Buying a new car- dealing with dealers

robstarr-lite

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Oct 22, 2002
Messages
178
Location
san jose, CA USA
well, recently the insurance company ended up totaling my convertible VW, so decided to buy a new car.

Done this a couple of times before but never a Honda...as we're thinking about the Element model...

So what's the deal with Honda dealers..why do they think their cars are so superior and they are difficult to discuss pricing…some models have incredible markups…but then I live in the bay area.

Even though their lots are full of 04s....Honda Sales people seems to have this attitude allot different than others dealers...

the base price is reasonable, not much of a markup for this particular model... but wanted some accessories and its like pulling teeth getting any final pricing......heck there are only 1/2 dozen or so factory options....


appreciate any suggestions, especially dealing with Honda sales. [ not doing a direct finance or lease, even selling other 2nd, [91 turbo 4 wheel drive Celica ]


oh, not 100% that it has to be this model H...but i need bench type seating as my back is pretty bad ( 3 surgeries/12 years and a 4th possibly in 6 months )....and with 2 kids, i need to use a garden hose to wash out any vehicle (almost daily)!
[ reason for the Element model ]

post or PM is fine....thxs, rob
 

Lebkuecher

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 5, 2003
Messages
1,654
Location
Nashville TN
Good luck with your purchase, I bought a Honda Accord EX from a dealer a few months ago and was very please with how they handled everything. I believe the Honda dealers know that they have one of the best products out there so why bargain. I absolute love my Honda and have had no problems with it and it now has over 73000 thousand miles. When I did my research and read all the reviews and used car reports I just couldn't invest in anything else except for maybe a Toyota. These two companies are going to eventually rule the car industry unless someone else can step up to the plate.
 

3rd_shift

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 9, 2004
Messages
3,337
Location
DFW. TX. U.S.A. Earth
Try this.
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=slv1-&p=bob+elliston
This was the book that did the trick for me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

It got to where I was enjoyng going to dealers just for the free joyrides. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banned2.gif
I finally happened across a white, Ford F350 crewcab longbed XL Powerstroke diesel with just the right options that I wanted.
msrp: $34,100
Out the door: $33,100, 5,99 apr 72 mo., 2400 bucks worth of useless warranty that I later cancelled successfully =$30,700 left to go, with no money down and no trade.

Like I had told the other dealers, "the dealership with the most patience for me has the better chance of winning my business". /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif
One of the worst things you can do is show up with your ducks not neatly organized. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif

#1 financing; talk to your loan officer before shopping. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/poke2.gif
The worse your credit, the harder and more important it is to secure your own financing 1st. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif But do it.
Lift your battered brain and ego up high and seek the best rates anyway. You have rights! Use them. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif
There are may financial institutions, credit unions that will take you under thier wing to get you a set of wheels
#2 Sell the old car yourself, or keep it just in case you decide you don't like the new car. Yes many dealerships will deliver it with a plastic smile.
#3 Do the poor dealership a favor, or two.
buy at the end of the quarter to spare the dealership the inventory tax of hanging onto it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/santa.gif
Is it a car you like, who's inspection sticker shows it has been there for more than a few months? =bargaining power there too.
#4 "Oops we seem to have lost your keys." /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif
Never ever under any circumstance let anyone other than the appraiser have the keys to your trade in. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twakfl.gif
It's not the new car sales staffs' job to sell your car, It's Your's. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Thier job is to sell you a new car anyway they can by ANY means. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin07.gif
When the appraiser is done looking at it, take your keys back and resume negotiations at will. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif
#5 Still don't like the dealership? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
Walk out, leave property and prove to the powers that be at the dealership that your are indeed a flight risk if they don't give you what you want. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif
They should be easier to deal with on your second visit there. www.Westwayford.com certainly was on the second visit. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif
Btw, Westway is a high volume,low overhead, stack-em deap and sell them cheap dealership. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
That's the kind of dealership you want. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
But even Westway /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif me off on my 1st visit there.
Toyota and Honda have those too.
Another way they move so many of thier products onto our streets. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Good luck. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
#6 Oh yeah, another thing. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/huh.gif
You don't have to buy ANY of the "extras and packs" on the day you buy the car. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
You can buy those later if you want to from any number of your sources if you prefer. (usually cheaper that way). /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
Your auto insurance provider, bank, and/or credit union can help you there. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Some manufacturers also can direct sell you thier extended "warranties" and other goodies online for a small savings. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 

