Assault Weapons Sunset?

It looks as if the "Assault Weapons Ban" is due to sunset in about 5 weeks?
What's going to happen when if/it does sunset? Will High Capacity Magazines be manufactured again for civilian use? Will it affect California in any ways? I'm thinking it won't, but at least the rest of the US will regain some ground....

Not sure, but I think the California legislature has already passed a law which says that the state law repeating and extending the federal law will not sunset and is in place forever.

...grumble...

Yeah, this won't help you if you live in CA unfortunately. Move to Nevada /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

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nerdgineer said:
Not sure, but I think the California legislature has already passed a law which says that the state law repeating and extending the federal law will not sunset and is in place forever.


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I assumed that it wouldn't mean anything to California /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
How does this affect the rest of the free world though?

Word is some gun makers are offering coupons for hi-caps after the ban falls. If it falls.

Just because they don't pass it now doesn't mean they won't later.

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Darkcobra said:
Will High Capacity Magazines be manufactured again for civilian use?

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Hi Cap magazines are already being plentifully manufactured. The "LE only" stamp won't mean anything anymore, and will probably be dropped on future product.

I've heard about the coupons too, haven't seen any yet though.

My experience is different on this. I bought a semi auto pistol right after the "ban" went into effect. Guy at the shop told me that it was only for newly manufactured stuff. The new stuff could not COME with more than 1 clip, and the clip could not hold over 10 rounds. He then went on to say that aftermarket clips were available and legal. It just limited what could come with the gun. Fortunately my pistol was old stock.... 2 clips and over 10 rounds each.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

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Stingray said:
Hi Cap magazines are already being plentifully manufactured.

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Wow, I did not know that... I thought all manufacturing of high caps were to cease with the ban, hence the rediculous prices for hi caps.

He was wrong, it it also illegal to sell aftermarket, or any, hi cap clips manufactured after the ban date to most US civilians. You can however, buy used pre ban ones, new pre ban ones, and new parts for pre ban ones.

They still make new ones, just for LE, Military, and other countries without ridiculous bans.

Beretta is offering the coupon you spoke of. I read it on an new gun at the last gun show. It is very complicated wording that boils down to what you said, free hi-cap mag if the ban fails.
In Sept of 94, all manufactures(inclucding aftermarket) were not allowed to procuce any more 10+ magazines. Since the law was passed way before that, many manufactures went into high gear making hi-cap mags. Para Ordinance is a good example. You can still get hi-cap mags with their new guns, they made enough to last for 10 years!
http://www.paraord.com/pages/highcapmags.html

Lots of guns not even made before 94 have hi caps you can get. Most come from Europe.

My interest is in the surplus rifles coming in from over seas, will these no longer have to have the "seven component" rule applied? A $300 FAL would be to my liking.

$300 FAL would be nice...
I have a pre-ban L1A1, got it for $399, back in the days.

Lots of speculation going on right now as to what will happen when the AW Ban sunsets (99.9% likeness it will sunset, as the Dem Gun Grabbers don't have the votes to extend or even bring it to a vote).

I've heard the ATF may still rule that "LEO-marked" hi-caps are for LEO only--the basis being they are govt or dept. property or some such nonsense. I don't think this would stand-up in Court however after the AW Ban sunsets (since when the AW Ban does sunset, there will no longer any legal basis to restrict LEO-marked hicaps in its post Sept. 13, 2004 non-existent regulations)--as LEO departments routinely surplus their equipment.

What you can count on is the price of pre-existing hi-caps to drop like crazy right about now. For instance: Glock 17 17-round pre-ban hi-cap magazines have dropped from the $90-100 mark to about the $45-55 mark already--as dealers or individuals stocked with them are facing the reality of newly-manufactured hi-caps going for $25 a piece in 5 weeks. Essentially, if they can fetch say $50/piece now for them, they can pick up 2 hi-caps in 5 weeks or so.

I think you'll find a spike in demand for hicaps right around Oct. 2004 for say 6-12 months, then demand was flatten out as the pent-up demands fade away and the "hoarders" fearing another AW Ban have filled-up on their hi-caps.

I don't get on my soapbox too often, but please if you support the sunsetting of the AWB, join the NRA or your choice of pro-2A organization. You have them to thank for the sunset clause being written into the Klinton Gun Ban!

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bigcozy said:
Lots of guns not even made before 94 have hi caps you can get. Most come from Europe.


