Plus, I will wait for a week after the thread opens before ordering to make sure I get the most for my shipping dollars, so realistically that means the second week in June or later before I ship stuff out. For the most part, anyway. Please keep in mind that I've never done this before, so this is just my best guess. A lot goes into making a battery pack, not the least of which is doing the .1C charge/.5C discharge/1C charge cycling. That's a definite bottleneck, as I can only do one or two packs at a time.

    OK. I hope all of this seems fair to everyone. Keep an eye out for beamshots of the various options vs. stock and vs. each other. I can't wait to put up Tiger85 beamshots. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

  29. #29
    Flashaholic Ross's Avatar
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    Default Re: TigerLight Upgrade Offerings (summary)

    Excellent news Jim, thanks very much for all your hard work in creating the ultimate Tigerlight!!

  30. #30
    Flashaholic* Monolith's Avatar
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    Default Re: TigerLight Upgrade Offerings (summary)

    I'm in for a #3 with both smooth and orange peel RF1940's + spare bulbs.

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