LUX III Vs. LUX I brightness

zapper

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If as, read here somewhere, a LUX III is just a better LUX I, when both are driven at the same current (say 450 mA) and the same Vf (say K BIN) which would put out more light? Anyone have the capability, resources, past experience to test this? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif At higher currents there seems to be no question about the LUX III being better but this goes for a smaller light with less heat dissapation capabilities. Any reason to pay more for the III when a I might do?
 

IlluminatingBikr

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LuxI's and LuxIII's in general have been shown to be pretty much the same, untill you reach the 700mA mark. Between 700mA and 1,000mA the LuxIII's start to thrive, and the brightness is greater than that of a LuxI driven at the same current.
 

zapper

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So a nice QWOH 1 watt should in theory put out the same amount of light as a TWOH 3 watt below 700 mA? Very interesting. I've only been able to eyeball them and didn't think they looked very different at all. I can tell the difference between a P BIN and Q BIN as well as an S and T BIN. I was wondering if anyone had done any measurements. Thanks for the info! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif
 

IlluminatingBikr

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Someone did a current/brightness graph comparing a LuxI and LuxIII a while ago. I wish I had a link to that thread right about now.
 

zapper

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I'll start the search! Thanks ! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif
 

cy

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As measured By total output, my brightest lux 3/1 watt emitter is in ARC4X. Peter still has not fessed up which.

my brightest known one watt emitter is MM+ R2H. (dat2zip's chart, H bin is drawing 1-1.1 amps) Measured by brightest hot spot, it would be TWOJ 3watt driven by DB 917.

Host is firefly and mini-mag. currently I've got 7 sammies to compare to. everything from MMlite Tbin to Arc mania's super efficient mini-pill in TNC N-cell (RWOH)

MM+ Tbin is fairly close in brightness. However this summer ran into BentheadTx on Freewheel (bike ride across Okla.) and got smoked by his BB500 R2H in mini-mag. The individual emitter's performance is still a luxeon lottery.

I have noticed if you run a sammie with two AA lithiums in mini-mag. the output is noticeable brighter.

Please note these comparisons were done by eyeball not with a meter (ARC4X documented 46+ lumens), but valid due to being able to use same batt in two fireflys and two mini-mags side by side in many runtime tests.

currently EDC a BB500 R2H in my favorite beatup firefly w/aluminum head. Since I switched to aluminum head in firefly, I had to take out MM+ R2H sammie. it's gets too hot to hold very quickly. The copper head really helps in heat disapation.
 

zapper

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Thanks for the real world use info! Sounds like some very nice lights! I've got a 3 and 1 watt setup on a test breadboard with 3 AA's powering each with Fraen low profile lenses on top and I can't tell the difference on the cieling. I didn't want to waste a good 3 watt at 500mA when a just slightly cheaper 1 watt would do. I have a few 1 watt lights on 3 AA's I modded that throw as far as 100 yards and still light things up but because of the reflectors I use, ofcourse they are still nice Q BIN's just not as nice as your R2H! I'm going to use the 3 watt ones in some very nice high power situations!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/huh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/faint.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif

PS Since the aluminum head gets hot quick, I think that means it is doing it's job by transferring heat to your hand and away from the emitter as quickly and efficiently as possible!?
 

gadget_lover

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If you drive them at their designed spec, the Q is nowhere near as bright as the T. Of course, that means the Q is driven at 350ma and the T is 700ma.

If you underdrive the T by 50% so that it's the same current as the Q, you will see that a low bin T is similar to the Q and a high bin T is similar to an R.

The other major factor is that running a 1 watt Q at greater than 350ma will result in a failure sooner or later. This makes it about as reliable as a light with a xenon bulb. It may last years or may blow tomorrow.


