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Thread: Fine tuning my Mc E2S

  1. #1
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    Default Fine tuning my Mc E2S

    Fine tuning my Mc E2S

    I installed the Mc E2S kit in my X3T's Z52 LOTC. used the stock oring and didn't realize it needed to be lubed. 1st problem encountered was switch action was too limited to allow hi until low was engaged.

    Tried to remove switch assembly to an avail. beat it, stuck in a vise etc. still stuck. OK remove bottom assembly and drilled two small holes in plastic locking ring.

    Ok after some cussing removed the locking ring and switch assembly. All is well. matched oring until right size to allow better range of movement.

    Next problem: to turn off light required unscrewing tailcap into an almost unsecured position. Also almost a 360 degree turn was required to go from low to high.

    Solution was to insert a thin custom washer under the circuit board. This raise the contact point of board and reduces the gap between low and high. washer is only .015in

    the thin washer needed to be clipped to allow room for two resisters.

    End result is Tailcap rests more secure, now tailcap engages low to high in 180 degrees and low and high is easily accessable from off position.

    Edit: after doing this mod with the washer, it dawn upon me that sanding .015 off top of tube would do the same thing. only you can remove the washer if you don't like it.


    Edit: recommended way to do this mod is to sand down post. Go slow... you can always remove more material VS adding a washer to build up like above.

    I prefer ending up with 1/2 turn from low to high, but others are prefering 1/4 turn from low to high.

    your call...



  2. #2
    *Flashaholic* McGizmo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fine tuning my Mc E2S

    CY,
    SOrry you had some trouble there but I like your solutions. I had considered closing the gap between Low and High but with the tolerances in the machined parts, I was concerned about the gap getting too tight. You are right about reducing the the height of the post on the main body as a sure way of reducing the gap between high and low.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Fine tuning my Mc E2S

    fine tuning by lightly sanding post is a better solution. if you go too deep, add a thin washer to reverse.

    I'm leaving my switch alone. Action now feels simular to L1-PR-T switch.

  4. #4
    Flashaholic* tylerdurden's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fine tuning my Mc E2S

    I'm looking to similarly tune the E2S in one of my Z52's, but I'm a little confused. What part is this "post" or "tube" you're sanding?

  5. #5
    *Flashaholic* McGizmo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fine tuning my Mc E2S

    Tyler,
    If you want to "close the gap" between the button rim and the top of the PCB which makes your "high" contact, you can either shorten the height of the the post or tube that the PCB slides up and down on, or you can carefully deepen the hole that the post goes into.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Fine tuning my Mc E2S

    Sanding the post is the cleanest way to go. But sand very slowly. .015in or aprox 4 sheets of typewriter paper is all you need to remove.

    I would go even less and try for fit.

  7. #7
    Flashaholic* tylerdurden's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fine tuning my Mc E2S

    I get it. I had to take the switch apart before I saw what you were talking about. Yeah, this works much better now. Thanks.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Fine tuning my Mc E2S

    tyler, thanks for the feedback

  9. #9
    *Flashaholic* McGizmo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fine tuning my Mc E2S

    The key is to have enough displacement or increase in required pressure to insure that one can easily select low or high without accidentally shifting into high, inadvertantly. As it has turned out, I believe the aditional force in compressing both the contact spring as well as the PCB stand off spring does allow for a reduced physical displacement from the original design. However, given the possible variations in the tolerance stack, I don't think I will change the dimension call out on the components. This is not to mention that there are probably already more of these components made than will ever be used! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif[/img] I leave it to the individual to fine tune their switch as they desire. It is always easier to remove material than add it back!

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Fine tuning my Mc E2S

    a possible solution for parts already on hand. make a go/no-go guage or use digital calipers. lightly sand to fit.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Fine tuning my Mc E2S

    I tried the washer but didn't realize it needed to be conductive at first [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    So I replaced it with the stiff wire from a twist tie wrapped around the post beneath the resistor board. Made the switch go from off to high in 180 degrees and much easier to use.

    Thanks, cy!

