What happened to ARC ?

I first found this forum in december 2003 and bought an ARC LSHP-F almost instantly because everybody here told about the qality and reliability of the extrodinary well-built ARC-lights and I wasn´t disappointed at all .
Got the fantastic light I had expected .
If someone would enter this forum today for the first time , would he want to buy an ARC ?
I´m not sure .

Perhaps PG should give people the lights they want and his company grew famous with -the AAA ,AA , and LS -
and stop the 4+ until it is completely developed .
I don´t suppose PG to earn much money with his great customer service by replacing many 4+ .
BTW don´t forget the AAA intermittant problem .

Best wishes to Peter and ARC and I hope I can buy lights like the ones I got last year from him again in the future .



grew famous with -AAA , AA , LSH -

hephaistos,

If you do some searches on the forum, I think you can find the answer to your question in the subject line. You might find more than you wanted to know! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif You have made some interesting comments on how you suggest Peter might consider doing business and his offerings. Since this is Peter's forum and he has been very open in the past and included the members of CPF in his business plan, your comments and points are probably welcome here.

Since I also see this new thread as a possible host for other Arc related business issues which have recently been discussed on CPF, as a member of CPF, nothing more or nothing less, I hope this thread doesn't become a carrier for some of those "issues" that are really not part of, or appropriate for, a public forum such as CPF. JMHO.

Mine work fine,two 4+'s.Two co-workers have purchased a total of three Arc 4 seconds and those work fine.I want the Arc 4.The Arc LSH series are great tools.But after the 4+ I'm spoiled,I find myself comparing most other new lights to my scratched and gouged Arc 4+.When showing the lights to others,almost without fail, everyone likes the 4+.Its the adjustable levels that they find cool and/or useful.That and just the throw,at night,outdoors,that really impresses many.Especially from a light I can close my hand around and it just disappears!I hope I can buy lights like I got,this year,from Arc next year.As a newbie,I just don't think both sides of the coin are being seen here as often as they should be.J.M.H.O.

I only have an ARC-AAA and a ARC-AA. Those are the only lights that ARC makes that are really appropriate for me. I went to a great deal of trouble to find/obtain them since I've only read about them since the manufacturing/legal troubles began.

I love them. Aside from the fact that they are magnificent little lights, they are truly pets for the hands.

Does anyone else understand that?

Yes, that's exactly correct, I feel the same way about the McLux and the Firefly as well as the Arc AAA (I don't have an Arc AA), and sometimes about the CMG Infinity/Infinity Ultra, Tekna Splashlite and even the PT Blast and PT Surge. But not so much about the Arc4, the PT Rage, the Streamlight TL3, the Minimag, etc. I'd say the Dorcy 1AA 3LED is a nicer user light than the CMG Ultra and presumably the Arc AA, but it doesn't inspire anything like the fondness that the CMG and Arcs do.

If you like the feeling of the AA + AAA , touch an LS and you will never let it go ! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

The latest Arc4's have the problematic issues (switch, pulsing) cleared up according this thread: Failure Analysis/Proposed Solutions.

[ QUOTE ]

PG said:
People who have recently received their Arc4s back from us tell us that the switch is now working much better.


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps PG should give people the lights they want and his company grew famous with -the AAA ,AA , and LS -
and stop the 4+ until it is completely developed.

[/ QUOTE ]

If there was anything to your conveniently timed concerns hephaistos, I wouldn't find myself happily carrying my Arc4+ daily while my formerly cherished LSH-P lies unused in a drawer. I'm quite satisfied with my Arc4+, and I don't seem to be alone. Its best feature is ARC's exemplary customer service and Peter's obvious dedication to remaining accessible to his customers and this community.

There does seem to be a lot of "concern" for ARC though among recent arrivals to CPF. Interesting phenomena.

I love my lsl-p but haven't gone back to it since I got my 4 second. I'm glad I didn't wait for the rev2. I hope Arc can get everything resolved soon.

Wisti, I had two LS's and sold them. They had the 123 TSP and I'm sure I would have liked the original twisty version better, but the TSP version always seemed like a kludge to me. The LS was a nice light in its time, one of the first compact Luxeon lights with a boost converter. But the stuff around now, the Arc4 in the high-tech direction and the Firefly in the simplicity direction, make the LS unexciting today, IMO.

I tend to disagree paulr /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
The LS is still small, it has a runtime of 2h+ which leaves the FF in the dark, it is the simplest design possible and I do not recall any problems with these lights, not on the hardware side nor on the user side.
For me, the LS still rules. ANd it can be modded to be a real demon /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin07.gif
On the TSP we do agree though, I never could understand why PG made this one. Twisty rulez!
bernhard

I may be in the minority, but I've always liked the clicky tailcap. Back when I got my first Arc LS, it came with the twisty tailcap. I later bought the clicky just to test it out, but for me it changed the Arc LS from a fun toy to something that I actually used frequently. I know that the Kroll switch isn't up to the same quality as the rest of the flashlight, but it has never given me any problems.

I have a special place in my heart for the LSH-P. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Waldo is a LSH-P that Merri had engraved for me. The blue, "powered by Luxeon" lights were all LSH-P. The LSH-P has appeared more on TV and in magazines than any other Arc. A Halburton case full of special LSH-P were sent to a certain X prize contestant and are being used by the crews (who knows, maybe the LSH-P will be in space this fall). My wedding gift to the best man and father of the bride were LSH-P.

