My Surefire L4 story

TheSteve

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Jun 3, 2004
Messages
162
Location
Western Canada
This may be a bit of a rant, if it is I apologize.

Like many (most?)here I've been a big fan of flashlights for years. I've been reading CPF for around 2 years now, mostly lurking as can be seen by my post count.

Around a year ago my wife noticed I was always talking about flashlights so she decided to buy me one, she selected a Pelican M6 Lithium. She phoned around until she found a place that had one in stock etc, all without me knowing. Needless to say I was very impressed - and I love the flashlight. Since then she has heard me talk more and more about "guilt free lumens", one day she made a point of asking what that meant. So I explained of course... Without going into too much detail she finally figured out I'd like a Surefire LED flashlight - specifically an L4. Once again she took initiative to phone around and try to locate an L4 for me without me even knowing(this is why I love her so much). This time she was less successful though then when she decided to get me a Pelican.(I should note we're in Canada) She looked up the Cdn Surefire dealers, they are all backordered for weeks.(and the pricing is insane - even compared to US retail converted to Cdn dollars) She then phoned Surefire, they are also out of stock on the L4, and then were kind enough to point out that even if they had it in stock they wouldn't ship to Canada. So today I get a phonecall from her at work telling me her story, about how she tried to get me a flashlight but it seems its just not to be.

So I have to ask, who runs Surefire? Do they realize if they made some flashlights people would buy them?

I've decided the new company slogan should be:

Surefire - Smaller, Brighter, Better, Backordered

Now please don't get me wrong, I'm not a bitter type person here. I'm just annoyed that someone would put so much effort into trying to purchase a product and not be able to even get it. So now not only is my wife disappointed she couldn't get me the present she knows I want, but I don't get a flashlight!

I'm going to post a wanted in the B/S/T section as I still want one(even if I think the company is crazy) as I still believe Surefire has the best flashlights, even if they aren't concerned with selling them...

So thats my Surefire L4 story...

Steve

btw, CPF rocks!
 

paulr

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Mar 29, 2003
Messages
10,832
If you want an L4 you can probably find one on BST pretty quickly.
 

Aloft

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May 27, 2004
Messages
290
Location
Bellevue, WA
Steve, I'm still waiting for my L5, ordered in early May (2004, that is. . . but I'm not optimistic). Just got the L6 that I ordered along with it. . . that arrived about 2 weeks ago. I agree thay're top notch flashlights, but even Surefire isn't very good at guessing when their lights will be available. "The L5 and L6 should ship in 30 days, and the U2 should ship in 90 days", said the world class customer service at Surefire. Like I said, that was in early May. Oh well, we all keep ordering them. . .
 

Kiessling

Flashaholic
Joined
Nov 26, 2002
Messages
16,140
Location
Old World
why should SF be crazy?
their lights are so much sought after (military and civilian market) that demand exceeds supply. crazy?

and dito to paul ... in B/S/T you see them on a regular basis.

bernhard
 

McGizmo

Flashaholic
Joined
May 1, 2002
Messages
17,290
Location
Maui
"Surefire - Smaller, Brighter, Better, Backordered"

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif Unfortunately, I think this is a statement of reality and one where buyer as well as seller would wish it were not the case!
 

Mark2

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Apr 10, 2003
Messages
577
Location
Europe
When demand exceeds supply, you need to ramp up production as quickly as possible, because you are losing business each and every day. This is why I hate the argument that "Surefire must concentrate on its military business" when people complain about Surefire's service (availability and customer support). No manager who is worth his pay would say such stupid things. The correct way to act for a company in this situation is of course to grow and take advantage of the additional business that 'begs' to come to it. It's okay to concentrate on the most important things when there is a short-term shortage of resources, but this is not the case here. Anyway, every company can do business as they wish and I am convinced that only competition can change these things.
 

chrisse242

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Dec 12, 2003
Messages
899
Location
Germany
Funny nobody mentioned this: Welcome to cpf, and where did you find that woman? Does she have a sister? Most of us try to convince their girl-friends / wifes / or husbands not to leave them because of flashaholism and your wife actually buys flashlights for you?

