Gentlemen, I have a one million candlepower Victor spot light for things that go bump in the back yard, I have a Streamlight TL-3, a Pelican M6 lithium and a Surefire G2 and E1. The G2 sits next to my bed, the E1 is EDC, and the TL-3 and the Pelican M6 are what I use the most. Why would a Surefire C3, M2, M3 or M4 be any better than my TL-3 or P-M6? The only difference of course is the combat grip. Is this a case of a Timex versus a Casio or even a Rolex? Cost for me is a consideration. I am cheap. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif If I were in Iraq, I would want the shock isolated bezel and the quality of the Surefire, but it is hard for me to justify the difference in cost. I take fairly good care of my "stuff" and I see my flashlights becoming obsolete before I wear them out or break them. Sell me on a $120+ Surefire versus the $32 P-M6 or $65 TL-3. Thanks in advance for the benefit of all the experience and knowledge that is about to rain down on me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
Surefire- What am I missing?
- Thread starter ugrey
- Start date
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U2 definitely, ditto.
And might want to check the L4 or L2, too, while you are at it.
And when you are there, search for "McLux" and "McE2S" for some nice LED add-ons (CPF customs) and two-stage tail-caps ...
And then, you are /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/broke.gif and lost, like we are /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
bernhard
And might want to check the L4 or L2, too, while you are at it.
And when you are there, search for "McLux" and "McE2S" for some nice LED add-ons (CPF customs) and two-stage tail-caps ...
And then, you are /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/broke.gif and lost, like we are /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
bernhard
There is no need to sell you. If you don't need Surefire (and most don't) don't buy it. Save your money and buy more of others.
I guess many at this point might ask, how will you know if you need Surefire? It's a fair question, but if you have to ask you don't need. That is NOT intended to be a sarcastic or flip answer at all. Those who need it, know it. I think you know yourself when you said "If I were in Iraq, I would want the shock isolated bezel and the quality of the Surefire"
So buy Surefire if it's an itch you have to scratch or your being shipped out. Otherwise I say be perfectly happy with what you have it's good stuff.
I guess many at this point might ask, how will you know if you need Surefire? It's a fair question, but if you have to ask you don't need. That is NOT intended to be a sarcastic or flip answer at all. Those who need it, know it. I think you know yourself when you said "If I were in Iraq, I would want the shock isolated bezel and the quality of the Surefire"
So buy Surefire if it's an itch you have to scratch or your being shipped out. Otherwise I say be perfectly happy with what you have it's good stuff.
Shock isolation is such a misunderstood thing. The shock isolation is along one axis only. The further you deviate from that axis, the less shock protection you get. Drop it perpendicular to the axis and you got yourself a non-shock isolated bezel. Don't get me wrong, it's a great thing to have if you're mounting on a weapon where the shock is along the longitudinal. But for daily use, the increase in size and the chancey protection you get from the usual drops/bumps diminishes its utility.
As far as your other lights, nothing wrong with them. Surefire is considered by many to be a premium light. It's a company that at one time offered products that no one else had. Today, there are more players in their field and they are under some competitive pressures. However, to me they remain as one of the most innovative as far as coming up with superior and innovative technology. Which is good for us all. I'm not going to convince you to go buy a $120 SF light. Only you can decide that for yourself.
CM
As far as your other lights, nothing wrong with them. Surefire is considered by many to be a premium light. It's a company that at one time offered products that no one else had. Today, there are more players in their field and they are under some competitive pressures. However, to me they remain as one of the most innovative as far as coming up with superior and innovative technology. Which is good for us all. I'm not going to convince you to go buy a $120 SF light. Only you can decide that for yourself.
CM
I work in an industry where myself and my coworkers are required to carry a flashlight. This requirement prompted me to start searching for a good flashlight about 2 years ago. Prior to my searching, the only name I knew, like countless others, was Mag! After searching the Internet for information I found Flashlightreviews.com, which ultimately led me here to Candlepowerforums where I lurked for quite some time.
I was reading new names like Streamlight, Surefire, Pelican, Arc, etc. I ordered my first high-dollar flashlight almost 2 years ago, the Surefire E2E, based on other people's reviews/opinions. I loved it! The engineering impressed me, and the output was unlike anything I had seen. Most people around here still used either Mags or the standard-issue 2D plastic light from the warehouse.
