best value medium ( ~60 + ) power flashlight, esp from the UK?

Well, I just got a Princeton-tec Surge today, and I think it is probably about the best value out there. It runs on eight AA batteries, so you don't have to worry about finding/mail ordering expensive lithium 123s, and you could use rechargeables if you wanted. It's waterproof, the switch can be activated with one hand, and it will fit in a coat or jacket pocket. And best of all, it is the first flashlight I have come across (other than my SL Scorpian) with a beam to compete with my Surefires. It is very bright, brighter than the E2/6P/Scorpian - and maybe even brighter than a 9P with a P90 lamp (my 9P's batteries were a little weak, so the contest wasn't quite fair). The beam is slightly focusable, but once set has no rings and is very nice. (Not quite as even as a Scorpian or E2, but better than any P90 I have tried). Best of all, the price was less than $30 (Brightguy).

I will still carry my E2 daily, as the Surge is too large to fit next to my wallet, but this thing will ride in my briefcase and probably become my most-used light.

-BCK

bkral... Please, a little more information on the Surge.

What are the actual dimensions? Can't seem to find this information anywhere yet.

Also, since it's after dark now, we just know you've probably had it outside already. Any further impressions? It's hard to imagine that it could rival a 6P, especially with a P61 (120 lumen) lamp.

I don't normally use the P61 bulb since it sucks the batteries dry so fast, but since you brought it up I dug it out to compare to the Surge. It's CLOSE. At short range (about three feet) against a white wall the P61 has a slightly more intense hot spot. At 30 feet the difference is minor, but visible - the P61 has a larger hot spot, while the Surge (at it's best beam setting)is slightly brighter. PT claims 7.5watts on the package. Without a light meter it's hard to tell, but I'd say the Surge is somewhere between the Scorpian/E2/P60 and the P61 - call it a P60.7?
The light is just over 160mm long - about the size of my 9P, but about twice the diameter. It's hard to tell from the pictures, but the head of the light is round (approx. 52mm) while the body is slightly oval (about 37mm x 44mm). The instructions say it's 11.6 oz. with batteries. It has a textured reflector (coarser than a SF or Scorpian) fixed in the bezel, and the bulb is a bi-pin that mounts directly to the battery carrier/switch assembly. The electrical bits are completely contained in the carrier/switch/bulb module, and it will function outside of the housing. The batteries are in two parallel groups of four, giving six volts - with the carrier out of the body, 4 cells seem as bright as 8, at least initially.

The switch lever has nice positive detents to lock it on or off, and a middle position for momentary use (it's not spring loaded, however - it just uses the friction from the o-ring that seals the switch post).

I guess I would think of the Surge as sort of a fatter, plastic, waterproof, AA alternative to the 9P, for less than half the cost (with batteries and a lanyard). If you don't need a "tactical" tail-cap switch and you aren't going to carry it in a pants pocket, I would recommend the Surge over the 2 and 3 cell lithium lights. Or even as an alternative to a Stinger/8NX if you happen to already own rechargables - my NiMH cells are charging as I type this...

-BCK

Well, I swapped some batteries around in my lithium lights and would grade the Surge more like a P60.4 (about 80-90 lumens?)The color temperature is slightly less white than the E2/P60, but it definitely seems to put out more light.

And, of course, the lettering on the side of my streamlight says scorpiOn. Thank you for your understanding...

-BCK

Ive always liked the spec of the surefire 9N, but cant justify that sort of money on a torch considering im a city dwelling IT type, I need a new flashlight, but I cant decide what to go for. Its mainly to store in the house for use in emergencys ( the neighbourhoods gotten a little bad rescently, and many of the residents are fairly old so Im oftain called out to help) Im basicaly looking for the best value torch in at least 60 or so lumen output I can justify. I really dont want to go to much over £100 ( works out to about $100 if I buy from america, due to shipping costs :-( )

I could stay with the cheap (ish) end of the market and get a 3 or 4 D cell maglight, but im tempted to go for a surefire E2 ( lithium batterys, so expensive to run) a mag charger (good specs and reasonable price, how big is it and would a rechargable be a bad idea as it would probably only get used 2-4 times a year, maybe bad for the battery?)

If theres a cheaper brand torch that would give about 100 lumen for less money Id be pleased to hear of it, basicaly im just asking for what torches you guys have found to be good value for money, especialy in europe, but im willing to buy from the US as the range and pricing over here is very poor relativly :-( .

Thanks in advance.


(edit: yeah, I know, a mag light isnt really in the league of some of these torches, but its a cheap, solid piece of equipment, and a self defence weapon thats exusable to carry in the street in the case of a nearby break in or similar)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bkral:
.... so you don't have to worry about finding/mail ordering expensive lithium 123s<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Finding 123 cells is no problem any more, I've been in several remote areas and got them. They are used for several cameras.