3rd_shift

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 9, 2004
Messages
3,337
Location
DFW. TX. U.S.A. Earth
My Mom has an 89' Honda civic 4 door sedan (bought new).
She was a few thousand $$$$ under the msrp., got a good $1000 trade in on her 80' Subaru, and financed with her credit union. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
She did this on her second visit to the dealership after storming out the 1st time a month earlier. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Way to go Mom! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif
She still has it, and it has been a good car. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Even I still like to drive it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 

Arizona_Dan

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Jul 28, 2004
Messages
57
Location
Anthem, Arizona
I highly recommend this website http://www.edmunds.com/

Contains reviews on all autos, good car buying guides and tips, lets you compare retail sticker price with manufacturer's invoice (dealer's cost), and a host of other data. These are all accessed on the home page.

Here's the dedicated page for Honda Elements:
Honda Element

After you review this page, click the red button labeled "Price with Options."

Good luck.
 

Jakpro

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Dec 12, 2001
Messages
137
Location
AZ
One suggestion: pack a lunch!

Dealing to buy a vehicle is one of the most aggravating experiences that I have ever done. I buy a new vehicle every two years.

This year, I called up my local dealer and told him to give me his best price on the truck that I wanted. He is a small town dealer and he beat the city price by $1000. After calculating his cost after dealer holdback, he made $500. I drove it home that afternoon. Prior to contacting him, I had already done all the research and found out all the incentives, rebates, dealer holdbacks, etc. You see-dealer invoice is a JOKE. It is not the actual dealer cost.

Edmunds and Consumer Reports are both excellent resources.
 

robstarr-lite

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Oct 22, 2002
Messages
178
Location
san jose, CA USA
thanks for the good advise....yep, too bad its one of the most aggravating experiences to remember

in 83 i bought a new VW gti...the sales guy finaly brought the price down $200 bucks to make me happy....later after i drove off...i found they removed the floor carpets.....picked it up at night...(didn't EDC back then)

think i was happy!

[think i forgot that mr sales guy!]
 

Saaby

Flashaholic
Joined
Jun 17, 2002
Messages
7,447
Location
Utah
He he, here's our latest car buying deal in a nutshell.

Ken Garff Mitsubishi sent us to Ken Garff Saab to drive the car. Mitsubishi (Stack em' deep and sell em' cheap) was going to buy it from Saab at cost (Same franchise) and sell it to us about $3000 cheaper than Saab's 'firm' price.

Once Saab found out they sold to us for the exact same price Mitsubishi was going to sell at, but they gave us about twice the trade-in on our van and we got more perks (IE our 30k service was covered free of charge.)

Keep trying to figure out where we got screwed, but I really think we came out ahead on this one /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif
 

NeonLights

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 18, 2003
Messages
1,493
Location
Ohio
The last new car we bought was a 2001 Dodge Neon ACR in September of 2001, a few days after 9-11 to be exact. Because of the tragedy in New York they were anxious to sell a car since they hadn't sold anything all week, but we still played hardball.

For starters I had the same car (used) on a weekend test drive from a competing dealer that I drove to the dealer where I bought my car. They could see I was serious about buying a car and was shopping around. After talking to the salesman for five minutes, he acknowledged I knew more about Neons than he did, which was a good sign.

They wanted us to finance through the dealer very badly, but we were planning to go through our credit union. We finally told them if they could give us a lower APR we'd go with them, so they beat the credit union by .5%.

Sticker price on the car was $18,100, and that included a tacky spoiler and graphics package they had added on for about $700 (their cost on the stuff was maybe $100-200). With $2500 cash back we ended buying the car for $13,800, but we got up and were walking out the door twice jsut to prove we weren't going to mess around with their crap. It took about three hours, and we were there until well after closing on a Friday night, but we got the car for a very good price IMO.