Now, 2 years later, over 30 people now use Surefire flashlights here at my plant, directly related to my first purchase 2 years ago.
Recently people have begun trying out other brands, and so I have had the chance to play with Streamlight TL-2's and 3's. Ultra Stingers, Scorpions, Pelicans, Innova's, etc. But still, Surefire captivates me. Perhaps it's the mechanical engineer deep inside me?
Many brands out there offer the same or even better output as the Surefire's I've grown to love, but as far as I've seen, no incans are as over-engineered as the Surefire's, which is why I continue to buy them.
You have to ask yourself this question: "Do I like the engineering and uniqueness of a Surefire enough to warrant the extra cost over another brand with the same Lumen output?" I do!
Ugrey, you already own an E1, so you understand where I'm coming from! It is, afterall, your EDC.
My current everyday carry at work is the C3.
I was reading new names like Streamlight, Surefire, Pelican, Arc, etc. I ordered my first high-dollar flashlight almost 2 years ago, the Surefire E2E, based on other people's reviews/opinions. I loved it! The engineering impressed me, and the output was unlike anything I had seen. Most people around here still used either Mags or the standard-issue 2D plastic light from the warehouse.
Now, 2 years later, over 30 people now use Surefire flashlights here at my plant, directly related to my first purchase 2 years ago.
Recently people have begun trying out other brands, and so I have had the chance to play with Streamlight TL-2's and 3's. Ultra Stingers, Scorpions, Pelicans, Innova's, etc. But still, Surefire captivates me. Perhaps it's the mechanical engineer deep inside me?
Many brands out there offer the same or even better output as the Surefire's I've grown to love, but as far as I've seen, no incans are as over-engineered as the Surefire's, which is why I continue to buy them.
You have to ask yourself this question: "Do I like the engineering and uniqueness of a Surefire enough to warrant the extra cost over another brand with the same Lumen output?" I do!
Ugrey, you already own an E1, so you understand where I'm coming from! It is, afterall, your EDC.
My current everyday carry at work is the C3.
KevinL
Flashlight Enthusiast
The real magic is in the modular system. Nobody else has a modular system that scales up and down, that can be configured for virtually any purpose imaginable. Mix and match and build your own light for your own needs. Scale up and down, add extenders and batteries, change lamps all the way up to 200 lumens/20 minutes or down to 19 lumens/7 HOURS, jump across technology platforms - LED or incan, have it your way. Not happy with lithiums? Choose the factory stock NiCad or aftermarket lithium ion cells for guilt free lumens. Throw in a turbohead when you need to reach out and ping something. Choose your lanyard or build your own. Choose even the way you hold your light, tactical, traditional, overhand, pencil grip or any of the dozen handgun grips.
That's the reason why I put down $90 on my C2. It has the flat sides, the grip ring and the clip in HA3. Compared to the G2, it has a Pyrex lens and it tolerates heat from higher performance lamps better. It's about as good as the basic platform will get. From there on it's all about the options.
That's the reason why I put down $90 on my C2. It has the flat sides, the grip ring and the clip in HA3. Compared to the G2, it has a Pyrex lens and it tolerates heat from higher performance lamps better. It's about as good as the basic platform will get. From there on it's all about the options.
jayflash
Flashlight Enthusiast
Welcome to our fun, ugrey, glad to have you join us. I'm with Double_A on this one. My G2 and E2e may be the only SF's that I buy - at least for quite awhile. I've found that for my needs, StreamLight and Pelican provide shock resistance and a better value. With the number of blown lamps reported with SF lights, I don't feel they are that much better. I'd rather buy several other lights than one expensive SF - unless I'd be using it all time, which might justify the cost.
capnal
Enlightened
[ QUOTE ]
jayflash said:
Welcome to our fun, ugrey, glad to have you join us. I'm with Double_A on this one. My G2 and E2e may be the only SF's that I buy - at least for quite awhile. I've found that for my needs, StreamLight and Pelican provide shock resistance and a better value. With the number of blown lamps reported with SF lights, I don't feel they are that much better. I'd rather buy several other lights than one expensive SF - unless I'd be using it all time, which might justify the cost.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well said! I might not get any more than my G2 and my 6P, and my wife's E1. If I want a light that I am sure I beat to he!!, it won't be a surefire! For one thing, it would break my heart to get a scratch on a $180 dollar light. That is why I have almost the entire prodcut lines of Streamlight, Pelican, and Responder. My 3C Brightstar Responder is rated for a 30 foot drop, and only cost me about $30 bucks.
