KL4 or MN03 ?
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Before I start I would like to tell all here that I don't own a KL4 but I have played around with my friend's KL4. I personally own a KL5 which I preferred over the KL4. I do own an E2e with MN03 though.
I love the KL4 for it's flood beam no doubt, but I prefer the MN03 as a general use light. My reason?
1) KL4 though bright is not a light you would hold in your hands for long as it heats up and gets extremely hot and uncomfortable to hold after about 5 to 10 mins. To me, it doesn't make sense to use an LED light as a general use light and still have to face the heat problem like any incandescents. Even an MN03 is not so hot after 15 mins.
2) KL4 is bright but as compared to KL5 it lacks throw. I know I am being unfair by comparing an apple to an orange but what I am saying is that the MN03 has a decent amount of throw and flood too for illuminating a place as compared to KL4.
3) KL4's whitish beam seems cool but after a while one tend to realize that it is all about it. KL4 can never illuminate an item with tack sharp details as well as an incandescent because it lacks the red spectrum. KL5 does a better job because of it's tighter beam but still loose out to any true incandescent.
4) At an hour run time on maximum power on the E2O body, I would rather be using a lower power KL1 for a 4 hours max runtime. Since I use my lights more for walking purposes I don't mind a slightly lower power output.
Don't get me wrong guys, I like the KL4 for what it is but if I were to choose I would rather save up the money and go with an incandescent or KL1 which serves my purpose better and maybe channel the money to a U2.
I love the KL4 for it's flood beam no doubt, but I prefer the MN03 as a general use light. My reason?
1) KL4 though bright is not a light you would hold in your hands for long as it heats up and gets extremely hot and uncomfortable to hold after about 5 to 10 mins. To me, it doesn't make sense to use an LED light as a general use light and still have to face the heat problem like any incandescents. Even an MN03 is not so hot after 15 mins.
2) KL4 is bright but as compared to KL5 it lacks throw. I know I am being unfair by comparing an apple to an orange but what I am saying is that the MN03 has a decent amount of throw and flood too for illuminating a place as compared to KL4.
3) KL4's whitish beam seems cool but after a while one tend to realize that it is all about it. KL4 can never illuminate an item with tack sharp details as well as an incandescent because it lacks the red spectrum. KL5 does a better job because of it's tighter beam but still loose out to any true incandescent.
4) At an hour run time on maximum power on the E2O body, I would rather be using a lower power KL1 for a 4 hours max runtime. Since I use my lights more for walking purposes I don't mind a slightly lower power output.
Don't get me wrong guys, I like the KL4 for what it is but if I were to choose I would rather save up the money and go with an incandescent or KL1 which serves my purpose better and maybe channel the money to a U2.
js
Flashlight Enthusiast
I'm in pjandyho's camp. I've had spent a lot of time EDCing LED lights, and in my experience a good incandescent puts out much more useful and penetrating light. I find the light from even the best LED's to be somewhat ghostly and insubstantial and inadequate for demanding viewing conditions.
The beam from the MN03 in an E series reflector is one of the better incan beams I have had the pleasure to view. The CCT/whiteness is not as good as some, but it's still good, and the beam has almost no artifacts or rings. Very pleasing. And it's a LOT of light. Also, I find it no problem to run continuously. Better than trying to use my Fire~Fly continuously, which gets uncomfortably hot; too hot, really.
Yes, if you drop it, you may break the filament, but I have not yet ever done that with one of my SureFires or TigerLights or TL mods. I have found the SureFire xenon lamps to be pretty drop resistant, as far as incans go.
So there it is. Another opinion. Take it or leave it.
The beam from the MN03 in an E series reflector is one of the better incan beams I have had the pleasure to view. The CCT/whiteness is not as good as some, but it's still good, and the beam has almost no artifacts or rings. Very pleasing. And it's a LOT of light. Also, I find it no problem to run continuously. Better than trying to use my Fire~Fly continuously, which gets uncomfortably hot; too hot, really.
