What Does The Café Mean To You?

Empath

Flashaholic
Joined
Nov 11, 2001
Messages
8,508
Location
Oregon
In the index menus, there's a column labeled "Posts". I was noticing that the Café presently has 82877 posts. That's the most active forum on our board, with the General Flashlight Discussion forum trailing slightly, showing 82470. The other forums by comparison aren't even competitors. So, since the board's primary theme is flashlights, I found it interesting that the most used forum is not about flashlights. It's not that there's anything wrong with an off-topic forum receiving such heavy use; it's just interesting.

I became curious as to what attracts our members to our off-topic forum which we call The Café, thus the title of the thread. I thought it would be interesting to hear what the Café means to you, and what you might think it's purpose is, or for what you think it should be used. Since I started the thread, I guess I should go first.

I've no idea how many web-based boards there are, but their numbers grow daily. Very few are actually open boards of any-thing-goes. Instead, most have a specific theme, and as much as possible, the users are expected to adhere to that theme. As people become involved with the forums there is a common side-effect, so to speak. In addition to simply posting messages and reading, a social circle develops, with friendships and relationships that extend beyond the primary function of the board. In many cases these new relationships extend beyond the board. Sometimes there's meetings of the new friends, or possibly online relationships extending to other boards or net activities. Anyway, such a social atmosphere encourages discussions of more than whatever theme a board may profess.

Most boards, when recognizing the development of social relationships among their users, wisely attempt to accommodate them by permitting them to break free of strictly on-topic conversation. They generally establish a forum on their board, often called Off Topic that enables the users to relax in their efforts to remain on-topic and discuss other matters that may be of interest. Does this mean the board is expanding their objectives and incorporating new and additional themes for the board? Of course not. The board still has a primary purpose, but has simply provided a legitimate venue for socializing.

CPF recognizes the wisdom in this, and has provided an off-topic forum for us. Here the members can come and relax, and discuss subjects that aren't near as important or dear to our hearts as flashlights. But such discussions are still important to a circle of friends that do have an occasional stray thought outside of the realm of flashlights. Since we are among friends, we treat one another with respect, just as we would if we were physically together, recognizing that opinions vary, and that encroaching on other's convictions and political leanings is a very delicate venture.

There are some things an off-topic forum, or The Café is not. One thing it's not is a springboard for producing non-flashlight related forum topics within CPF. The forums of CPF are either flashlight related (or similar in interest), or it's a CPF administrative forum. Even our off-topic forum is related, in that it's "off-topic to flashlights" and not a specific topic to anything. Building a forum from an often discussed off-topic theme would be like having an off-topic forum dedicated to some sort of on-topic theme having nothing to do with the board's theme. (Try figuring out what that sentence means, and get back to me; I might need help with it the next time I read it). Another thing it's not, is a resource for a private highly controversial agenda. Just as in real life, a controversial agenda while not necessarily wrong, requires skill, diplomacy and an objective plan in order to do anything more than create conflict. Constant and non-judicious reference to a controversial topic would draw ire from most public settings, and The Café is no different. Readers of The Café are there for light, relaxing conversation. Light relaxing conversation can develop into something heavier, as can heavier conversation be introduced as a matter of interest. However, constant efforts to preach, condemn, convert, or browbeat is intimidation, and has nothing to do with the objectives or purposes of an off-topic forum. It's difficult to relax and enjoy friendly conversation while being told you're going to hell or your political leanings are the reason for the world's ills. It's also difficult to relax and enjoy friendly conversation while feeling it necessary to tell people they're going to hell or their political affiliation is the cause of the world's ills. Why bother?

Your turn.


P.S.- Disclaimer: This is strictly personal observation, and was not initiated as an administrative decision
 

idleprocess

Flashaholic
Joined
Feb 29, 2004
Messages
7,197
Location
decamped
The first time I browsed this forum, I was surprised by the amazing variety of topics. Stir-fried random is what came to mind after a glance at the first page.

Most people are rather set in their political ideals, so it's a waste of your time and theirs trying to convert - especially in a low-bandwidth, somewhat impersonal online forum where the means of communication are limited to static text and individual resistance to "hostile" persuasion is high. I enjoy some of the lighter back-and-forth debate in political threads, but I can understand why so many of them are closed by management.
 

jhereg

Enlightened
Joined
Sep 19, 2003
Messages
423
Location
Land of Oz (Dorothy, Toto,...
The Cafe is a place a place to get general information from people who have already shown a common interest. I disagree about the need for light topics, but definitely think light topics are easier for the moderators to control. I like some of the more serious topics on occasion, but everyone has to be careful to discuss the topic without degerating into name calling and insults. It can be done, but it's difficult. I guess I see the Cafe as a kind of clubhouse where everyone comes to unwind (& rant /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rant.gif a little /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twakfl.gif on occasion), but generally have a good time.

The Cafe might make a good training ground for new moderators. Where else can you find this level of lawlessness on CPF? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin07.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nana.gif
 

DieselDave

Super Moderator,
Joined
Sep 3, 2002
Messages
2,703
Location
FL panhandle
The Cafe provides me with job security. I get the big bucks (I earn every penny I might add) for being a mod. here. If not for the political and religious threads my job might not be necessary.

Seriously,
I have learned so much in the Cafe. Everything from how to "sweat my pipes" on my hot water heater to info. about EV's in a thread that won't die even after 2 years (This one, Dave? - Darell). There are so many people here that have so much knowledge and experience to share it's amazing. I thoroughly enjoy the forum and feel honored to share in it.
 

Joe Talmadge

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 30, 2000
Messages
2,200
Location
Silicon Valley, CA
The Cafe is one of my single favorite forums, among all the bulletin boards I read (and there's a bunch of 'em). Interesting topics, interesting folks. It's become my fave forum on CPF, of course.
 

tylerdurden

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 11, 2003
Messages
2,083
Location
Roaming Around - Southern USA
[ QUOTE ]
Empath said:
In the index menus, there's a column labeled "Posts". I was noticing that the Café presently has 82877 posts. That's the most active forum on our board, with the General Flashlight Discussion forum trailing slightly, showing 82470. The other forums by comparison aren't even competitors. So, since the board's primary theme is flashlights, I found it interesting that the most used forum is not about flashlights. It's not that there's anything wrong with an off-topic forum receiving such heavy use; it's just interesting.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's really not that much considering the flashlight-related posts are spread across a ton of sub-forums while all of the off-topic posts are concentrated in one area.

[ QUOTE ]
Empath said:
It's difficult to relax and enjoy friendly conversation while being told you're going to hell or your political leanings are the reason for the world's ills.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's also difficult to enjoy an interesting (if somewhat heated) debate when the moderators are too quick to pre-emptively shut down a thread. I agree that some threads occasionally degenerate and need to be put out of their misery, but lately a lot of threads have been closed merely because they "might" get ugly. It's one thing when someone re-opens an out-of-control thread that someone just closed, but a new topic with a reasonable argument shouldn't be closed just because it's potentially explosive or (even worse) the moderator "isn't in the mood today." If the moderator isn't in the mood to police the thread, they should take the day off and let another moderator do the job of moderating.

Most of the time the trolls are easy to spot and are ignored. It's usually obvious which threads are likely to attract these kind of comments, so if they're really going to mess up your relaxation, you can simply avoid those threads. Most people here are smart enough to know that they don't have to read every thread. CPF members will police themselves in many cases. Moderator action should be rare, and I think it is, though it's slowly becoming less rare, which is an "interesting" development.
 

raggie33

*the raggedier*
Joined
Aug 11, 2003
Messages
13,453
when i first came her i thoght the sandwich shop was the general dicsion forum of are board. lol im kinda stupid
 

metalhed

Enlightened
Joined
Jan 29, 2004
Messages
671
Location
Washington State
I know this is sensitive territory...but since a Mod asked...

I agree with tylerdurden, sometimes the inconsistent closing of threads in the Cafe is perplexing and frustrating. In fact, IMHO, it runs contrary to the very idea of community.

Just as the members of a real-world community may share culture or geographic location, this community shares a common interest in flashlights and torches. And just as some members of real-world communities seek to discuss much more than local culture or geography, some of us desire to discuss much more than just flashlights (not that there's anything wrong with that /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif !).

A real-world community in which dialogue between individuals is censored or prevented by those in control is dysfunctional. A community cannot be considered healthy unless free dialogue is permitted. Do we permit threats or slander in the real-world community? Of course not. And we shouldn't tolerate it here. But controversial opinions, disputed facts, heated debate, and reluctant enlightment are foundations of our American political and social institutions. The occasional forensic 'train-wreck' is the price we pay for the advantages of a free community and society. And after all, we don't keep all the trains in the station just because of an occasional wreck do we?

To me,the Cafe means that this site has grown to become more than just a message board.

It has become a community (and I must say, this appears to have happened well before I joined as a member).
 

PhotonBoy

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 11, 2003
Messages
3,304
Location
Annapolis Valley, Nova Scotia, Canada http://tinyu
I enjoy CPF and like anything valuable, it costs money to provide. The ads pay for CPF. To attract and keep advertisers, CPF needs to avoid topics involving sex, religion and politics. Understanding this, it's still possible to engage in wide-ranging, interesting discussion. If you want spicier fare, Usenet newsgroups and IRC are there and waiting.
 

BuddTX

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Messages
2,521
Location
Houston, TX
Suprisingly, a tough question.

But seriously, thanks for asking it.

It is funny that a FLASHLIGHT fourm brings so many people together.

I think that WHO asks the question, means a lot to me, and if I will answer it.

If an older user, for example, asked a question, such as "Why did President Bush Say Bla bla bla today?"

I would probably respond differently than if a new user asked the SAME EXACT QUESTION.

I realise that, while most (if my sense is correct) that most users are Conserative Republicans, there are a good number of users that are LEVEL HEADED, INTELLEGENT LIBERALS.

It seems that new users, often anyway, post controvicial issues just to post them, and see the answer, whereas an older user seriously wants to get comments and opinions.
 

Kristofg

Enlightened
Joined
Apr 7, 2003
Messages
355
Location
Belgium
Infotainment in such topics as EVs, The political situation in the US as seen from it's citizens, The different laws in different states (I always thought all the states had more or less the same laws), the fact that religion seems to play a much more important role than in the E.U. and furthermore some real entertainment as in the Quotes from JerryM (I haven't read as much bibletexts in school as I have at the Café and I went to Catholic school) and the extreme-right winged posts which appear from time to time explaining that the US should try to take over the world. (Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?)
 

Greymage

Enlightened
Joined
Feb 19, 2002
Messages
406
Location
Austin, TX
I'd rather not have discussions about sex, politics, or religion in the Cafe - but that's because I enjoy them.

The point of a debate isn't necessarily to convince someone else of something - it's also an educational exercise, since to have a reasonable debate you have to do some digging into both sides of an issue.
 

Kitchener

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Apr 4, 2004
Messages
146
Location
Wilmington, DE
[ QUOTE ]
tylerdurden said:
Moderator action should be rare, and I think it is, though it's slowly becoming less rare, which is an "interesting" development.

[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts, as well. Sometimes it's not entirely clear what the moderator is afraid of.
 

Bravo25

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 17, 2003
Messages
1,129
Location
Kansas, USA
Well, glad you asked! I enjoy the cafe. I enjoy the flshlight theme of CPF, and I am much more informed, and enlightned for having founding it. Having said that the one thing that we all have in common is lights. I feel the Cafe should be a jumping off place from that. People of like interest, discussing, debating, and conversing about other topics.
It has been said that "here you won't change any ones mind". To that I can only reply that if you aren't willing to open your mind, and accept new ideas, then you can't be fair. I have had my mind changed about a few things. Only because the influx of information from people that I share a common interest with, has given me food for thought.
I am opionated, out spoken, and often not politically correct. I am not rude, mean or hateful. I don't drag threads into the mud just because I don't agree with what is being posted. And I would think that as long as people refrain from name calling, slander, and trolling, that the closing of a thread can be more detrimental than the topic of the thread.

By the way... Thanks to all who provide CPF, and work at giving us a place of decency in a world of confusion.
 

IlluminatingBikr

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Messages
2,320
Freedom of speech, and to express what's on your mind, even if it isn't about flashlights. I think we are a much closer and tighter community because of this section. It gives us chances to share about ourselves, rather than our mods or lights.
 

pedalinbob

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 7, 2002
Messages
2,281
Location
Michigan
the Cafe to me is a place where i can ask such mundane questions like "how can i best fix my porch"...and people respond with great advice!

i know tha political stuff riles people up, but overall it is just in fun.

i am very thankful for the Cafe.

Bob
 

Greta

Flashaholic
Joined
Apr 8, 2002
Messages
15,999
Location
Arizona
[ QUOTE ]
Kitchener said:
[ QUOTE ]
tylerdurden said:
Moderator action should be rare, and I think it is, though it's slowly becoming less rare, which is an "interesting" development.

[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts, as well. Sometimes it's not entirely clear what the moderator is afraid of.

[/ QUOTE ]

The moderators aren't AFRAID of anything... we're just sick and tired of supposed adults acting like children with their mud-slinging and name calling and inability to discuss certain topics in a mature and rational manner.

I agree that "moderator action" has indeed become less rare as the CPF community continues to grow. I attribute that to the members who haven't been around long enough to realize that CPF is not like the other bulletin boards that they have visited where there is little to no moderation and the members are allowed to be disrespectful of each other and in general, run wild. It seems that these same members can't be bothered with even checking out what the CPF policies are and/or they feel they don't have to follow those policies and/or they find it necessary to constantly challenge the policies and/or see how far they can push them. In any case, it's not acceptable here on CPF.

Once upon a time, NONE of these "controversial" topics were moderated and the threads ran their course and eventually died out like so many other topics here in the Cafe. That is because they were discussed in a mature manner without all of the rhetoric and general childish bullshit that seems to be prevalent now. It is to be expected that as the community grows, so will the diversity of opinions. However, this is still no excuse for boorish behavior.

Perhaps our failing is in assuming that all members know how to comport themselves in a civilized and cultivated manner. When we get gobsmacked with the reality that our assumption is incorrect, we have no choice but to force the matter through moderation. Yes, we have no choice. The alternative is to let the CPF community deteriorate to the point where it is indistinguishable from all of those other boards out there that most of you came to CPF to get away from. There is a time and place for everything. CPF is not the time or place for these types of discussions and behavior. That is something that will never change as long as I am around.

Some of you expect CPF to be your "one-stop" for anything and everything that you want to do on the world wide web. You expect CPF to cater to all of your "needs" and adjust itself to accommodate you. Do you expect that of your job? Do you expect that when you go to someone's home? Do you expect it when you walk into church? I doubt you do. So why do you expect it here? No matter where you go throughout your day and in your life, there will always be "rules" that you must follow. It is up to you to adjust yourself to these rules. It is no different here on CPF.

The moderators and administrators of CPF have been around for awhile. They have been chosen for their positions on CPF because of their experience here and the ability that they've shown to be fair and rational in matters that the administration has determined to need moderation. They have seen the growth and yes, deterioration of CPF. THEY have been forced to adjust. Some of you feel that they just arbitrarily go around censoring, censuring and in general imposing their own personal will on you. You couldn't be farther from the truth. They act on behalf of the administration of CPF. I realize that some of you don't agree with the administration on some of these issues. The only response I can give to that is... too bad. When dealing with such a large and diverse group of individuals, it is to be expected. The moderators and administrators of CPF have thick skin... they can handle the criticism from what amounts to the minority.

So what does The Café mean to me? Exactly what it was intended to mean when it was created... a place to come within the community in order to relax a bit and discuss the issues of the day, share personal experiences, seek information, laugh, cry, commiserate and in general get to know the other members of the community. The keyword in all of that is "RELAX". If I want controversy, I have several other sites bookmarked and I go there.

In closing, I will refer you all once more to a thread I posted a few days ago in the Announcement Forum... ALL MEMBERS ~ MUST READ!! I'm sure there are still some of you who haven't bothered to read it. You are the ones who have made it necessary for us to increase moderation due to your lack of respect for the community. You are the ones who, to be blunt, are not welcome here.
 

Darkcobra

Enlightened
Joined
Mar 12, 2003
Messages
389
Location
Pittsburg, California
[ QUOTE ]
pedalinbob said:
the Cafe to me is a place where i can ask such mundane questions like "how can i best fix my porch"...and people respond with great advice!

i know tha political stuff riles people up, but overall it is just in fun.

i am very thankful for the Cafe.

Bob

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, great way to ask a question that's need answering or at least information to go on. I can post a question in here and get some really good leads within a few minutes. That and I usually won't be humiliated with some of the replies(like other boards). CPF has a mature crowd who are respectful of one another. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif
 

Kitchener

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Apr 4, 2004
Messages
146
Location
Wilmington, DE
[ QUOTE ]
Sasha said:
[ QUOTE ]
Kitchener said:
[ QUOTE ]
tylerdurden said:
Moderator action should be rare, and I think it is, though it's slowly becoming less rare, which is an "interesting" development.

[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts, as well. Sometimes it's not entirely clear what the moderator is afraid of.

[/ QUOTE ]

... we're just sick and tired of supposed adults acting like children with their mud-slinging and name calling and inability to discuss certain topics in a mature and rational manner.


[/ QUOTE ]

I can't think of any thread I've participated in where this has been the case, or even any thread I've read recently.

I count 5,500 aggregate posts by members in this thread who've mentioned a concern with pro-active moderation, which conflicts with your comment, "I agree that 'moderator action' has indeed become less rare as the CPF community continues to grow. I attribute that to the members who haven't been around long enough to realize that CPF is not like the other bulletin boards that they have visited where there is little to no moderation and the members are allowed to be disrespectful of each other and in general, run wild."

Finally, in keeping with my initial comment in this post that I can't think of any thread I've participated in where "mud-slinging and name calling and inability to discuss certain topics in a mature and rational manner" has been the case, and as I _have_ read the ALL MEMBERS... announcement, I find, "You are the ones who have made it necessary for us to increase moderation due to your lack of respect for the community. You are the ones who, to be blunt, are not welcome here," your concluding remark, insulting.

No matter. I respect and appreciate the effort it requires to keep the board running as well as it does, and have found the information I've gotten very useful -- it certainly has stoked my enthusiasm for this hobby. Most thriving boards I participate in have a Cafe-like forum, as we all seem to feel within that fancy that we have some common interests, and thus find a common springboard to discuss other topics (albeit in a constructive, non-predatory manner).
 
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