RANT!!!!!!

You know,it's so unbelievable that some people here take things soooooo personally,when NOTHING was intended by a certain post.You can not give an opinion about something without someone wanting to jump down your throat!Even worse,most time people don't even read the WHOLE post.They only read what they want.I am smart enough to know that when reading a post,sometimes it's hard to tell exactly what emotions,if any,a person is trying to project to the reader.So I give the person the benefit of a doubt.Sometimes a person is mearly giving an opinion.Nothing more,nothing less.Some of us need to quit "reading" things into a post.As much as I like flashlights,I NEVER have and NEVER will get upset over something someone has to say about a light! A person,maybe,a flashlight,NO! Just relax people! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

was that directed at me?

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jook said:
was that directed at me?

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LOL /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nana.gif

We're here to listen. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sssh.gif And I'm glad you have somplace to get this off your chest.

(I have been reading the threads you indirectly reference.)

I just go by this simple rule:

All flashlights suck (except mine)

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wholeflaffer said:
We're here to listen. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sssh.gif And I'm glad you have somplace to get this off your chest.

(I have been reading the threads you indirectly reference.)

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I'm not JUST talking about the FFII post.That's just the "straw that broke the camels back" that's all.I have read other posts on CPF where people make a "mountain out of a mole hill".All I'm saying is some people need to stop taking things so personally. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/whoopin.gif

true, true, dude.

daloosh

Shoot pal some of us are to dang dumb to know some just flat don't care. If you think there is a problem send a PM if that don't work well then git over it. I would dare to suggest that if you are so missunderstood (like me most times) refrain from starting threads, just stick to jumping in on one to make folks mad. good luck have fun.
Topper /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

No, it was directed at me.

Mark

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Minjin said:
No, it was directed at me.

Mark

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No,it was directed at several people on that post.But also posts that have nothing to do with me.Check out jeers to *speck.What I started as observation turned into a which hunt.I was talking about the light itself and all of a sudden I;m getting posts about the guy doing this or that.I was just saying an expensive mod especially when hand made should not leave the creator's hand until it's perfect.IF I have a good reputation then I do what it takes to up hold that reputation.I have no ill will to anyone.I don't even really know anyone that well.That's why I felt attacked.As a matter of fact it wasn't like I said,"the FFII is the biggest piece of junk ever made." Nothing like that was ever said!

You just brought up something that was a sensitive subject for others who have been waiting for quite a very long time.

coachbigdog,

Yeah. This sort of thing is inevitable with email and BB forums. No way to get your TONE across, and no way to ensure that your readers actually read ALL of what you write. It's endemic, I'm afraid.

But while I think you have a valid point here, and I do not mean to contradict it, the best thing EVERYONE can do is to not over-react to over-reactions. Know what I mean? So someone gets ruffled over something you said. No big deal. There will be times when you might get ruffled over something too.

My natural temperment is hot-headed and argumentative, unfortunately. Thus, I try to curb this and practice restraint. This is actually easier in an email/PM/posting situation due to the fact that the mouth can outrun the brain a bit faster than the fingers can.

It still happens though. Plus you never know what went on before with a person. As you point out, something can be the straw that breaks the camels back.

Just an hour ago, I got a bit heated over yet another "incandescents should just die already" comment in the General Light Discussion forum. I've heard just about enough of those to last me for the rest of my life.

But let's keep it all in perspective: as on-line communities go, on the whole CPF is outstandingly civil and intelligent and restrained. It's a great community, and we should just try hard to bear with one another. It's worth it even in the most anoying of times. And most of the time, it is a sheer pleasure to be here.

Coach, a suggestion, because js is right. It's tough to get the tone in a printed message. To avoid this type of thing, I try to use the Graemlins to adequately convey tone. While not foolproof, I have had practically no misunderstanding because of it. I don't sprinkle them liberally through every message like some folks like to, but they are useful.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I have NO PROBLEMS with people disagreeing with me.An opinion is just that,an OPINION.I do however have a problem with people that make posts that have NOTHING to do with what you were talking about.Here's a real world example I'm sure everyone has faced.Your having a discussion about something,but if you look in the person's eyes you can tell that you are having a oneway conversation.The reason is,instead of the person LISTENING and at least argueing over what you just said,they are already thinking of what they are going to say as soon as you finish your sentence.My mother is the MASTER at this.We will be talking about something and as soon as I finish she has a response,but usually it has very little to do with what I just said.I'll say,"Mom,what did I just get thru saying?" Usually she can't tell me,BECAUSE SHE WASN'T LISTENING! What people do on this site is the equivalent to that.They just see part of a post and see that maybe your talking negatively about something.They immediately post a response to JUST the portion they read.Had they read the ENTIRE post,they probably would have said something different.

OK. Now I'm angry. What's your freakin' problem anyway? Why'd you have to go and say bad things about mothers?

You shouldn't disrespect moms, you know! It's dispicable and I for one won't stand for it. What do you know about my mother? NOTHING! THAT'S RIGHT! So keep your negative comments about moms to yourself.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Something like that?

Yeah. It's anoying. I agree. But it's always going to happen now and again. Besides it saves a lot of time not to read the ENTIRE post. I mean, we're talking a couple paragraphs here! Who has that kind of time? Plus it's easier to respond to the straw man you have put in place of the real person. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twakfl.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin07.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rant.gif

"I was just saying an expensive mod especially when hand made should not leave the creator's hand until it's perfect.

Now I have read this entire thread and I think I can follow at some level and I do concurr with the shortcomings of this type of two dimensional comuncation. I have been misunderstood as well as misunderstood others. Some of us can type, spell and articulate well and concisely and others are less able to do so.

If I were to take your quoted statement above at face value and additionally assume that this is a common and shared opinnion, I would be very disheartened as this signals to me that it is time for me to wrap up my flashlight projects, best I can, and move on with my life. There is no way in the world I could approach perfection, by any significant standard!

Now I believe I am guilty here of just what your "rant" is about but it is because I read one statement that if *I* let it go un challenged, I would feel that as a reader and participant on CPF, I had accepted or agreed to its content.

Now, none of us can address all that we read with a response and it is only when we have the time, inclination or passion due to a button being pressed that we may choose to respond. In doing so, we may not address the entire thread or post or "flavor" of the topic flow. This does not necessarily imply that we have been inattentive to the balance of the topic. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

Nothing is perfect,I know.What I meant was I was taught that if you do something,do it to the best of your ability.If I were to sell something,I would make sure that at least I THOUGHT it was perfect.However,if I send a product out and many of them have the exact same flaw,then I probably didn't check to see if at least I THOUGHT they were perfect.In the case of a limited mod of a couple hundred pieces,I think it would be worth my time and reputation to check them.

BTW,again what I'm talking about is taking a post that is implied towards something,not someone,and then taking and making it personal.Take for instance the FFII post.For someone to say I have an "AGENDA".That's ridiculous.That's not reading the post.The post was really about how some have a double standard.For what ever reason,people acceptted the short comings of the FFII,but were intolerant of the xm2.I do not know Wayne or "Dspeck".So the post had less to do with the actual lights and more about the "double" standard.

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coachbigdog said:
BTW,again what I'm talking about is taking a post that is implied towards something,not someone,and then taking and making it personal.Take for instance the FFII post.For someone to say I have an "AGENDA".That's ridiculous.That's not reading the post.The post was really about how some have a double standard.For what ever reason,people acceptted the short comings of the FFII,but were intolerant of the xm2.I do not know Wayne or "Dspeck".So the post had less to do with the actual lights and more about the "double" standard.

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This "double standard" critique is only valid if you can show that specific INDIVIDUALS did this; a group as a whole has not just a double standard, but an n-fold standard, with n=number of people in the group.

Also, McGizmo--as usual--said it very well above, especially the part about people responding to what engages them and that this doesn't mean they were ignorant of the rest of the post.

And I will have to STRONGLY agree with him about this perfection criterion. Until you actually start making custom stuff up for people, you will have little appreciation for the almost limitless ways in which stuff can go wrong. I know how much work is involved in a project like the FF and I can assure you that it is HIGHLY generous of DSpeck to do it at all. Problems and imperfections simply come with the custom-made territory. Could DSpeck theoretically have done better? I'm sure. Would YOU have done any better? Don't be too sure.

But all that said, I do understand your point and your frustrations with the FF II.

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js said:
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coachbigdog said:
BTW,again what I'm talking about is taking a post that is implied towards something,not someone,and then taking and making it personal.Take for instance the FFII post.For someone to say I have an "AGENDA".That's ridiculous.That's not reading the post.The post was really about how some have a double standard.For what ever reason,people acceptted the short comings of the FFII,but were intolerant of the xm2.I do not know Wayne or "Dspeck".So the post had less to do with the actual lights and more about the "double" standard.

[/ QUOTE ]

This "double standard" critique is only valid if you can show that specific INDIVIDUALS did this; a group as a whole has not just a double standard, but an n-fold standard, with n=number of people in the group.

Also, McGizmo--as usual--said it very well above, especially the part about people responding to what engages them and that this doesn't mean they were ignorant of the rest of the post.

And I will have to STRONGLY agree with him about this perfection criterion. Until you actually start making custom stuff up for people, you will have little appreciation for the almost limitless ways in which stuff can go wrong. I know how much work is involved in a project like the FF and I can assure you that it is HIGHLY generous of DSpeck to do it at all. Problems and imperfections simply come with the custom-made territory. Could DSpeck theoretically have done better? I'm sure. Would YOU have done any better? Don't be too sure.

But all that said, I do understand your point and your frustrations with the FF II.

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Ok,you are right about the "double standard",but would I have done any better,hmm.If I knew how,yes!Did I not say I know you can't be perfect.Didn't I also clarify what I meant by saying I would not send out a product until I at least THOUGHT it was perfect.When you make something,do you just assume it works? No,you try it out.All it would have taken is to turn on the lights to see that the beam wasn't satisfactory.Is that to much to ask?If someone takes pride in there work,is that too much to do?We are not talking about those who can vs. those who can't.We are talking about taking someones money for a product or service.You guys are making this into me vs. the FFII.I openly said that I WANT ONE AND WILL PROBABLY GET ONE! I am talking about quality control.I'm talking about business savy.If the FFII was being made for friends by a friend at cost,then that's being generous.Otherwise it's called business.If you want to compare,then let's compare mod vs. mod.That would make sense.Do you here about alot of problems with the VIP,no.Do you here about alot of problems with TNC,no.What you say about how I can't make a light as good as him is nonsense.I don't make lights.But I have OWNED a business and I DO KNOW about business.So let's not get personal.Especially since you don't know what I have or haven't done.I am talking about business.As I already said,I do not know Dspeck.I don't even know his real name.I have nothing personal to say about him.His business practices,that's another story.