I have a friend and coworker here in my office. He owns a pricey SF 9AN. He dropped it once, it got messed up, and I sent it back to Fountain Valley for him. They made it right. 2 weeks later, he drops it again. Boom, another $30 dollar lamp assembly. He has just about totally changed his mind on his "need" for a high dollar light like that. He went and bought a whole new G2 with batteries for $29.95 instead of buying a lamp assembly.
So, opinions are just that....and every one has them. A lot of guys here are die hard SF fans and will share much more informed opinions than I have offered here, so keep reading and doing your research.
jayflash said:
Welcome to our fun, ugrey, glad to have you join us. I'm with Double_A on this one. My G2 and E2e may be the only SF's that I buy - at least for quite awhile. I've found that for my needs, StreamLight and Pelican provide shock resistance and a better value. With the number of blown lamps reported with SF lights, I don't feel they are that much better. I'd rather buy several other lights than one expensive SF - unless I'd be using it all time, which might justify the cost.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well said! I might not get any more than my G2 and my 6P, and my wife's E1. If I want a light that I am sure I beat to he!!, it won't be a surefire! For one thing, it would break my heart to get a scratch on a $180 dollar light. That is why I have almost the entire prodcut lines of Streamlight, Pelican, and Responder. My 3C Brightstar Responder is rated for a 30 foot drop, and only cost me about $30 bucks.
I have a friend and coworker here in my office. He owns a pricey SF 9AN. He dropped it once, it got messed up, and I sent it back to Fountain Valley for him. They made it right. 2 weeks later, he drops it again. Boom, another $30 dollar lamp assembly. He has just about totally changed his mind on his "need" for a high dollar light like that. He went and bought a whole new G2 with batteries for $29.95 instead of buying a lamp assembly.
So, opinions are just that....and every one has them. A lot of guys here are die hard SF fans and will share much more informed opinions than I have offered here, so keep reading and doing your research.
pedalinbob
Flashlight Enthusiast
[ QUOTE ]
KevinL said:
The real magic is in the modular system. Nobody else has a modular system that scales up and down, that can be configured for virtually any purpose imaginable. Mix and match and build your own light for your own needs. Scale up and down, add extenders and batteries, change lamps all the way up to 200 lumens/20 minutes or down to 19 lumens/7 HOURS, jump across technology platforms - LED or incan, have it your way. Not happy with lithiums? Choose the factory stock NiCad or aftermarket lithium ion cells for guilt free lumens. Throw in a turbohead when you need to reach out and ping something. Choose your lanyard or build your own. Choose even the way you hold your light, tactical, traditional, overhand, pencil grip or any of the dozen handgun grips.
That's the reason why I put down $90 on my C2. It has the flat sides, the grip ring and the clip in HA3. Compared to the G2, it has a Pyrex lens and it tolerates heat from higher performance lamps better. It's about as good as the basic platform will get. From there on it's all about the options.
[/ QUOTE ]
wow, that was nicely stated.
ive been looking hard at the E2E, and now i have my sights set upon it more firmly!
Bob
KevinL said:
The real magic is in the modular system. Nobody else has a modular system that scales up and down, that can be configured for virtually any purpose imaginable. Mix and match and build your own light for your own needs. Scale up and down, add extenders and batteries, change lamps all the way up to 200 lumens/20 minutes or down to 19 lumens/7 HOURS, jump across technology platforms - LED or incan, have it your way. Not happy with lithiums? Choose the factory stock NiCad or aftermarket lithium ion cells for guilt free lumens. Throw in a turbohead when you need to reach out and ping something. Choose your lanyard or build your own. Choose even the way you hold your light, tactical, traditional, overhand, pencil grip or any of the dozen handgun grips.
That's the reason why I put down $90 on my C2. It has the flat sides, the grip ring and the clip in HA3. Compared to the G2, it has a Pyrex lens and it tolerates heat from higher performance lamps better. It's about as good as the basic platform will get. From there on it's all about the options.