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Fine tuning my Mc E2S

    almost forgot about this thread [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

    recommended way to do mod is sand post down. go slow.. you can always take off more material. VS pita of adding thickness back via washer.

    first post edited:




  13. #13
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    Default Re: Fine tuning my Mc E2S

    Does this take care of the "hard-to-press-and-hold" 2-stage button? Seems my Mc2ES is painful to press and hold for any longer than 5 secs on the second stage. Or is it just me?

  14. #14
    *Flashaholic* McGizmo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fine tuning my Mc E2S

    John_KK,
    The "hair trigger" does make it much easier to get to "high" with less spring compression and consequently less force.

  15. #15
    Flashaholic* Lips's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fine tuning my Mc E2S

    I just ordered a FT for a light. Have not received it yet but I think I read somewhere that the FT's were more of a hair trigger than some of the other Mc E2s. Is that correct or incorrect.

    Also in the picture above with the sandpaper, I assume that is the tube that would need to be filed. You know what happens when you make assumptions! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/whoopin.gif[/img]

    Thanks

  16. #16
    Flashaholic* Lips's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fine tuning my Mc E2S

    Update My FT looked a little different than the pictures above?

    My FT was so uncomfortable to use on the High setting I took it off my flash light. Way too hard to press and hold for any length of time.I took a chance, played with it for an hour, cut down both springs (large one a lot,small one very-very little). Now it is a hair trigger and very soft on low and high.

    Can't live without it! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif[/img]

  17. #17
    *Flashaholic* McGizmo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fine tuning my Mc E2S

    Lips,
    The FT should have a hair trigger main body. From your description, it sounds as if you may have inadvertantly got a regular main body. Your's is the first complaint I am aware of of the FT being difficult to operate. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif[/img]

    At any rate, glad you were able to tweak it to your satisfaction! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

  18. #18

    Default Re: Fine tuning my Mc E2S

    Here's what I did. I have a McE2S regular style, that lets my L4 stand candle-stick mode. I cut the big spring down a bit at a time. Now the first stage comes on very easily, hair trigger, perfect. The all-on stage is still quite difficult although easier than before (white thumb syndrome [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] )

    What should I do? Continue cutting the spring down, or something else?

    Thank you!

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Fine tuning my Mc E2S

    don't cut the spring down at all.

    sand the post down only, very slowly. you'll need a feeler gauge. look at the picture, it shows you where to measure and what thickness guage to use.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Fine tuning my Mc E2S

    [ QUOTE ]
    cy said:
    don't cut the spring down at all.

    sand the post down only, very slowly. you'll need a feeler gauge. look at the picture, it shows you where to measure and what thickness guage to use.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I can't make head or tail of this photo (no pun intended).

    If I take the spring of, there is a little post inside the larger metal circle. Is this the post I should sand down a little bit?

  21. #21
    *Flashaholic* McGizmo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fine tuning my Mc E2S

    Let me see if I can help.



    In the cut away drawing above, the part that is being discussed which you can file down or shorten is the main body. If you notice the top of it where the button mates to it, this stands the button away from the resistor PCB. By filing the top down, the button will be closer to the PCB and require less force and displacement to contact the PCB (high level occurs at this point).

  22. #22
    Flashaholic* Lips's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fine tuning my Mc E2S

    My problem with the tail cap I received was mainly the pressure required to keep it in high mode was very-very uncomfortable to use. If you moved your hand around it bounced from high to low and required more pressure to compensate.


    FT - Flat Top tail cap must be made different because mine looks different than the one pictured (CY Photo). As Don said FT designed with more of a hair trigger though.

    Don can you clarify if these switches have different internals. FT vs others


    Cutting the springs lowers the pressure required to hold on high or low. Also some to do with shortness of stroke to turn light on but more so with force required to turn on.

    big spring = low
    small spring = high

    Trim too much you will have to stretch springs or get new ones. I trimmed my big spring too much because I first thought it controlled the low. Had to stretch it a little. My big spring was so hard I had to cut it with a dremmel. I trimmed and smoothed edge so it would not dig into the battery.

    I cut the small spring very little and that did the trick for high.

    You can tighten or loosen the boot ring that is in the threads to give some adjustment and light still stands on end.