Yes, if you drop it, you may break the filament, but I have not yet ever done that with one of my SureFires or TigerLights or TL mods. I have found the SureFire xenon lamps to be pretty drop resistant, as far as incans go.
So there it is. Another opinion. Take it or leave it.
GarageBoy
Flashlight Enthusiast
L4. The MN03 isn't my choice for throw.
Minjin
Flashlight Enthusiast
Lets throw in one more option. A PR head with 5w on a DownBoy. I'm guessing that runtime would be better due to a better circuit (assuming same driven current). It would have better throw. And it would probably handle heat better. Now where does that option sit with you guys? I think this is important because its about the same cost as KL4.
Mark
Mark
IlluminatingBikr
Flashlight Enthusiast
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2003
- Messages
- 2,320
I have both the incandescent head (MN03) and KL4 for my L4/E2e body. I have used the incandescent head once, just to make sure it works. The L4 is my EDC. I would definitely choose the KL4.
No offense to anyone - but incandescents should just die already.
The benefits of the LED far outweigh the minimal drawbacks. the lack of throw can be easily remedied with more power/ larger reflectors. I think that designers of LED lights have had small form factor in mind from the beginning - and thus the physical inability to throw.
How many bulbs have you replaced in your lifetime? How many LEDS. which would you choose in an emergency situation?
The benefits of the LED far outweigh the minimal drawbacks. the lack of throw can be easily remedied with more power/ larger reflectors. I think that designers of LED lights have had small form factor in mind from the beginning - and thus the physical inability to throw.
How many bulbs have you replaced in your lifetime? How many LEDS. which would you choose in an emergency situation?
In response to LEDSmith, as great as I think the KL4 and LEDs are, i still think there's a place for incans. Even with a large reflector like a Mag, in order to throw as far as an incan, the beam of the LED must be VERY tight. Also, ever use an LED outside when it's dark AND raining? I have for extrications and everything like the wet pavement and grass or trees seem to absorb the white/blue light of the LED, not so with incans.
Minjin
Flashlight Enthusiast
A bit offtopic, but...
MTFD17, have you ever considered a red-orange/amber luxeon or something around that shade? In theory, that would be the perfect rain light. You could even run it direct drive in a Mag2D.
Mark
MTFD17, have you ever considered a red-orange/amber luxeon or something around that shade? In theory, that would be the perfect rain light. You could even run it direct drive in a Mag2D.
Mark
Well it doesn't rain in Arizona - so I guess that I don't have that problem.
Seriously, I am an LED Purist - I am on the quest to replace all incandescents in my life - someday this may be a reality. Something about the crisp white light is energizing.
When you die, you are drawn to a bright white light. not a yellow light with a ton of beam artifacts.
Incandescent technology is largely maxed out, but LED's have just begun - thus the popularity of this forum.
Just trying to stir it up a little bit.
Seriously, I am an LED Purist - I am on the quest to replace all incandescents in my life - someday this may be a reality. Something about the crisp white light is energizing.
When you die, you are drawn to a bright white light. not a yellow light with a ton of beam artifacts.
Incandescent technology is largely maxed out, but LED's have just begun - thus the popularity of this forum.
Just trying to stir it up a little bit.
js
Flashlight Enthusiast
[ QUOTE ]
LEDSmith said:
No offense to anyone - but incandescents should just die already.
The benefits of the LED far outweigh the minimal drawbacks. the lack of throw can be easily remedied with more power/ larger reflectors. I think that designers of LED lights have had small form factor in mind from the beginning - and thus the physical inability to throw.
How many bulbs have you replaced in your lifetime? How many LEDS. which would you choose in an emergency situation?
Well it doesn't rain in Arizona - so I guess that I don't have that problem.
Seriously, I am an LED Purist - I am on the quest to replace all incandescents in my life - someday this may be a reality. Something about the crisp white light is energizing.
When you die, you are drawn to a bright white light. not a yellow light with a ton of beam artifacts.
Incandescent technology is largely maxed out, but LED's have just begun - thus the popularity of this forum.
Just trying to stir it up a little bit.