Daniel
 

BentHeadTX

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zapper,
As cy says, it is a lottery when it comes to brightness. The fabled R bins have a range from 39 to 57 lumens at 350mA. My BB500 R2H Fraen LP minimag most likely leans toward the low to mid 50's in lumen output at stock levels. I would guesstimate it punches out 65 lumens when driven at 500mA. (it loses lumens when going through the optic but is still brighter than an Arc4+)
Another thing I noticed is brightness perception depends on tint. I have two BB500 R2H Frean LP minimags and they have slight tint variances. My EDC minimag (the one cy likes) it punches out a very white, slightly warm beam. The oh so slight leaning towards yellow would appear brighter to the human eye due to the eyes increased sensitivity to that color.
My other BB500 R2H sammie leans slightly towards the blue side. I use that one for my bicycle helmet mounted minimag. The slight bluish tint to the white light is more noticable to cars because the color is different from the sea of headlights that are normally seen.
The reason cy changed his sammie in the firefly when switching from copper to aluminum is simple: copper has greater mass to absorb heat. Copper also absorbs heat faster than aluminum so it works better for high wattage cooling. The higher the mass, the faster the heat is removed. Computer CPU heatsinks follow that rule, the high powered CPUs use either copper bases with aluminum fins or solid copper bases/fins. Silver is better than copper but has a cost/corrosion problem.
Optics have a major effect on throw. My BB500 R2H with the Fraen LP throws very far for a small light. Ran into cy during the OK Freewheel, he spotted me as a flashaholic because my minimag helmet light had a Kroll tailswitch. He guessed it was a modded light and asked lumen output then said "BB500 sammie" I was busted!
A few nights later at a campground, we were screwing around with his Firefly MM+ R2H, Arc4 and Arc AA. Compared them to my BB500 R2H Fraen LP minimags and MM+ R2H 2D Mag. It was the battle of the bins /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif
The firefly uses a cut down Fraen LP and I think that reduced output putting me at an advantage. His sammie pushes the R2H at over 1,000mA with mine at 500mA so call it a draw. Then it was time to even the score. Compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.
Two MM+ R2H lights were compared but using different optics. cy with his firefly with cutdown Fraen LP against my 2D Mag with modified Mag reflector. In terms of throw, the Mag reflector utterly (with extreme prejudice) destroys all our lights. It must of thrown a spot at least 150 meters and we had a good time discharging the NiMH 11 AH D cells.
If you want throw from a small light, use the Fraen LP or the largest reflector that will fit.
If throw is the most important, a 2C Mag with Madmax+ and a high binned Luxeon I or III would be your best bet. Luxeon V 5 watters will not throw as far due to the large die size although they will give a much larger hotspot. I have all the parts to put my WX1S 5 watter/nFlex 8AA in a 2D Mag project together except one thing: the heatsink. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mecry.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif
If you are doing mods, asking about bin codes, heat sinking and optics... you have rounded the corner and can't turn back. Just empty your wallet, clear a desk to work, have a container for all the extra parts and resign yourself as an addict. Enjoy!
 

LitFuse

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It has been widely theorized and stated here that a Lux III "T" is comparable to a 1W "R" bin, and that an "S" III is like a "Q" 1 watter. This is running at the same current.

This was disputed by Peter G. though, who stated that in his experience (considerable) that a "T" III is more like a "Q" 1W, and the "S" III is comparable to a "P" 1W.

In my experience (less considerable than many others here) I can discern virtually no difference between a "T" III and a "Q" 1W running in an Arc LS at 667mA or 777mA. An "R" 1W has been noticeably brighter than the "T" every time though.

I think the Lux III are evolutionary, not revolutionary. Some have wondered if the best bin 1W parts find their way to becoming Lux IIIs. I have no idea if this is fact or fiction, but are you even able to find premium bin 1 watters anymore? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

Peter
 

BentHeadTX

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Peter,
Thank you for the info reguarding R VS T bins, very interesting.
I, like you...would love to get a few more R binned one watters. Have three R2H and one R3J (microilluminator) could use a few more of them to mod SL Jr. Luxeons and Elektrolumens XM-3's.
I should of purchased a dozen R2H's when I had the chance last year /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif My guesstimation of common S binned one watters by the second half of 04 was wrong. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mecry.gif
 

zapper

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Well, that was great info guys! Thanks for your time and effort. I went ahead and built two lights exactly the same except for the Q 1 Watt and T 3 Watt. With the Fraen optic and 3 D batteries they seemed pretty much the same except for a slight difference in color. This is where I can see an advantage to a low power 3 Watt in that their color doesn't shift as much as the 1 watt versions. See you guys soon in the dark !! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 

cy

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The only current source for R2H are in TNC N-cell and TNC AA. Both are driven by ARC Mania's mini pill, which usually is built up with a RWOH at aprox. 200 milliamps.

Benthead, I stuck my BB500 sammie in mini-mag with two lithiums. just by eyeball of course. Output jumped by at least 50+%. noticeable brighter.

Since another cpf alerted us to the Target AA lithium deal for $3 a four pack. I've using lithiums in everything.

Lately I've been sticking 14500 li-ion into everything that takes a single AA. So far nothing has fried by all the overdriving. It's amazing the output difference of ARC AA, when you stick in a 3.85v cell. Don't blame me or ARC if you toast your light doing this.
 

idleprocess

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Here's a quick chart I made using Lumileds' data sheets for the 1, 3, and 5-watt portable emitters.

The realities of Luxeon binning means that your mileage will vary, but the III is typically more efficient than the I, and the V is typically more efficient than the III.
 

idleprocess

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Were I a programmer, I'd look into making some sort of web app that can dynamicly graph the watts/lumens output of various emitters by bin code.
 

BentHeadTX

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cy,
Does the BB500 regulator direct drive if the vF of the Luxeon is lower than the input voltage? If true, I wonder what mA you are pushing into your R2H?
I have some lithium AA batteries for my Arc AA and Peak AA red, not tried them in my minimag. Then again, I prefer to use rechargables so I can have "free" light.
Anyone know if badboy current regulators direct drive if their voltage is higher than the vF of the Luxeon?
 

cy

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if the battery voltage exceeds the Vf of the Luxeon, boost circuitry is nullified and circuit goes into direct-drive with a schottky diode in series.
 

BentHeadTX

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cy,
Thanks for clearing that up for me. Considering the vF of the H (in R2H) is 3.03-3.27. Punching it up with 3.4~3.6V of fresh lithiums would direct drive the low voltage R2H.
I was thinking of doing that but don't want to smoke my EDC if the H part is towards the 3.03V end. Heading out in a few weeks and want to play around in the sand with my favorite.
 
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