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Yes, you can get them from Europe, but importation of those mags was also banned, therefore they are illegal. There has been much discussion on the "grey market" HK magazines illegally returning from Germany with US military servicemembers. They are not marked as restricted, but were obviously made after the ban. The ban covers date of manufacture, regardless of markings (or lack there of).

-Randy /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Gun policy is one of the Democratic Party's greatest failings, but legislation would not have passed without many Republican votes. What's next, my Chicago Cutlery (now made in China) or Louisville Sluggers? Such legislation is, simply, for political purposes as it makes no sense. At 50k and 500k deaths per annum, cars and cigarettes ought to be outlawed - using the same logic.

Stupid Democrats - if they would lay off of gun legislation for a while, the Republicans would take over the banning of ballistics.

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double_r76 said:
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bigcozy said:
Lots of guns not even made before 94 have hi caps you can get. Most come from Europe.


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Yes, you can get them from Europe, but importation of those mags was also banned, therefore they are illegal. There has been much discussion on the "grey market" HK magazines illegally returning from Germany with US military servicemembers. They are not marked as restricted, but were obviously made after the ban. The ban covers date of manufacture, regardless of markings (or lack there of).

-Randy /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

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I have seen made-for-European distribution post-1994-manufacture Glock hi-cap magazines (not that there's any other kind!) marked with IIRC a "post 1994 manufacture" (or some other such nonsense) stamping on them along the spine. This, ostensibly, to foil would-be folks from importing them into the States during the AW Ban.

Just FYI.

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guncollector said:

I don't get on my soapbox too often, but please if you support the sunsetting of the AWB, join the NRA or your choice of pro-2A organization. You have them to thank for the sunset clause being written into the Klinton Gun Ban!

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I could not agree more. Everyone needs to remember this lesson of the Clinton administration and let it serve as a wake up call not let it or anything like it happen again.

i dislike guns . but i think we all have the right to own them..

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bigcozy said:
Lots of guns not even made before 94 have hi caps you can get. Most come from Europe.

My interest is in the surplus rifles coming in from over seas, will these no longer have to have the "seven component" rule applied? A $300 FAL would be to my liking.

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Sans bolt guns or SKS's (and a few other off brands) there are no surplus rifles in the vien of FAL's or AK's coming in from overseas now, nor have there been for a long, long time.
The ATF has ruled "once a machinegun, always a machinegun", so "surplus AK's and FAL's" couldn't be reimported and configured as semi-auto.

Now, what you CAN do- due to what has to be the closest definition of "loophole" i've ever seen- is import the demilled parts kits (which contain the major "semi-auto" neutral components like barrels and stocks) and then by adding some US manufactured parts, make it into a functioning semi-auto rifle, so long as it isn't configured as an "assault weapon".

We must remember here- we are dealing with 2 bans.
The 1989 Import Ban, which would cover Semi-Auto FAL's and AK's made overseas, and the 1994 "assault weapons" ban which deals with domestic weapons configured in a specific way.

So, if the "assault weapons" ban sunsets, you can put a flash-hider and a telestock (or whatever evil feature you desire) on a semi-auto rifle as you wish, buy $19 full capacity Glock mags, and so on... But the "import" ban still dictates what guns can and can't be imported, and since many of the designs are to cost prohibitive to tool up and manufacture here from scratch in the USA, they won't ever be available again.

So, forget about that Sig 551 (Unless Sig makes one here??), but you can have a telestock on your AR again.

Sorry for getting so windy here....

Vilsk

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double_r76 said:

They are not marked as restricted, but were obviously made after the ban. The ban covers date of manufacture, regardless of markings (or lack there of).

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This is one of those "the truth is in the details" things, but you're just as much wrong as you are right.
The section of 922r as it relates to postban magazines DOES NOT cover magazines "regardless of markings".
Absolutley the opposite. It is written directly into the law that any magazine not bearing a serial number or a manufacture date as being after the bas is legally assumed to be PREBAN, thus legal.

The HK silvermags mainly in question- those for the USP45, are unmarked, thus assumed to be legal.
The catch is, they were obviously manufactured after the ban. There was some discussion as if there were some "prototypes" at HK/USA before the ban (which would make a big difference), but I don't think there were.

The mags are obviously postban, and it could probably be proven in court- however, the law states VERY CLEARLY that A-N-Y magazine not marked in a certain fashion is assumed to be preban.

In short, it's grounds for a test-case that i'd rather not fight. But the law clearly contradicts itself in practical terms when obviously postban mags that are unmarked are illegally imported.
It's almost like the Bush doctrine on Mexican immigration.
If we catch them coming in, you're in trouble, but once they get here, it's home free. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif