OnStar Available On Non-GM Vehicles

I've wanted OnStar for a while but didn't like any of the GM vehicles that it came on. Tonight I went to their website and, lo and behold, it's available on all VW models, most Audi models and all of the Subaru Outback models. I'm stoked since I wanted either a Passat wagon or another Outback (they're coming out with a totally new 2005 model).

Anybody have OnStar and can give me feedback?

We have it in our Saab but we're not paying for the service /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

Seems kind of expensive. $16/month for the cheapest plan that more or less only provides airbag deployment and theft tracking. I do play with it from time to time though and the voice recognition for the phone portion seems good, but again expensive, especially considering the Saab has provisions to easily add a completely integrated phone. Just need to add a connector for your phone, mic is already built in and the radio is already programmed to work with the mobile phone kit. Surprisingly, the newer Ford Taurusses can do the same thing! (And many other Ford cars I would guess)

OnStar is available on Lexus and Acura vehicles too IIRC. Lexus, however, doesn't officially use the OnStar name.

Here's an interesting, police related note: a few times a month, we get a call from Onstar (thru. dispatch from the Onstar dispatch) because someone in the Onstar equipped car/truck hit the "emergency button." So far, I haven't been able to locate any of these vehicles, and Onstar can never tell where the car is, only a rough guess w/in so many miles. Eventually, Onstar gives up and we cease looking for the car.

May or may not be representative of the Onstar systema s a whole. I'm just speaking from personal experience.

--dan

One of the car mags (I forgot which one) mentioned that they were abusing a test car and spun around a couple of times and the OnStar operator called them to see if everything was OK /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

Here's a link to all of the cars available.

OnStar seems neat and futuristic in a sense, but I can't imagine why anyone would really need it or want to pay for it (over and over every month). Call me a cheapskate, but if you consider the life of a car to be 10 years and you are paying "only" $16 per month for the service, you just spent almost two grand more on the car over its life.

I see that as being a great deal for GM, but not so good for me. I have a cell phone and that is enough security in my opinion.

Now maybe if this were a freebee thrown in by the manufacturer as a selling point for the vehicle, that would be nice, but I wouldn't buy it.

Of course you may have more disposable income than I do, so I hope you get this and enjoy it if you want it.

I think the telematic services should cost--but just like a 911 call always has to be free, I think airbag deployment notification and the "Emergency Button" should always be free. Theft tracking should be able to be activated after-the-fact for $100 or something (IE You register with them and then they call you and say 'We are tracking your Saab, would you like to pay us $100 to continue tracking?" of course you'd say YES!

But that would be less money for them.

im going to install onstar on my bike /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

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raggie33 said:
im going to install onstar on my bike /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

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Then it becomes OnSpoke /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I've debated with myself about making this post. Moderators, this in not intended to be political.
I don't think I want something in my car that has a satellite or cell phone uplink that tells big brother where my car is and how fast it's going at anytime. Note Marty Weiner's post #621808. It sure looks like another intrusion.
Just my $.02
EDIT Also note the radio commercials where the operator can unlock your doors by remote control. If they can do that, they can also turn off your engine. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

Unclefester: Interesting point. I wonder just how much manipulation of the auto Onstar could do? I bet it can do much more than GM says it can.

--dan

I've heard stories that rental car agencies monitor speeds and actually charge the renter large fines for exceeding the speed limit.

I have it on good authority that Onstar can disable the engine on some models and more in the future, whether you pay for it or not. I know they can listen in on the car without you doing anything also, again even if you never subscribe. Not that I care either way, if they are that bored have at it.

I would think the insurance companies should get in on the car-tracking end of it. Maybe even if they pay 1/2 for the tracking feature it would save them lots of $ if they could find and arrest the thieves. Although I am sure that thieves will figure out how to disable it rather quickly, even though it has an internal battery capable of powering it for a month without the main battery, originally meant to power the unit even after a crash that totally removes the battery or all the wiring in the front end.

Yep, OnStar has already been used to eavesdrop (basically, call into the car without "ringing", turn on the microphone and patch it to the FBI) on suspected criminals a few years ago--using a warrant.

In the OnStar case, the Nine District Court of Appeals specifically said that this was an illegal use of the system, not because of privacy--but because if there was an emergency the tones the system sent in the audio line (emergency button press, airbag deployment, etc.) would be missed by the OnStar service center (because they are not listening) and the FBI would be bothered with helping as they probably "have better things to do" plus any emergency communications would be beyond the scope of the warrant and the FBI should not listen...

