Bad apartment neighbor...what would you do?

I'll throw this out to the forum to get users opinions.

I have a downstairs apartment of a four unit house. In March, two guys in their 20s moved in upstairs. One of their bedrooms is above mine with an outside entrance to a second floor balcony that is not too far above my window. The soundproofing is typical apartment in which you can hear the people walk around. They had two I'll call them "parties" in the same week with lots of noise going over my bedroom in and out of their balcony until the very wee hours in the morning. Sleep for me was not easily forthcoming. I mentioned it to the landlord and asked if he could intervene. In a subsequent discussion with the landlord, I asked how it went and he said the thought well. The landlord tried to be easy going and said the problem was more of a lack of soundproofing then their fault. Said the guy he talked to was polite and understanding. The parties stopped and I don't hear a lot of noise during the day.

The trouble is the other guy, not the one the landlord spoke to, whose bedroom is above mine, deliberately stomps on the floor....at three or four in the morning. Not every night but a week doesn't go by with a stomp. Enough to wake me up. Also will occassionally slam the outside door to the balcony. I am 100 percent positive it is deliberate as one time I took a peek out the window to the balcony and saw that he was standing off to one side so he could see my window. I thought I would wait him out and hope he would lose interest as little children or perhaps immature adults do. However it's been more then three months and last night there was two stomps, one at three and the other at four. I had enough and called the landlord again today. He likes me and was quite upset. He offered to intervene again but we wondered if it might be better if I talked to the guy instead, not copping an attitute but explaining how easily the noise transfers between floors and if he keeps these nocturnal hours (he doesn't have a normal 9-5 job but I won't get into that), please try to take it easy, etc. But in talking this over with subsequent people I'm having second thoughts. He knows what he is deliberately doing and he knows that I know. Trying to be nice like he is a child, might further spur him on. Plus I do not know him at all save an initial conversation when they first moved in and the landlord has never spoken to him either, only to the other guy whom in a couple of brief conversations I've had with him seems OK. Most likely the other guy might not even know what's going on. Some say I should say nothing and just move and get an apartment on a top floor. Other's of course say I should buy a condo but in the wonderful state of northeast MA only single income doctors can afford decent property not run of the mill electronic techs like me. A garden style at best would be all I could afford and then I could most likely have a noise problem as most of them are just converted apartments.

So what would you do? The landlord is cool and charges me below market rent said if it came to the point where I felt unsafe he might be able to put me up temporarily in another condo he just bought while I look around. Oh on a side note, a couple of weeks ago, I awoke to find a flat tire with an inserted nail. I will assume the benefit of the doubt and that I ran over it sometime before but I can not be sure of that.

Thanks for any input. Didn't mean for this to be so long.

my advice,

talk to both of them directly. he may be miffed at you "calling the landlord on him" (i think your actions are totally justifiable). see if that clears the air, don't assume you know which one is doing it, that he's doing it deliberately, flattened your tire etc. give him his chance and see how it turns out.

Bring up an ARC AAA as a peace offering .

Talk to him! Really, why go through a 3rd party like the LL? It only gets some people pissed off. Face to face is always the best. And if you really wanna settle the problem, make like you don't suspect it's intentional and follow your original plan. He's your upstairs neighbor. Do you say hello when you pass each other? Smother him with kindness. As much as it might turn your stomach to do so, it might catch him off guard and find himself inviting you to the next party .

[And if that don't work, there's always the broomstick to get even.]

can you see your car from a window ?
point a video camera at your car.

record the stomping and other sounds.

get the police involved

I am more forward than you.
I am not afraid of any one
my next door neighbors dog used to bark a lot
6 to eight hours constantly at times
(what is it about dog owners that they think every one should have to listen to their dogs--not me)
I complained and they ignored me
so I digitaly recorded their dog
then using a sound meter I played it back at the same volume as their dog using a large pa speaker.
it drove their dog nuts and them too.

I can make them listen to their dog at any time.
now they take their dog indoors when it whines and barks.
I can stand a bit of the whining and barking but after a half hour or more it gets old.
when the dog is outside it is about 12 feet from one of the walls to my front room.

Leave the LL out of it, getting the LL involved was a mistake in the first place. If you don't want to talk to the neighbor face to face, then write a letter instead. Be reasonable, make some gestures toward accomodation, but don't be intimidated. If you're really suspicious about the flat tire, you could mention it in the letter; make it clear that you don't know how it happened and you're not accusing anyone, but that you also can't be sure it was an accident, so the incident has escalated your general level of concern, and that law enforcement will definitely be notified if anything else like that happens. Set up some webcams if you think there might be further vandalism.