[/ QUOTE ]
Just trying to stir things up a bit, hm? "No offense or anything, but incandescents should just die already?" Isn't this along the same lines as "No offense, pal, but you're an idiot?"
You wanted to stir things up: you stirred me up. You didn't want to offend anyone? Too late.
Seriously, I can respect your right to be an LED purist, and I can understand why you love LED's and that nice white, artifact free light.
Is it too much to ask for some reciprocating respect for incandescents? Tell me, how on earth do you know that incandescent technology is "maxed out". What qualifies you to say that? Heck, people were saying that before halogen filled tungsten filament lamps came along, and how very wrong they were.
I didn't just spend the last six months working my a$$ off on incandescent upgrades to the TigerLight to have someone whose looking to rattle people's cages make some stupid flip comment about how incans should just die. No they SHOULDN'T; and for your information THEY WON'T anytime soon.
When I have some time, I think I'm going to pull together a more or less definitive thread on why incandescent lighting is NOT dying, and what its strengths are and what critical applications choose it as the best form of lighting for that situation.
I interviewed for an Electrical Engineering job at Schott-Fostec LLC in Auburn NY back in 2001 and I was talking with their lead engineer about lighting and LED's and tungsten filament halogen lamps, and he just about scoffed at the thought of using LED's instead of an incan lamp in a box with fiber optic cabling (to get a "cool" beam with little or no IR content) even though that would obviously be a lot less work.
LEDSmith, stop rattling my cage. Please.
Also, what forum do you think we're in here? You think all of CPF is for LED lighting?
LEDSmith said:
No offense to anyone - but incandescents should just die already.
The benefits of the LED far outweigh the minimal drawbacks. the lack of throw can be easily remedied with more power/ larger reflectors. I think that designers of LED lights have had small form factor in mind from the beginning - and thus the physical inability to throw.
How many bulbs have you replaced in your lifetime? How many LEDS. which would you choose in an emergency situation?
Well it doesn't rain in Arizona - so I guess that I don't have that problem.
Seriously, I am an LED Purist - I am on the quest to replace all incandescents in my life - someday this may be a reality. Something about the crisp white light is energizing.
When you die, you are drawn to a bright white light. not a yellow light with a ton of beam artifacts.
Incandescent technology is largely maxed out, but LED's have just begun - thus the popularity of this forum.
Just trying to stir it up a little bit.
[/ QUOTE ]
Just trying to stir things up a bit, hm? "No offense or anything, but incandescents should just die already?" Isn't this along the same lines as "No offense, pal, but you're an idiot?"
You wanted to stir things up: you stirred me up. You didn't want to offend anyone? Too late.
Seriously, I can respect your right to be an LED purist, and I can understand why you love LED's and that nice white, artifact free light.
Is it too much to ask for some reciprocating respect for incandescents? Tell me, how on earth do you know that incandescent technology is "maxed out". What qualifies you to say that? Heck, people were saying that before halogen filled tungsten filament lamps came along, and how very wrong they were.
I didn't just spend the last six months working my a$$ off on incandescent upgrades to the TigerLight to have someone whose looking to rattle people's cages make some stupid flip comment about how incans should just die. No they SHOULDN'T; and for your information THEY WON'T anytime soon.
When I have some time, I think I'm going to pull together a more or less definitive thread on why incandescent lighting is NOT dying, and what its strengths are and what critical applications choose it as the best form of lighting for that situation.
I interviewed for an Electrical Engineering job at Schott-Fostec LLC in Auburn NY back in 2001 and I was talking with their lead engineer about lighting and LED's and tungsten filament halogen lamps, and he just about scoffed at the thought of using LED's instead of an incan lamp in a box with fiber optic cabling (to get a "cool" beam with little or no IR content) even though that would obviously be a lot less work.
LEDSmith, stop rattling my cage. Please.
Also, what forum do you think we're in here? You think all of CPF is for LED lighting?
I am pretty much amazed by your plain ignorance LEDsmith. If you want to be a purist then go ahead and be one for all I care. LED is no doubt advancing in terms of technology but if you really think that incandescent can't do the job an LED can do and even surpass it then I think you are the frog living within the well. Your world is just that round circular vent where you look out from.
