Would like your input...

I am posting this from another forum site. I did not wright this. I would be interested in any responses. This person was quoted 175.00 for an ARC4 and this was his response.

Thanks!



"Maybe I just don't know quality when I read about it, but could you please explain in simple English why this LED flashlight is worth two hundred bucks?
Is it brighter than a $25 LED flashlight?

Will it last longer than eight $25 LED flashlights?

We all love neat tools, but $200 flashlights do seem a bit excessive.?

For one,this is a "hobby" for many.They don't just want a light,they want a LIGHT!I thought the same as you until I got my hands on a premuim light,then I was wowed!It's like having a pinto.Yes,it's a set of wheels and yes it will get you from point A to point B just like a Lexus,but in a Lexus you'll get there in style.As a great man once said,"If you want good quality oats,those come at a premium.If you want oats that have already passed thru the horse,well those come a little cheaper!" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/knight.gif

Vastly higher quality, many more options, and durability on a higher level cost more. As coachbigdog said, a car goes from pt. A to pt. B, so a Ferrari or a Rolls Royce should cost the same as a Yugo, right?

No, you don't need a Rolls, or an ARC 4+, but you also don't need a Beethoven symphony, a Picasso, or fifty yard line seats at the Super Bowl. All of these are things that some people want. It's OK that they do, and it's also OK that not everybody does. Some want these things to be better than most anything else, and also want them more, and that is also OK.

You don't have to understand why someone wants an ARC, just like some NASCAR fans like Jr. and some like Gordon (just don't put 'em in the same room).

The quest to make better things is one of the most important differences between humans and animals, and the desire to acquire these better items is also a human trait. We all like stronger, faster, and/or shinier things.

-(a different) Craig

Not only just cars, both many other consumer goods are like this too. Watches is another example. Compare a well known brand like Rolex against Seiko or even Timex.

GregR

fvjr,

It's strange but true: there are dyed-in-the-wool utilitarians loose in the world who really couldn't care less about quality and style and fit and finish and high performance. And you will never be able to "explain" to these people why an Arc4 is not only worth the money, but is actually a bargain. And, it's really best not to even try.

But the simple fact of the matter is that quality is real and important, and this is testified to constantly. Is a Snap-On combination wrench set worth 10 times the price of a Craftsman set? That's an impossible question to answer definitively without further qualification, but plenty of professional auto mechanics have voted "yes" with their hard earned dollars. It takes a long time to really appreciate all the subtle differences and pluses to a quality tool, but when you do, you have no doubt that it was "worth" the money, especially if you use that tool on a regular basis.

For me, if it's something I will use fairly often, then I'm willing to plunk down the extra money. But if I will only use it occasionally, and the less expensive (but still decent) tool will do the job, then I go for that. To wit: I have a Snap-On 3/8" drive socket set, but a Craftsman combination wrench set.

We all make choices and judgement calls on these sorts of things, and, frankly, if someone doesn't see the point of a $200 flashlight it's best not to press the issue, for their own sake. Why spread the disease more than can be helped? Tell this guy that you don't have any good answers for him. If he doesn't see the need for an Arc4, so much the better for him. Others of us have so many (and expensive) "needs" that our spouses would never forgive us if we gave ourselves full reign.

Jim,

I just got my new Arc 4 in the mail today. WOW! Did I make the right choice.

Thanks for the input!

Mark Rankin

Thats why I don't bother to explain anything to anyone about the value of our lights. We belong to a small community that actually appreciate these fine tools and we think it's worth it... the rest of the world can be in the dark (pun not intended) and buy Mags for all I care. The rest of us should feel lucky that we can enjoy the benefits of owning these amazing lights.

~Stephen

I agree. People seldom understand that a lot of work can go into a good light, and so they think that it is not worth the cost. I don't tell them either.

People seem to think that a light is a light is a light, and that's all there is to it. I guess that we just have to take comfort that here there are people who understand. :group_hug:

[ QUOTE ]
fvjr said:[/b






"Maybe I just don't know quality when I read about it, but could you please explain in simple English why this LED flashlight is worth two hundred bucks?
Is it brighter than a $25 LED flashlight?

Will it last longer than eight $25 LED flashlights?

We all love neat tools, but $200 flashlights do seem a bit excessive.?

[/ QUOTE ]

Apples and oranges comparison. Sorta like comparing the average 6v floating lantern to the Maxabeam searchlight.
Enjoy your new Arc 4. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Welcome to the CPF Support Group for flashaholism.. where you can find people who understand where you're coming from.

You should see what I have to deal with - people who go "WHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhAAAAAAAT?" when I tell them that the Surefire G2 is ONLY $30.

I recently spoke to someone in the armed forces, he couldn't understand why I would suggest he carry such a bright light at all. Apparently the anglehead GI lights are *VERY* popular, they don't even work half the time thanks to corroded batteries. Some users even prefer them that way. As for the supermarkets, in most of them, you can't even find a METAL flashlight to begin with - ALL of it is plastic to come in under the $9.95 price point, you can't even find the much-"loved" Mag!

It's the same at my job, I keep telling them to invest in better equipment, they tell me no. It's all about cost. When computing and communications gear fails, it costs your business and that's something you can actually put a dollar amount on. When stuff fails in the line of fire, it could cost you your life.