Chrisse
 

Prolepsis

Enlightened
Joined
Dec 21, 2003
Messages
577
Location
B.C.
Hi Steve,

If you live near enough to the border, you can, like me, ship products to the US and then bring them across (and pay tax but no duties, since SureFires are made in the USA). Much cheaper than trying to buy the lights from Canadian dealers.

I believe most U.S. CPF dealers have the L4 in stock(?).

I understand where you're coming from, though. I've been waiting for 45 days on an M900A so far. Luckily I'm not really in a rush, I guess.
 

McGizmo

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Location
Maui
"The correct way to act for a company in this situation is of course to grow and take advantage of the additional business that 'begs' to come to it." ~ do we have any indication that this isn't exactly what SF is and has been up to??

"It's okay to concentrate on the most important things when there is a short-term shortage of resources, but this is not the case here. ~ I agree that this is not the case but I suspect that my perception is different than yours. I believe there has been a long term shortage and consequently potential damage from lack of supply could be even greater; more call to shore up the key and root customers which in the case of SF, is, I believe the military. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

This tangent is possibly going beyond the topic at hand and I would guess it could easily become a topic for the UG if certain "players" like myself end up going for another round! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nana.gif I am bailing out early this time! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

symes

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Dec 16, 2003
Messages
204
Location
Raleigh, NC formerly Kent, England
When I contacted SF a while back to check on L5, L6 and U2 availability, they indicated that they were adding large amounts of production capacity but that it would take a while to bring it all on-line.

Just a word on the customer service aspect...I also needed spares for my M6 for a planned trip to Haiti earlier this year and mentioned that to Surefire and they overnighted me my stuff asap.

Yet another casualty of this tiresome 'war' I'm afraid.

L4s are available at quite a few dealers and very frequently available on eBay however.


Symes
 

Size15's

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Joined
Aug 29, 2000
Messages
18,415
Location
Kettering, England
Surefire - Smaller, Brighter, Better, Backordered

Now that is a slogan I'd wear on a t-shirt!

I've quickly read the posts before mine... and I have two major points. Firstly, a wife like yours needs roses, chocolates and diamonds. And secondly, SureFire should take note that there is an "international" market that is begging to be supported.

Al
 

HunterSon

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Jun 29, 2003
Messages
401
Location
The Rock! (NFLD,Canada)
EBAY! There are a few reputable CPF members who sell surefire items on Ebay and will ship to Canada. You will probably find a better price on a used one in the BST forum, but a new one from Ebay is an option.
 

sotto

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 30, 2002
Messages
1,062
Location
Old Bay City, CA
Hi TheSteve:

I feel your pain. The answer here is to simply drop your coins on another fabulous light from any one of a dozen (or so) other manufacturers that are out there. As you know, or will soon find out, SF is not the "be all, end all" of flashlights, although the L4 is very nice. I myself have found great satisfaction in specializing in the smaller, less costly little pocket lightsabers (a la Inova X1--particularly green) that end up giving me far more bang for my buck than my SF L4. If I were you, I'd look really closely at the Inova lights (including the new T and X0 versions) and also the great lights from Peak LED Solutions, who even have a Custom Shop that'll be happy to accomodate your every LED whim (just not Luxeon...yet!). Your thoughtful SO's $$ will go lots lots further and companies like Peak DO care about your time and personal satisfaction. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Have fun.
 

shabbasuraj

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Joined
Nov 27, 2003
Messages
66
[ QUOTE ]
sotto said:
Hi TheSteve:

I feel your pain. The answer here is to simply drop your coins on another fabulous light from any one of a dozen (or so) other manufacturers that are out there. As you know, or will soon find out, SF is not the "be all, end all" of flashlights, although the L4 is very nice. I myself have found great satisfaction in specializing in the smaller, less costly little pocket lightsabers (a la Inova X1--particularly green) that end up giving me far more bang for my buck than my SF L4. If I were you, I'd look really closely at the Inova lights (including the new T and X0 versions) and also the great lights from Peak LED Solutions, who even have a Custom Shop that'll be happy to accomodate your every LED whim (just not Luxeon...yet!). Your thoughtful SO's $$ will go lots lots further and companies like Peak DO care about your time and personal satisfaction. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Have fun.