As a pure flashaholic I venture not only into LEDs but incandescents as well. Both has a certain niche in their characteristics and having both in use together are very much like a chef with the belt of knives around the waist.
Stop cutting up watermelons with a pairing knife!
As a pure flashaholic I venture not only into LEDs but incandescents as well. Both has a certain niche in their characteristics and having both in use together are very much like a chef with the belt of knives around the waist.
Stop cutting up watermelons with a pairing knife!
js
Flashlight Enthusiast
[ QUOTE ]
LEDSmith said:
Woa!!!, looks like I touched a nerve here.
Please accept my appologies if I ruined someones day.
These are my opinions. The lightbulb, no doubt - deserves respect. don't hate me because I dislike the yellow beam.
[/ QUOTE ]
Appology accepted! Sorry I overreacted. But keep in mind--and this is comming from a hot-wire guy--that I dislike the yellow beam, too.
Perhaps you have never experienced an over-driven xenon filled high-output tungsten filament lamp? One with a CCT of over 3,500? If you haven't, trust me when I tell you that there is NOTHING YELLOW about it! When you can hold 1,000 lumens in an 8" flashlight, that's nothing to sneeze at. LED's are way, way cool. No doubt. But I wouldn't ever give up my Tiger85, no matter how many times I'm told that incan's are dead and dying. HA! Not my incans.
So back OT: the beam from the MN03 in an E2e is almost perfect. In fact, other than a CCT which is lower than, say, an M6, I can't find a single thing to fault. It is one of the most beautiful and useful beams I have ever had the pleasure of experiencing. It's even better, in my opinion, than any LED beam I have seen. High Dome Luxeons always have the square die thing going on, and perhaps a bit of darkness where the lead wires attach to the LED/hotspot. And Low Domes are even worse in my experience.
Anyway, I can COMPLETELY understand why someone would be pro-LED and trying to replace all his or her incans with LED's. My own brother is this way.
Suffice it to say that I am of a different, if not opposite, persuasion. I actually JUST switched to an incan EDC (E2e w/MN03) because I prefer the good incan beam to LED beams. But that's just me. De gustibus non disputandum est. (hehe, I acutally remember that from my HS latin class /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif = personal taste is not disputable).
LEDSmith said:
Woa!!!, looks like I touched a nerve here.
Please accept my appologies if I ruined someones day.
These are my opinions. The lightbulb, no doubt - deserves respect. don't hate me because I dislike the yellow beam.
[/ QUOTE ]
Appology accepted! Sorry I overreacted. But keep in mind--and this is comming from a hot-wire guy--that I dislike the yellow beam, too.
Perhaps you have never experienced an over-driven xenon filled high-output tungsten filament lamp? One with a CCT of over 3,500? If you haven't, trust me when I tell you that there is NOTHING YELLOW about it! When you can hold 1,000 lumens in an 8" flashlight, that's nothing to sneeze at. LED's are way, way cool. No doubt. But I wouldn't ever give up my Tiger85, no matter how many times I'm told that incan's are dead and dying. HA! Not my incans.
So back OT: the beam from the MN03 in an E2e is almost perfect. In fact, other than a CCT which is lower than, say, an M6, I can't find a single thing to fault. It is one of the most beautiful and useful beams I have ever had the pleasure of experiencing. It's even better, in my opinion, than any LED beam I have seen. High Dome Luxeons always have the square die thing going on, and perhaps a bit of darkness where the lead wires attach to the LED/hotspot. And Low Domes are even worse in my experience.
Anyway, I can COMPLETELY understand why someone would be pro-LED and trying to replace all his or her incans with LED's. My own brother is this way.
Suffice it to say that I am of a different, if not opposite, persuasion. I actually JUST switched to an incan EDC (E2e w/MN03) because I prefer the good incan beam to LED beams. But that's just me. De gustibus non disputandum est. (hehe, I acutally remember that from my HS latin class /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif = personal taste is not disputable).