But they are very expensive outside the USA. Very often a 223 battery, which contains two 123 cells, costs about the same as one 123 cell.

But is as it is always: you get what you pay for. Li cells have a much more stable voltage over discharge. Alkalines drop by a factor of 2 over their useable capacity. So an (unregulated) incandescent flashlight using alkalines has to use a bulb which is actually designed for about 1.2-1.3 V/cell. When cells are fresh, the bulb is overvolted and much of it's lifetime is used up. On the other end of the discharge curve the bulb has a very bad efficiency.

Nutt,
sorry to hear that Bristol has turned downwards these days.

But anyway, the E2 and the Mag 3 or 4D aren't really comparable in terms of light production.

I love the Mag-lite's style, but:

At all distances except the 3D Mag's most extreme tightest-beam range, the E2 is Vastly superior. (Up to say about 100 metres)

Not only does it give out 2x the light, the beam is so good in terms of the distribution of light between the hotspot and surround beam, you won't miss the focusability of the Mag.
Also, the E2 is a whiter and cleaner light, and seriously more useful because of that.

Running costs with 123's are higher, but buy a SF 12 battery pack to cut the costs there. Someplaces in the UK offer 123's at about £2.50 each, too.

The E2 is 60 Lumens, the 3D about 35 Lumens, and the Mag-Charger is about 150 Lumens. I've never seen it for less than ~£120 in the UK. (If you buy American, make sure you get the UK mains adapter). The Mag-Charger is the same size as the 3D, except 1 cm longer.

When I was in a *tactical* situation recently, I had the E2 in one hand as a torch, and the 3D in my other hand as a heavy security blanket.

My, but did I feel safe that way ......

lightlover

WOW! Received a Princeton Surge this week from the BrightGuy (just over $25 US). Was pleasantly surprised to find it delivered "ready-to-go", with a complete set of fresh batteries and even a decent lanyard! Looking at value for dollar, nothing in the local stores even comes close!

I'll definately be using this little fellow a lot. Those 8 AA alkalines give this light some heft for its small size, however. Maybe I can find a sale on some lithiums sometime. The only fault I could find (IMHO) is that the case has a "slippery" kind of feel to it.

It really puts out a lot of light for its size. I'd have to rate it very close to my SF 6P with the 120 lumen bulb. I also have to rate its smooth beam as a definate plus. No noticeable rings or hot spots at all. I still think the 6P's light is better, overall (IMHO), but the Surge is not bad. I also like the way the lever switch works, positive lock stops for both ON and OFF, with a momentary-like effect in-between. It's hard to explain, but it really works well.

I'll still be carrying my SF's around with me all the time, but I think the Surge will be getting the most use around the house and yard.

Someplaces in the UK offer 123's at about £2.50 each, too.


The cheapest I`ve found is an online store based in Guernsey at... http://7dayshop.com . They sell Panasonic 123s in packs of 6 for under £7. They aren`t amazing performance batteries but are cheap, so unless you`re like mr Windler and insist on only the whitest brightest beam for your SFs (well why not- that`s what they`re designed for!) they are a good low cost alternative for regular usage.

Gents..what is the reach on the surge? Is it waterproof to any depth?

is it a pr bulb? if its 6 volts thats the same as the tec40. it would be cool to just order the replacement and put it in my tec40.

Regarding the Princeton Surge... I have a tree line in the back yard at exactly 100 yards. The light hits these trees pretty hard. It also shines a "soft" light out away from the stronger center, similar to a SF (but the SF is better in this regard). In other words, the beam is NOT one of those real strong laser-like types where you have to keep moving the light all around to see anything outside of the beam. You can see a very useable enough area with the Surge.

The package, I think, said it was supposed to be waterproof to around 300 feet.

Oh, almost forgot, the Surge uses a tiny bi-pin type bulb that plugs into a small socket.

Bucken...does your SF reach 300'? If so which model do you have?

Geoff- I believe that just about any Surefire will reach 300' (not sure about E1 since I don't have one). The big difference between the different Surefires is how MUCH useable light is still available at that distance. The bigger lights have bigger "cones" and also more light. A SF Turbohead focuses the light into a narrower beam and hence more light is is thrown a further distance (does this make sense?).

Even the E2 will light up the trees at 300', but the bigger lights do it with more authority. I have an E2 and a 6P.

Do not use Lithium AA batteries to power the Surge. They can ruin the lamp ( this is what the ad at bright guy says) anyway aren't nimh batteries lighter? you might try them in your light.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mrchri5:
Do not use Lithium AA batteries to power the Surge. They can ruin the lamp ( this is what the ad at bright guy says) anyway aren't nimh batteries lighter? you might try them in your light.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope.-Surprisingly the newer 1600-1800mAh NimH batts. are HEAVIER than DuraUltras, Ev-e2 alkalines...et.al.
I just weighed 'em on my new .1gm digital scale from eBay