The rev2 design which included the LSH-P was the first flashlight ever in production to have temperature limit, first to use current regulation with a luxeon and the first to incorporate a high dome emitter.



The LSH-P was an advancement in flashlight technology. It still has very few rivals. The Arc4 is meant to continue that advancement to the next level. The Arc4 is meant to replace the LSH-P. To do that, I took the goal of the LSH-P (large EDC) and applied several design goals. I want to perfect the switch (ironic as it seems right now. LOL, but this will pass), make the unit more durable in drops (ditto), make the tempurature limiting more precise (score), make the beam smoother (goal!), brighter (by almost 2x in some cases), make it easier to manufacture (ok, still working on that), add multiple brightness levels (per Darell's suggestion), make the lens tougher (good progress) and make the unit smaller (still working on that), add a clip (good), accept a wider input voltage (good), etc.

Yes, that was a lot to bite off in one revision. I agree. I am obsessed with the idea of a perfect EDC. The Arc4 is not perfect but I have stopped carrying my LSH-P and now carry an Arc4 (#650) with me every day.

Peter

Peter,
I love the LSH-P. My only wish is that you had continued developing some other tailcaps for it. Would have been nice to have a twisty with a spring inside to stop battery rattle and damage to the battery itself. Or an enclosed clickie in the style of the Longbow clickie. I think you could sell a ton of either of these. Just my thoughts. I do love the LS series of lights. They are very well constructed but the one topic that comes up again and again is the tail switch.
Jeff

[ QUOTE ]
Gransee said:
The downside? I need a vacation! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Peter

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What?! Hey, you had a vacation when you field tested the ARC4. We all saw the pictures. You want another one, give us another flashlight!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

As a "recent arrival," I've had the opposite impression - that CPF seems to be full of Arc apologists. When my friend jasonmurray posted about his dissatisfying experience with Arc, he was as much as accused of having ulterior motives. That was quite surreal and disheartening to me. It seems like anytime anyone has anything negative to say about Arc, half a dozen people post within minutes saying how much they adore Arc and Peter and question the poster's motives. I understand customer loyalty, but that - to me - is extreme.

Don't get me wrong... I have an Arc4+ Premium Rev 2 now, and after EDCing it for a week, I'm getting pretty attached to it. I'm impatiently awaiting the availability of the tailguard and 2-cell body. I'm not an Arc hater by any stretch. I admire Peter's innovation and drive.

[ QUOTE ]
Gransee said:
...add multiple brightness levels (per Darell's suggestion

[/ QUOTE ]Oooh! I just love it when I get credit for my whining! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif And I have to hand it to Peter for making it happen. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif The brightness levels are, hands down, my favorite feature of the Arc4. After fooling with the menu for the first few weeks of ownership, I can barely remember how to do anything... but I can sure use all four brightness levels!

Bernhard, a Firefly set up with the same brightness as an Arc LS (e.g. with a BB300) will have about the same runtime as the LS. With a BB650, of course it will have less runtime if you run it flat out, but with the two-level switch you can run it at much lower current a lot of the time, giving it MORE runtime than the LS. Of course the Arc4 has even greater adjustability and runtime potential (I use mine on level 16 a fair amount). All in all I agree with Peter that the LS is historically important and I can understand why people who got them back in those days are still fond of them (I didn't get mine til fairly late in the cycle). But I'd also have to say that despite my early skepticism, Peter was quite successful in making the Arc4 a worthy replacement for the LS. That's not to denegrate the LS in the slightest--it's just technology marching on.

My first real LED flashlight was the LSH-P; I was so excited when I got it and still am. A few months after I received my LSH-P I got the idea in my head to get a SF-L4 thinking that brighter is better. I even thought about selling my LSH-P before the L4 arrived. Looking back it would have been a big mistake. I rarely use the L4 for my work. I would have to say that I use my LSH-P 5 to1 over the L4. Because of the size I am much more likely to take it with me even if I don't think that I will need a light. Just drop it in my front pocket and it's there if I need it.

[ QUOTE ]
hephaistos said:
Perhaps PG should give people the lights they want and his company grew famous with -the AAA ,AA , and LS -
and stop the 4+ until it is completely developed

[/ QUOTE ]

You know it is always the problem of selling the products too early or too late. Some time ago, when the market was not that nervous, more time could be spent for testing etc. Nowadays we have wonderful tools, but the products are indefinitely more complicated.
The Arc4 rev1 seemed to have only very little problems and I'm very happy that I got one. But it was sold out in short time (about which we should be actually happy, I would also write that if I had not got one). As wee now read in other threads, somewhere at this time, there was a change in the staff and things like that are always problematic.
I've seen this situation a lot at my work. Even when everything is perfectly documented it is not easy to catch all the thoughts a technical person had.
Some people who are in touch with the software business know how difficult it may be to read another persons source code.
In our case it may be something in between the 'nuts and bolts' design (I'm not familiar with this phrase, but it sounds like something very simple mechanical which almost everybody can do, please enlighten me!) or more sophisticated. And then Peter changed something (we do not know how much, is it software (it probably has also changed), regulator or mechanical).
And we put a lot of pressure on him and he wanted to serve us with a better product ASAP (yes, yes, I may have been with the shouters when I would not have been lucky enough to get one from the first run and guilty too).
And a change in the staff causes a lot of additional stress (personal and technical), so things like that happen.
Not so serious (tongue in cheek) In my company, when somebody leaves it, we usually like to say: 'Oh, thats great, starting from now, we blame everything on you because you are no longer here and the boss has to believe us .-) '