Like I always say.. "You are only as good as your instrumentation." but people seem to enjoy flying blind.

It is interesting how and why we as consumers see "value" in various products. I'm pretty stingy and have a limited budget (wife stays home with our son... something I'm happy to sacrifice a lot for...). However, I do have a few items that would be perceived as "luxury" but I try to strike a balance. I use my Arc4+ every day and really appreciate its features and durability. Something I use once a year I'm more willing to buy something cheaper that is still funcitonal.

But there is a limit - for instance I enjoy watches and have owned (and sold) a number over the years. Recently I have found myself centering my collection around vintage watches and Seikos. Seiko is an interesting company, as they, like Honda/Toyota/Nissan, do produce an Acura/Lexus/Infiniti product in addition to the mass marketed quartz watches. Seiko has everything from very inexpensive (but very reliable and functional watches) that we see in the US and they also have Grand Seiko automatic and hand wound watches that are hand made and cost well over $2k and are on par with or exceed the quality of Rolex and Omega in terms of craftsmanship and finish, and everything in between. However, they don't market them in the US and they are all essentially Asia only watches. I currently have 3 asis only Seikos - a vintage 1960s Lord Marvel hand wind (classic stainless watch with a 36000 high beat movement that is startlingly accurate), a Prospex titanium scuba chrono and an automatic diver. All are rock solid reliable and tremendous values. All have a "gee whiz" factor for me at least as marvels of mass engineering. The Prospex retails for $398.00 (although I bought mine used as a significant discount) and most people would blush at paying that for a lowly Seiko. I've only seen 3 Lord Marvels like mine for sale in the US over the 10 years or so I've been collecting and snatched it up the minute it went for sale a year or so ago. The fact that most would look at them and not think much of them is part of their appeal, unlike say a Rolex or other recognizable brand (much like most people would look at an Arc and see a metal flashlight). For me, these unusual Seikos represent historically significant movements and at a reasonable price allow me to feed my watch appetite without having to spend $3500 (which I don't have) on swiss watches.

I do believe that at some point more $ does not mean more value and that there is a sweet spot in most items that represent the most bang for the buck (and is not = cheapest).

In short - I like both value and quality that comes from understanding the products that mean something to me and allow me to strike what I perceive to be a price/value median.

[ QUOTE ]
HesNot said:
It is interesting how and why we as consumers see "value" in various products. I'm pretty stingy and have a limited budget (wife stays home with our son... something I'm happy to sacrifice a lot for...). However, I do have a few items that would be perceived as "luxury" but I try to strike a balance. I use my Arc4+ every day and really appreciate its features and durability. Something I use once a year I'm more willing to buy something cheaper that is still funcitonal.

But there is a limit - for instance I enjoy watches and have owned (and sold) a number over the years. Recently I have found myself centering my collection around vintage watches and Seikos. Seiko is an interesting company, as they, like Honda/Toyota/Nissan, do produce an Acura/Lexus/Infiniti product in addition to the mass marketed quartz watches. Seiko has everything from very inexpensive (but very reliable and functional watches) that we see in the US and they also have Grand Seiko automatic and hand wound watches that are hand made and cost well over $2k and are on par with or exceed the quality of Rolex and Omega in terms of craftsmanship and finish, and everything in between. However, they don't market them in the US and they are all essentially Asia only watches. I currently have 3 asis only Seikos - a vintage 1960s Lord Marvel hand wind (classic stainless watch with a 36000 high beat movement that is startlingly accurate), a Prospex titanium scuba chrono and an automatic diver. All are rock solid reliable and tremendous values. All have a "gee whiz" factor for me at least as marvels of mass engineering. The Prospex retails for $398.00 (although I bought mine used as a significant discount) and most people would blush at paying that for a lowly Seiko. I've only seen 3 Lord Marvels like mine for sale in the US over the 10 years or so I've been collecting and snatched it up the minute it went for sale a year or so ago. The fact that most would look at them and not think much of them is part of their appeal, unlike say a Rolex or other recognizable brand (much like most people would look at an Arc and see a metal flashlight). For me, these unusual Seikos represent historically significant movements and at a reasonable price allow me to feed my watch appetite without having to spend $3500 (which I don't have) on swiss watches.

I do believe that at some point more $ does not mean more value and that there is a sweet spot in most items that represent the most bang for the buck (and is not = cheapest).

In short - I like both value and quality that comes from understanding the products that mean something to me and allow me to strike what I perceive to be a price/value median.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nicely said. Very interesting about the Seiko watches, BTW. I had no idea, and I can see why they appeal to you. Thanks.

Thanks Jim. If you're interested - there is a nice history of Grand Seikos at http://plaza19.mbn.or.jp/~kseiya/gs/ and Mr. Higuchi at http://www.higuchi-inc.com//index-e.html has a nice selection of current asia only mid to high end Seikos and Citizens. It remains a mystery why Seiko and Citizen have more or less abandoned the mid to upper end watch market in the US under either Seiko or a "lexus" brand - but they decided long ago that the Swiss had the US market wrapped up.

However, there are a lot of servicemen who were stationed in the far east who came into contact with Seiko automatic dive watches of the 60s and 70s in particular a lot of which continue to run today with no servicing - a testament to their robustness.