Time will tell

I am amazed at the good and the bad I have seen and heard recently about ARC.

I have not seen ANYTHING here in the US that gives SureFire a run for quality and ARC beats them for innovation (forget what Micro$oft has done to co-opt that word).

ARC is aiming for a different market segment and it would be a major loss if this attempt was to fail.

I await the outcome of the current events like everyone else but I have to say that I have fervent hopes that ARC will continue to be successful and provide quality intstruments to a market that is only now being realized and permeated with quick-to-market low end, low quality lights.

I do not know the details of the business dealings and am tired to my soul of the crap thet all people have put up with when major money is involved.

I just hope that someday in the future I'll be able to purchase a light like the ARC 4 rev 2 or better FROM ARC.

Thanks 14C! Yes, it has been a wild time lately. That is for sure. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Problems with contractors are one thing but problems with our products really make me sad when they happen. We have to work the problems and keep moving forward though.

I have been seeing indicators lately things could be on the way up (already used up the down direction to it's full extent I hope).

Thanks again.

Still full of spunk! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Peter

Hang in there, PG! I second everything 14C said. It takes uncommon skill to combine all the different manufacturing and design and marketing aspects to bring such wonderful lights to the people. Keep up your vision of creating the best EDC! I marvel at all the work that went into creating the LSHF-P I have. And I'm looking forward to the Arc5 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif!

Hang in there Peter and Merri. All will be well.

Remember one of the classic (but paraphrased) lines from the movie "A League of Their Own": What you`re doing is SUPPOSED to be hard...if it was easy, everyone would be doing it.

Just thought I'd chime in and add my best wishes for Peter and Arc. Arc is still my favorite flashlight company, and I'm sure it always will be.

And I third 14C's sentiments to Peter, Merri, and co.
I have the Arc4+ second on my website now, but have not yet assigned it a rating because it's a second. But I don't expect the Arc4+ to receive anything less than 4 1/2 stars when I do get my hands on a first, evaluate it, and then rate it. Might even get a spot in my Trophy Case too.

Keep Plugging away Peter.....
Best of luck to you and all the success in the world.

Ditto ! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Britt

Uhhhhhhhhhh,,,,,,,,,, what is going on? I've been away from the board for a month and it sounds like Peter's going down the tubes financially? What's up????!!!!!

People have got to understand that Arc Flashlight Company isn't as big as your Surefire, Maglight, Pelican....flashlight companies.

Peter is STILL trying his hardest to find honest high quality manufacturing houses that can make the bodies, and electronics at a reasonable cost for his company and, ultimately, to us. Cost for these flashlights are high for a reason, and the waiting period to replenish his stock is lengthy for a reason as well.

You've got to take into consideration that the staff at Arc is less than 20, possibly even less than 10. The quality of these flashlights are first rate considering all that. Will there be faulty flashlights? Of course, especially is he's trying to pump out as many flashlight as possible. Can you imagine the pressure? We CPFers hound him to hurry with productions, and then when they are produced, we hound him to fix the problems. So far he's done both...but he isn't superhuman, so i don't expect super perfection.

If people still want to ***** and moan...go right on ahead, it is after all your opinion. But at least consider the conditions that the Arc Flashlight company is working under. Tough legal issues, manufacturing problems and a lot of politics are holding him back right now, and yet, he is still able to bring us want we want.

In my opinion, i still consider Peter and his company as a custom flashlights manufactuerer...not even that...a hobbiest who is trying to make a profit with his creations. Peter started out like Electrolumens, The Sandwich Shop, and many other moders turned manufacturers on our board. Peter is still that in my book. If you are expecting an infant company to pump out flashlights with the quality and quantity of Surefire, (even) Maglight, Pelican, Streamlight...etc...then you are asking too much from him. There aren't these big machines, conveyor belts, and computers that put together and quality check each unit. Only a handful of HUMAN staff members, including Peter and his wife, put them together by hand, check them by hand, and package them by hand. Now that is American manufacturing. If you want to buy some knock off made somewhere else for cheaper...then go for it. But i'm stickin' with the original. But again...that's just my opinion.

Thanks for listening. ROCK ON PETER and ARC STAFF!

Peter, when my arc 4+ came in with a defective switch, my instincts were to just get my money back and go buy another expensive toy. However my desire to see Arc succeed, and my understanding of what it is like to get a small business started made me send it in for a fix instead. It is good to build up goodwill, because there will come times when you need to use it. Hang in there.

Rick

Good points Laurence. I like to think I have it tougher that most but of course, it could be just my perspective. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Thanks Rick for giving me an oppratunity to fix the light. Your right about the "value of a good name" but I also don't want Arc to rest on its laurels.

It is frustrating to have flashlight ideas and have to wait so long to see them come to fruition.

Peter

And the only way for things to grow and more creation to come is free cash flow, please keep buying ARC Products. The copiers will not bring us anything new.

Long time no see Peter, apparently I've been hiding under a rock for the last few months. Though I don't have all the facts, I wish Arc and all your staff the best and hope you pull through yet another ordeal and continue setting examples of American innovation and entrepeneurship.

CM

I, too, would like to see Peter and Merri thrive. Their customer service has been a very refreshing change from what we've gotten used to from other companies.

As a suggestion, I'd like to see Peter bring much of his operation back in house. That way the quality can be controlled better, the production is more consistant and the profit stays in his pocket.

I can see farming out the "real expensive" stuff like wafer fab, but making circuit boards is not rocket science or even very expenisve. Neither is CNC machining. There is an up front expense, but if you consider how much was lost due to missed oportunities, it might have worked better.

I've never understood the allure of outsourcing work. If the other guy is doing your work cheaper than you AND making money, there's a good chance that there's scrimping or dishonesty going on somewhere.

Daniel

[ QUOTE ]
gadget_lover said:Their customer service has been a very refreshing change from what we've gotten used to from other companies.

[/ QUOTE ]
Absolutely. And we are an irresistible crowd .-) not easy to deal with...

[ QUOTE ]
I've never understood the allure of outsourcing work. If the other guy is doing your work cheaper than you AND making money, there's a good chance that there's scrimping or dishonesty going on somewhere.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not necessarly. A larger company (for example the machine shop) will buy the raw materials cheaper, larger machines are usually also less costly per unit and you have craftsmen working there who are focused on their profession. As we read in another thread from the machine shop owner who made the housings earlier (as much as I can remember most of the product range) they had some influence on the design. I was always happy to get in contact with these experienced people, it was always also a learning experience for myself.
And you could outsource work to areas with lower wages. As much as I remember Peter tried that with a Mexican workshop but they unfortunately could not deliver the quality. Here in middle Europe I would just go north to Czech republic or east to Hungary.

Outsourcing unfortunately (or fortunately depending your viewpoint) makes economic sense for many things. Arc is not big enough to buy a CNC machine IMO. The revenue stream just cannot justify the capital expenditure of CNC machine. Circuit board fab is another very costly endeavor to take on in house. There are chemical issues (EPA) involved that does not make sense to take on. Very large companies, and I mean those with sales in the tens or hundreds of millions, outsource circuit board fab. They simply do not want to deal with the mess. The contract manufacturer is making money not because of dishonesty or scrimping but simply because of his economies of scale. It's really a win-win situation for both the small operator and the large contract manufacturing houses. I work for a medium size company and we outsource many functions.

CM

While I agree that there are times when outsourcing work is reasonable, it does not always make sense. Times when it IS advisable include making very short runs of product or filling peak demand.

In ARC's case, the circuit boards are not complicated multi layer boards with hundreds of components. The chemical issues are no worse than what any plating shop contends with.

In ARC's case, the CNC machine does not have be that elaborate. The basic ARC4 shape has been duplicated on home lathes by amateurs.

The economy of scale that the contract manufacturer experiences is only on materials, and may not be any better than ARC can get. The contract manufacturer may get better utilization from his investment in machines, training, etc, but this is not always true.

In my industry (computer systems) I often see outsourced contacts that are deliberately incomplete so that "work orders" can add a hidden 20 to 50 percent more to the cost. I see quality levels that are not enforcable and delivery dates that are almost always missed. I see sub-contracts performed by unknown parties, resulting in intellectual property that is used in other areas of the country or other regions of the world.

It sounds like Peter has run into a lot of these issues. Late deliveries, QC problems, hidden costs and intellectual property that has been shared have all been mentioned in this forum.

Like all businessmen, I like to think that I can hire someone to hire someone to build something to my specs with great quality that I can sell in great numbers at 100 to 200 percent markup. It's supprising how often that does work, especially in the luxury market like jewelry, but that's in an area where volume allows the makers to sell the same products to many retailers. ARC has a small volume market.

I think a VP at the phone company said it best when evaluating an aoutsource contract that was proposed. "What makes you think the contracting company can do your job better than you can?"

Of course, once you take the work to a foreign land where the taxes, working conditions, wages and environmental concerns are different, the other guy might be able to do your job better.

A nice success story; Harry and David mail order gifts. I once took a tour of their plant in Medford Oregon. They make their baskets, their gift boxes, assemble their own packaging and most everything they sell is made or assembled in house. They grow much of their own fruit. They make a fortune on high quality gift baskets. They control their own quality.

Daniel

No worries Peter! We are here for ya. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

I met The Young Man himself less than three months ago at Las Vegas SHOT, and must say he is indeed a class act. Here's hoping that this too shall pass leaving Arc LLC unscathed. After all, what mighty standard would the rest of the lightmaking world have left to shoot for? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

Good luck Peter.