-Keith
 

Eugene

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 29, 2003
Messages
1,190
Ha, I played hardall with the wife's Impala. Went to one dealer, talked to them about price then took it for a test drive. Drove it to another dealer with the first dealers tags on it and asked the second dealer to beat the firsts deal. We got a car that was 1 year newer with the 1/2 the miles for the same price.
 

turbodog

Flashaholic
Joined
Jun 23, 2003
Messages
6,425
Location
central time
Dunno about new....

We have a reputable nationwide lease company that we deal with. We've gotten 5 cars in the last 6 years. Usually at a steal.

One was a 2000 dodge intrepid. Bought it in 2001. 15 months old. Almost loaded. Extremely good condition. MSRP $21,500. Blue book @ 15 months was $14-15k. We paid $7,420.

All 5 of the cars have been like this. Drive em a year and still sell them for a profit.
 

modamag

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Messages
2,101
Location
Bay Area, CA
If you have a Cosco membership, you can get most vehicle for $500 over invoice.
Another thing you could do is print out the carsdirect.com price and go to the dealership and negotiate from there.

Me and my wife have been using the "good cop bad cop" tactic for several vehicle and it always works like a charm.

Going to the dealership on Tuesday - Thurday when they have less customer also helps.

The Honda dealership on Capitol Express Way seems to be easier to handle than that of Steven Creeks.

Good Luck
 

robstarr-lite

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Oct 22, 2002
Messages
178
Location
san jose, CA USA
lots of good suggestions and stories.

seems i have some extra reading to do i reckon, and fortunately i was able to get a couple more weeks on the rental, got both the body shop and the insurance to agree to add another 4 more weeks [ due to both draging their feet ].

ensig, thanks for the tip on the costco and dealerships. heck i live 1/2 mile from the capital one...did you buy one thru costco?
how difficult was it....any car too...i thought they limited it to specific basic models.

regards, rob
 

paulr

Flashaholic
Joined
Mar 29, 2003
Messages
10,832
Bring a financial calculator and make sure all the numbers in the financing deal are right. I had a completely happy sales experience buying my 98 Honda. I got a good price (maybe not rock bottom, but the dealer had done me some favors related to my previous car, so I was happy) and not much excessive sales pitch. Total shopping time was basically about 20 minutes (I chose not to bother with a test drive). Then we did the financing, at 3.9% interest which was a good deal at the time. They gave me the loan paperwork, everything looked fine, again a very pleasant experience. But just because I'm a nerd and had a palmtop computer with me, and the palmtop calculator app had financial functions that I figured I'd never get another chance to use, I decided to run through the loan numbers. The monthly payment was about $4 higher than it was supposed to be. I was about to let it go when I realized that over 48 months, that's $200 extra profit for the dealer, so I asked about the discrepancy. The finance manager took the paperwork back and said he'd check into it, and headed back to his office. He came back with some lame story about how he re-did the paperwork with a different version of their loan software (yeah, right) and the payment had came out lower. I calculated it again and it was still too high, but only by 10 cents or so, so I let it go that time. The discrepancy was completely concealed, so there was no way to spot it without a financial calculator or software. Except for that slight adventure, my experience with that dealership has always been pretty good, but I can't help thinking that the loan thing is a systematic scam, and I wonder how widespread it is.
 

3rd_shift

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 9, 2004
Messages
3,337
Location
DFW. TX. U.S.A. Earth
In some states (inc. Tx.), there is no law against refinancing with your bank, or a better credit union to a lower rate anytime you like after the fact. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I did that 2 months ago on my F350.
I went to my other credit union and got a 4.9 apr quote for 60 months.
Then went to the original credit union lienholder of the truck to let them have a try at keeping my business: 3.99 apr. 60 months /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif
I went with option#2 and that lowered my payments from 550 to 423. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
With regards to Edmunds and the other publishers of invoice numbers;
I stopped believing the numbers when some people I know had won a new $28,000 car, then tried to sell it back to the dealership: "We can give you $20,000 for it". /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon8.gif
I have seen the same happen to "won" motorcylcles, boats, etc. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sick.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif The offers were all, well below the published "official" invoice prices for any of them, even after any holdbacks and rebates. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon6.gif
That was when I just threw away the "book" and started doing things my way. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif
 
Top