    Tail cap is on a e1e with KL4. Now functions with very light pressure for low and light pressure for high with comfortable distance in between settings. In other words you don't bounce from low to high or high to low.


    - If you take the tailcap off you have to play with it a bit to get it set just right. (battery goes in top anyway)

    - Because I trimmed my large spring a little too much tailcap did not work as smoothly on another light my e2l.

    - 30 ohm res gives me slightly brighter light & better spill than my 2x photon freedom. Perfect for me on the KL4

    I only spent an hour with this switch so I am posting this because it worked for me. I may have the whole thing backwords [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

  23. #23
    *Flashaholic* McGizmo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fine tuning my Mc E2S

    Lips,
    The FT and SFT have a different button (shorter) and the main body's stem has been shortened, reducing the travel required to get from low to high. The main bodys look the same but would not measure the same in total height. Springs and the PCB are the same in both switches. As you mentioned, the FT and SFT have buttons that are so short that they do not have an O-ring retainer and will come out freely when the tail cap is removed.

    When you push the switch in, you are compressing the battery contact spring at all times and the further you push the more resistance and effort is required. Once you push the switch far enough for the resistor PCB to contact the rear lip of the battery tube, you have achieved low output. further depression of the button continues to compress the contact spring but now you are also pushing the main body through the resistor PCB (it's now stopped on the battery tube) and you are compressing the switch contact seperator spring as well (additional effort). The combination of displacement and additional force required add to achieve a tactile sense of where you are and help to keep from going to far and hitting the high when you only want low.

    There are variations from switch to switch and light to light and person to person which make some of these switches very acceptable to the user and for others, too much of an effort for prolonged use in momentary. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif[/img] The mechanics are really rather simple but it sure took me a bunch of head scratching to come up with the design from the get go. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] The springs as well as dimensions can be tweaked by the end user for fine tuning. Reaming out the bore in the jam nut and removing the retaining O-ring can often enhance the ease of activation as well.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Fine tuning my Mc E2S

    white thumb white thumb white thumb

    I will have to examine this better...I appreciate the explanation...

  25. #25
    Flashaholic* Anglepoise's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fine tuning my Mc E2S

    Seems an awful amount of work to perfect something that is already perfected.
    I would suspect that Lip's problem is not spring related but button 'O' ring sticking.
    Temporarily remove the Button 'O' ring ( see photo ^^^ ) and see if that changes anything. If that O ring is not siting right in the nylon ring, it can add considerable resistance.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Fine tuning my Mc E2S

    I can't even seem to remove the switch from the external housing...I am using a needlenose...I don't want to break anything...

  27. #27
    Flashaholic* Lips's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fine tuning my Mc E2S

    I read about the orings being a possible problem. I lubed em up and moved them around - no help

    I think most of my "white thumb" problem was the small spring in the FT model being a too stiff. Once the low is engage as Don explains above the resistance and displacement is left to the smaller spring. Could be all the springs are not exactly alike.

    I can only say this for sure, my switch was very uncomfortable & ineffective to hold for any length of time.

    I am going to get another one for another light and see. Man I love that High - Low.

  28. #28
    *Flashaholic* McGizmo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fine tuning my Mc E2S

    Remove the contact spring, grab the socket head screw head with the needle nose pliers and pull it outwards while also pushing the button in. The retaining O-ring is not wanting to pop through the jam nut. As David has suggested, it is likely that most of the problems encontered with these switches tend to be related to smooth and free passage of the button through the jam nut. The retaining O-ring in some cases starts to press against the nut when you are attempting High so you have this pressure to overcome as well as that of the springs. In retrospect, I am sorry I included the retaining O-ring in the design. It only provides a pseudo lock out and has been problematic on occasion. You don't need it and it may giveyou some grief.

  29. #29

    Default Re: Fine tuning my Mc E2S

    I finally got things apart and did the spring shortening and it is much better now. Almost perfect. Thanks!

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Fine tuning my Mc E2S

    If you have trouble getting the switch apart due to oring's lack of lube.

    A simple way to get switch apart is to carefully drill two small holes in plastic locking ring. then unscrew with snap-ring pliers.

    EZ as pie [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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