Write another letter to the LL thanking him for his previous intervention, that the problem is still persisting but that as you discussed with him, you're not asking for further intervention at this time since you're going to approach the neighbor yourself. The letter should document the disturbances as precisely as possible. That gives the LL a paper trail in case of an eventual eviction action against the neighbor.

If you write to the neighbor, depending on what tone you take in your letter, you might want to CC it to the landlord along with your separate letter to the LL.

Move to MS. It's cheap enough to live here that you can get a house.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I'm a real estate broker and own and manage multi-family properties. Unfortunately, your problem is not unusual, but every problem is different and requires a thoughtful and practical approach.

I would have first suggested a lowkey, personal approach. That failing, it becomes the landlords problem. Do you have a written lease? Do the problem neighbors have a written lease? If so, general conduct expectations are usually set forth. Ask that the LL enforce them. If that fails, you could consider legal action in the civil courts to force the LL's compliance. Note that you would not take any action toward the neighbor -- you have no legal standing to do so --that's what you want to force the LL to do. I doubt there's any remedy in the criminal courts, but all states are different.

If there are no leases and the LL doesn't come through, it'll probably be an untenable situation. I would consult a real estate attorney. If there's nothing to be done in the courts, it would probably be more practical to cut your losses and find a new place. Even tho you'll have wounded pride and probably a wounded pocketbook, you'll avoid the stress and depression that comes with this type thing.

It sounds as if you like your apartment and that you are a good, long-term tenant (a LL's dream!). Based upon the information in your post, I, as the LL, would move the new guys out in a heartbeat.

Good luck. Remember, the advice you get in the internet, including mine, is worth exactly what you pay for it.

Turbodog offers a good solution. Sounds as if you have great and portable skills. Or you could come to Texas -- just this morning I leased a 2br 2bth 2gar w/fireplace in a very nice townhome community for $860 month.

Thanks for the suggestions thus far. No I would not do anything to go against the landlord. He has already offered to intervene and use his powers to the best he can. He says if it continues and/or I move out, he will not renew their lease next Spring. I don't have a lease and can leave anytime I want. Probably it wouldn't hurt to try a low key one on one with the party involved. I just worry about his volatility.

I had a floormate with the annoying tendencies of liking acid rock, being nocturnal and a little on the deaf side.
During the school year, I'm usually so tired that you can paint my face blue while I sleep (and yes, it did happen) but this guy reinvented the decibel! When he was on, I could see my coffee dance.
Anyway, before my finals, I went to him, made a few jokes about him miserable I was, lended a couple dvds and games as peace offerings, replaced the battery in his camera he though was busted, you know, made friends...
He never bothered me again; we're now playing tennis together on weekends and my own roommate even thanked me! Happy ending.
I'm not pretending to be expert on diplomatic situations but I sure don't regret doing that instead of putting him on the RA's hit list and getting his stereo confiscated...

If all of the above fails, I would call the police on the MF'er. This sounds like Disterbing the Peace to me.

Talk to him,pray for him,and if that all fails wait for him to "peek" at your window again and "introduce" him to CPF via the BRIGHTEST light money can afford.Guarantee he'll "see the light!" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

Yeah, he'll see it for the next few hours! hehe.

1. Get a hold of the Mormon Church and some others.
Give them the address of the apartment number with the problem child. Tell them you are him and you are having some moral and ethical questions and that your roomie told you that he had once been helped by counseling and you are just considering whether or not they can help.

No offense to any Mormons here...but you know the missionaries don't like to give up when they get a fish on the line.

2. Collect some road kills and bury several of them on premesis. Call the SPCA and PETA and tell them you think one of your neighbors is torturing small animals for some ritualistic purpose.

3. Subscribe the moron to several free magzaines of various questionable color...the more deviant the better. Hustler used to have tons of these advertisers. A good variant is adding his email address to dozens of mailing lists.

4. Go to the local newspaper and pay cash for a personal add using his home phone number advertising a lonely shift working looking for homsexual phone sex and calls only after 3:00 AM. You ought to be able to chuckle yourself off to sleep after a while with this one.

5. Call the power company and go ballistic about your (his) bill, swear you are going to burn them out if your lawyer can't win a case against them and tell them they'll never get another dime from him.

6. Make several pledges to PBS and other organizations in his name.

7. Put a fish on his exhaust manifold.

8. Think about all of these and get a good chuckle. Try talking it out with him first and that might work. You never know. If it does not....................

wow and I thought I was clever

I'd forget about the tire, since it is just suspicion, and talk to him in a friendly manner

[ QUOTE ]
14C said:
1. Get a hold of the Mormon Church and some others.
Give them the address of the apartment number with the problem child. Tell them you are him and you are having some moral and ethical questions and that your roomie told you that he had once been helped by counseling and you are just considering whether or not they can help.

No offense to any Mormons here...but you know the missionaries don't like to give up when they get a fish on the line.

2. Collect some road kills and bury several of them on premesis. Call the SPCA and PETA and tell them you think one of your neighbors is torturing small animals for some ritualistic purpose.

3. Subscribe the moron to several free magzaines of various questionable color...the more deviant the better. Hustler used to have tons of these advertisers. A good variant is adding his email address to dozens of mailing lists.

4. Go to the local newspaper and pay cash for a personal add using his home phone number advertising a lonely shift working looking for homsexual phone sex and calls only after 3:00 AM. You ought to be able to chuckle yourself off to sleep after a while with this one.

5. Call the power company and go ballistic about your (his) bill, swear you are going to burn them out if your lawyer can't win a case against them and tell them they'll never get another dime from him.

6. Make several pledges to PBS and other organizations in his name.

7. Put a fish on his exhaust manifold.

8. Think about all of these and get a good chuckle. Try talking it out with him first and that might work. You never know. If it does not....................

[/ QUOTE ]

Had some bad neighbors have we? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin07.gif

First of all, if the nail in your tire was in the tread rather than the sidewall of the tire, it was almost certainly just something that you ran over and not deliberate vandalism. Vandalism would more likely be on the sidewall and would not contain a nail, but would just be a hole or slash. This guy is a punk but I don't think it has escalated to vandalism yet.

Second, if this guy wants to get under your skin for some reason, there is almost nothing you can do that will certainly prevent it except moving, waiting for him to move or waiting for him to finally get bored with the game and forget about you. The only really practical proactive thing you can do to stop it is to befriend the guy and let him see that you are a person and not just a fun target. However, befriending someone you have a reason to dislike may not be an easy task or something that you would be interested in doing. Befriending his roommate might be easier and help some.

Most people are responsible and want to get along with their neighbors, but a very small percentage of people are just punks and don't care. I have had a few punk neighbors like that and I make them tow the line to the extent that I can. If they have a party past 11pm, the police arrive. If they fail to mow the lawn or if they park in the lawn, etc. I call the neighborhood management and they send a letter threatening a fine. If they are making unnecessary noise I go over there and ask them to be quiet. This makes them hate me, but at least I am letting them share in the hassle and it's not just me being hassled. It also lets them know that I am not going to just lay down and be a victum. However, if you think he is trying to get under you skin and you are hoping he will get bored eventually, you shouldn't let him know in any way that he is bothering you. That is just encouragement.

I once had a really punk apartment neighbor that absolutely blasted his stereo at a truly ridiculous level regardless of several completely reasonable and polite requests from me. I explained the problem to the landlord and he told me how to shut off the electricity to his unit and encouraged me to do so. But fortunately it didn't come to that. It would have stopped the noise, but there probably would have been some retaliation, and I don't want to get involved in that cycle with someone who is more vicious than I am and has less to lose. He didn't crank the stereo any more and I moved shortly thereafter for other reasons.

Regarding the landlord: in my experience, the landlord does not have much more power to solve this than you do (and usually very little interest). He can make a call and a polite request. In the extreme, he MIGHT be able to evict the tenant, but if they are paying rent then in most cases he is not going to bother with and pay for eviction to please you. Furthermore, it is not easy to prove that the neighbors are making too much noise and that you are not just being too sensitive.

There are several things to remember: (1) in the world of apartment living, either you or your neighbor are probably going to move before too long, so wait it out if you can. (2) Never, ever move in below another apartment. (3) Foam ear plugs can allow you to sleep through a lot of BS from upstairs. (4) You already know he's a punk, and you don't want to learn what the punk might do to you or your property if provoked.

Good luck with this frustrating problem!

I lived in apartments for close to 30 years and if I got a noisy neighbor the LL had one chance to correct the problem if it reoccurred I called the police and the property management. I would press charges against the tenants and LL for failure to assure peace and quiet. I had at least 4 renters evicted for disturbing the peace and the ll got the message and finally put responsible adults into the apartment just to avoid getting summons served on them. You have the right to peace and quiet legally in many states as a tenant.

Go get a nail gun and see if you can tag one of his feet through the ceiling. Could be entertaining.