[/ QUOTE ]
wow, that was nicely stated.
ive been looking hard at the E2E, and now i have my sights set upon it more firmly!
Bob
Well ugrey, it is nothing much actually. I just prefer the bigger flood without shadows in the centre, real smooth beam, and the beautifully engineered Surefire product.
Streamlight and Pelican provide better throw if you are comparing similar model but one thing I noticed though is the beam is so tight it is almost a spotlight than a floodlight. Refocus the reflector for flood and you get a shadow in the centre. Now that is irritating to me.
Why would I continue to buy Surefire since the beam can't out-throw a similar competition? Simply put it, the idea of SF prefocusing the lamp so a user gets a balance between flood and throw is to me an engineering feat. I think SF made lights that has a balance in everything.
One more example, my friend owns a SL TL3 and I an M3. When we need to spot something in the forest, he needs to sweep the light left to right, as for me the M3 brightens up everything in front of me.
I wouldn't condemn the competition brands. No, that would be wrong. All I can say is follow your heart. If you need more throw for less dollars than you would be pleased with Streamlight or Pelican. But if like me when flood and built quality are more important, go for Surefire.
Streamlight and Pelican provide better throw if you are comparing similar model but one thing I noticed though is the beam is so tight it is almost a spotlight than a floodlight. Refocus the reflector for flood and you get a shadow in the centre. Now that is irritating to me.
Why would I continue to buy Surefire since the beam can't out-throw a similar competition? Simply put it, the idea of SF prefocusing the lamp so a user gets a balance between flood and throw is to me an engineering feat. I think SF made lights that has a balance in everything.
One more example, my friend owns a SL TL3 and I an M3. When we need to spot something in the forest, he needs to sweep the light left to right, as for me the M3 brightens up everything in front of me.
I wouldn't condemn the competition brands. No, that would be wrong. All I can say is follow your heart. If you need more throw for less dollars than you would be pleased with Streamlight or Pelican. But if like me when flood and built quality are more important, go for Surefire.
voodoogreg
Flashlight Enthusiast
I am admittedly a real newbie, esp on highend light's. But i have had 3 cop's in the family, and a new LED junkie, so i spend some time at the town police/fire outtfitter, and read alot here at CPF. i know when i first saw my unkle mike's 8nx charger, i was flipped out! I had a magcharger cause he had loved his, and mmany MM's. after a few yr's my cop family members were using mag's streamlight's and pelican's. basically i heard two reason's: they said they get wet and get intermitent or just plain die.( i don't if that mean's bulb or unit, they send them off so i wouldn't think bulb) and dropping one seem's to shake it up. my cuz jimmy had said once "i had a magcharger roll off the roof a dozen times, at worst a broken len's or a bulb, if i drop my SF it's a trip back to the factory" so in edition to the local police shop dropping them from invetory yr's ago, it sound's like they may not be the must tuff light around. sick thing is, there so cool even sexy looking, i still want one! (an 8 or 9 rechargable, and E1 or E2. hell, most of them) anyway my .02 cent's. VDG
Thanks for all the replies. I always learn a few things when I ask a question on this board. I view my flashlights as tools. I want to see something in the dark or I may have to momentarily blind someone. Inside the house my G2 or TL-3 have large, smooth hot spots. Outside, my TL-3 or the Pelican M6 throw farther than any comparable sized Surefires. I have also used my $25, 1 million candlepower Victor spotlight quite a bit. I do miss the combat grip of a Surefire, but police who use rechargeable Surefires do so without a combat grip. Has anyone here been to Surefires Institute? What say you?
Thanks again. I do like my E1 and G2 and I would very much like to replace the E1 with an E2e. I do not see an equal to the E2e's combination of size and brightness. I like Surefire, but for the difference in price, I just don't see a big enough difference in most of their products. All of the above may explain why I have only a few Snap On tools in my roll around tool cabinet and a whole lot of Craftsman tools.
Thanks again. I do like my E1 and G2 and I would very much like to replace the E1 with an E2e. I do not see an equal to the E2e's combination of size and brightness. I like Surefire, but for the difference in price, I just don't see a big enough difference in most of their products. All of the above may explain why I have only a few Snap On tools in my roll around tool cabinet and a whole lot of Craftsman tools.