Ninth Circuit Places Limits on Use of GPS Systems in Vehicles for Government Surveillance Purposes

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The feature at issue in yesterday's ruling, the judge went on to say, allows the operator to open a cellular connection to a vehicle and listen to oral communications within the car. When activated at the owner's request, this feature enables the operator to communicate with emergency personnel, or to overhear the thieves if the car has been stolen.

But the same technology permits eavesdropping, the judge noted, and has thus caught the interest of the FBI, leading to yesterday's review of a series of orders by U.S. District Judge Lloyd D. George of the District of Nevada. George approved a series of four 30-day "roving" wiretap orders requiring the system operator to assist in the investigation by permitting the FBI to monitor conversations within the vehicle.
...
The appellate jurist explained:

"In this case, FBI surveillance completely disabled the monitored car's System. The only function that worked in some form was the emergency button or automatic emergency response signal. These emergency features, however, were
severely hampered by the surveillance: Pressing the emergency button and activation of the car's airbags, instead of automatically contacting the Company, would simply emit a tone over the already open phone line. No one at the Company was likely to be monitoring the call at such a time, as the call was transferred to the FBI once received."

Since the FBI is prohibited by Title III from listening in on conversations unrelated to its investigation, Berzon elaborated, an emergency call would likely have gone unheeded. Besides, she wrote, "the FBI, however well-intentioned, is not in the business of providing emergency road services, and might well have better things to do when listening in than respond with such services to the electronic signal sent over the line."

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Another article questioned if this "feature" could be activated by others such as foreign agents, organized crime, etc....

But since, I don't believe, there are open specifications for this system--we cannot know one way or the other.

-Bill

I know a bit about OnStar, but not a whole lot.

It's a Motorola GPS unit mated to a 2 or 3 watt Morotola analog phone. Verison provides the cell service and there are 2 call centers, both in Michigan. Data is transmitted using, get this, a 1200 baud modem.

Functions of the system depend on the vehicle. For example, not all OnStar equipped vehicles can do remote unlocking or remote diagnostics.

The OnStar box is easy easy easy to disable in some cars. It's just hanging from the trunk in my Saab, all the wiring is in the open. I'd just have to unplug 1 harness to more or less render the system useless--it wouldn't be linked to the car any more, or power, or it's antenna.

I figure I'm pretty safe without the tracking package. Professional theives don't steal Saabs (Even then they're tough to steal without a flatbed, but lets not get into that here) and joy-riders will never get past the security systems that are in place.

But if it does make you feel any better, a professional car thief (The guy had slipped by the cops by 'that much' a dozen times) was caught when he picked up a H2 (Ugh) and thought that popping the OnStar buttons out of the dash would disable the system ;-)

YOur are really constrained in what you can use. You are forced into Analog cell phone sytems because of coverage issues. The broadest coverage is analog. GSM has explicit range limits (35km), regardless of power output, and CDMA coverage is subject to some interesting reliability issues. If you can place a call on a GSM or AMPS/D-AMPS platform, and you are fixed, you are guaranteed that short of the system crashing, you can keep the call.The required infrastructure (both land and wireless side) to support the call was allocated to the call when the call was initiated.
In a CDMA envirornment, it is possible to lose active calls without moving a millimeter, because nothing is actually allocated to you on the wireless side.

1200 baud is super attractive because it is cheap, you don't think it is common? I have news for you, tens of millions of them are used Sold in the USA every year. Every telephone that supports caller-id has one! The data for caller ID is sent in Bell 201 (1200 baud) format between the first and second ring. Bell 201 modem on a chip is probably less than $2. The available bandwidth on an analog cell phone can be quite limited, so you need to pick a robust modulation scheme that will work with terrible link margins and fairly serious harmonic distortion.

When you look at the actual data requirements, 1200 baud is more than adequate, it is cheap, and it is robust.

End of story....

I didn't say there was anything wrong with 1200 Baud, just interesting that something billed as so high tech turns out to be GPS, an analog cell phone (Old tech) and a 1200 baud modem (old tech).

Nothing wrong with mashing old tech together into something new and unique though, not at all, may I introduce you to Airport Express?

I think mattheww50 did a good job explaining why it uses the technologys that it uses.
how much data bandwidth do you think onstar needs to detect a deployed airbag-read gps info or unlock a door.
to me less is better.
too much bandwidth could give them real time digital video or something.
big brother has already used it to listen in.

So didn't I hear that all analog cell phones were to be phased out in 2006 and completly by 2010? Are they going to still maintain them for Onstar or is Onstar going to buy them all up or did they dive up the move to digital?