[/ QUOTE ]

AMEN. Find an alternative flashlight manufacturer. It is no secret that SureFire has mishandled/mismanaged its own supply chain. Military first? Blah blah blah. This is the exact reason as to why other manufacturers are succeeding in the upscale flashlight market that SureFire pioneered. Let your dollars decide who survives and succeeds. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif
 

gadget_lover

Flashaholic
Joined
Oct 7, 2003
Messages
7,148
Location
Near Silicon Valley (too near)
Three points.

1) There are thousands of companies that have expanded due to war efforts who have over extended and gone bankrupt after the war. I will not second guess Surefire without a hell of a lot more info.

2) There are many lights comparable to the L4, though if you are collecting lights it makes no sense to bye something else. Going to B/S/T is probably a smart move.

3) I have a wife who has bought me Surefires, ARCs and other fun toys. She gets a chuckle out of the way I get so excited about making new parts. She even moves the laundry away from my lathe so I can turn stuff without worrying about the chips and oil that fly.

I do buy her roses, chocolates and diamonds. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Daniel
 

Moe

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Joined
May 6, 2004
Messages
88
Location
Germany
I can't help myself, but keep assuming, it's all about supply and demand.
High demand + low supply = high prices.

If surefire doesn't show any interest at all in your money, spend it on some other manufacturer's products.

I don't know exactly, how much the L4 is in Canada (or the US) but in Germany it costs insane 200 Euros and you can get several other good (!) lights for that amount.

Longbow, Inova, Pelican...
 

KevinL

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 10, 2004
Messages
5,866
Location
At World's End
Thank god for the unofficial 'dealers' which carry a lot of SF stuff for the international market. First time I've ever heard "I'm not an authorized dealer" and thought "GREAT!" (the 'authorized' are reluctant to ship overseas). Some enterprising soul is bound to take up the slack.

Check ebay and if all else fails I can give you the contact details. Global Priority rocks /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif

Size15: Time to contact your local T-shirt printer? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif
 

pjandyho

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 29, 2003
Messages
5,500
Location
Singapore
As a photographer, I realized that not a single camera manufacturer was ever backordered on their products. If there are much more photographers than there are flashaholics, then why is Surefire always on backorder? That is not a way to run business.

And to say that they have international orders to fulfill is even more absurd. So does camera manufacturers. Does anyone know that Nikon's pro-range D2H Digital cameras are hand assembled in Japan and are in no way machine assembled? And to think they churned out 5000 pieces every month to cater to international market is no small feat when one realizes that there are 2700 parts to be assembled into a camera.
 

JohnJ80

Enlightened
Joined
Nov 26, 2003
Messages
300
Location
Minnesota
I do a fair amount of high tech electronics business with DoD customers (US Military suppliers). Most DoD contracts have a DoD priority on them. There is a war on, and there are tactical needs. If Surefire has such a contract, then if a DoD priority is asserted by the government, they have no choice but to support that first. There is more of that going on right now for certain needs.

No business wants to leave customers who are begging for products, stranded with out what they want. I suspect there is a good reason here why this is a problem. SF has been a decent company, they stand behind their products and I am sure that they are doing what is in their capability and resources (read 'cash') to accomplish.

FYI, we do care packages to military units from my small company - its sort of our way of supporting our guys overseas. The one thing they are asking for right now are Surefire flashlights - and they are hard for them to get through their supply chain. So, I suspect that this supports the speculation that SF is probably capacity limited and probably due to DoD priorities.

J
 

McGizmo

Flashaholic
Joined
May 1, 2002
Messages
17,290
Location
Maui
Since I have been a member of CPF, SF has had shortages in supply. I can recall early on being miffed because I was working on a set of 5W cyan Turbos for the Skunk gang and we had a heck of a time getting the KT1's (Darell bore the brunt of this as I recall). At that time, there were some dealers discounting heavily and some selling at full pop. The price had no bearing on short supply. I also recall that back in those days, any one placing a "beef" about short supply here on CPF was kindly reprimanded with comments like let those in harms way get the stuff first! I can recall feeling a bit guilty considering my *need* for a turbo to host a Cyan 5W compared to a soldiers need for the same turbo. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Well from the little insight I have into SF's current position in regards to production scheduling, supply and capacities, I am comfortable with where their priorities lay. To suggest that a business doesn't care about lost sales or customers who want to buy just doesn't track; sorry.
 
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