PR-T-DB917 + L4 + McE2S-60...electrical readings

luxlover

Banned
Joined
Feb 17, 2004
Messages
3,223
Location
Brooklyn, New York
I am not sure what the downboy 917 circuit in my PR-T bezel, does to the voltage and the current levels coming out of the two batteries in my L4 body with a McE2S-60 tailcap switch?

To determine this myself, I did some basic multitester measurements of the bezel in both low and high levels. Keep in mind that these figures apply to the battery usage before the downboy's effect on the TYOJ Luxeon III in the bezel.....
Voltage (unloaded) = 5.99V
Voltage (low level) = 2.80V
Voltage (high level) = 4.82V
Current (low level) = 0.04A
Current (high level) = 0.98A
Wattage (low level) = 0.11W
Wattage (high level) = 4.72W

After removing the lens housing, I went as far as I could to measure the same parameters at the Luxeon emitter's tabs. I could only get the voltages across the emitter's tabs. To get current readings, I would have had to disconnect a wire from a Luxeon emitter's tab, and placed the ammeter leads in between the wire and the tab. This would have been far too risky for me, so I passed having just measured the voltages.....
Voltage across the emitter's tabs (low level) = 2.73V
Voltage across the emitter's tabs (high level) = 3.52V

I would have liked to find out the current drawn by the Luxeon at each level, so that I would then be able to determine the wattage that the Luxeon has been subjected to. I have read that the 60 ohm resistor board prevents the downboy from regulating the current at low level. That is why the battery voltage reading at low, is similar to the Luxeon's voltage reading at low. But notice that the Luxeon voltage at high, has dropped to 3.52V from a 4.82V at the batteries. I think that this is the downboy doing it's thing! I am not sure if the current, regulated by the downboy917, is exactly 0.917A? If it is, then the Luxeon at high, is being subjected to 3.52V x 0.917A = 3.22W. This is close enough to the Luxeon's rating, to make me feel safe.
 

McGizmo

Flashaholic
Joined
May 1, 2002
Messages
17,290
Location
Maui
Re: PR-T-DB917 + L4 + McE2S-60...electrical readin

Luxlover,
These numbers sound about right. I would like to point out that calling the Luxeon III a three watt as many do is misleading since the specs are based on current to the LED and yet the Vf can vary enough that the actual power can range a considerable amount. From a few bench tests I have done where I measured the current to the LED, I have seen as much as 5% variation from designed current and actual measured current. In any case, I believe your LED is being driven below the 1000 mA limit of the Luxeon spec sheet. The reason I steered clear of the DB1000 was due to seeing a few show around 1050mA to the LED. Certainly many are driving the III's at greater levels but the PR-T is not a Mag 3D! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

Now that you feel safe, I hope you can use the light! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

luxlover

Banned
Joined
Feb 17, 2004
Messages
3,223
Location
Brooklyn, New York
Re: PR-T-DB917 + L4 + McE2S-60...electrical readin

I am just a "wee bit" shy of feeling safe, Don. What I will need before that happens, is a confirmation that my Luxeon III is not being "overdriven." So if I have a measured voltage of 3.52V across the Luxeon leads on high level, and the downboy is doing it's job by providing a 0.917A current, then 3.52 x 0.917 = 3.23W. Does this make my Luxeon III, which you stated is not necessarily a 3 watt device, "overdriven?"
 

McGizmo

Flashaholic
Joined
May 1, 2002
Messages
17,290
Location
Maui
Re: PR-T-DB917 + L4 + McE2S-60...electrical readin

Luxlover,

Luxeon states that with proper heat sinking that the Lux III can be driven at 1000 mA. Now I maintain that your LED in the PR-T-917 is driven at a constant current level below 1000mA. You keep focusing on watts. Fine. Look at the Lumileds spec sheets and pick the least efficient LED in terms of Vf. Now take that Vf and multiply it by 1000 mA and tell me how many watts you get! This example is still within Lumiled's specs!!!!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

If you are still just a "wee bit" shy of feeling safe, PLEASE send the PR-T-DB917 back to me for a full refund including postage!

Let me try one more way. Lumileds defines the drive current as just that, the the drive current. On the Lux III, they discuss both 750 and 1000 mA constant current levels of drive. There is no mention of a power or wattage limitation because this varies too greatly with the Vf's of the LED's.
 

Darell

Flashaholic
Joined
Nov 14, 2001
Messages
18,644
Location
LOCO is more like it.
Re: PR-T-DB917 + L4 + McE2S-60...electrical readin

Lux -

Don said it best... but I'll trya a nutshell approach.

The "3W" designation is simply a ballpark way to compare the power-handling characteristics of an emitter. 1W isn't really 1W, and since a 5W is 4x1W, it should be obvious that 5W isn't a 5W either! What you have is within the mfg's tolerances.
 

Kiessling

Flashaholic
Joined
Nov 26, 2002
Messages
16,140
Location
Old World
Re: PR-T-DB917 + L4 + McE2S-60...electrical readin

Hey Jeff !
Take it easy man, this is allright and just as Lumileds intended it to be. And the PR-T does an excellent job of heatsinking the emitter.
There are zillions of us who use variations of that theme with a great success!
bernhard
 

Darell

Flashaholic
Joined
Nov 14, 2001
Messages
18,644
Location
LOCO is more like it.
Re: PR-T-DB917 + L4 + McE2S-60...electrical readin

[ QUOTE ]
Kiessling said:
There are zillions of us who use variations of that theme with a great success!
bernhard

[/ QUOTE ]
You exaggerate! My daughter will tell you that there are only a gillion of us with PR heads.
 

K-T

*Moderator*
Joined
Mar 7, 2002
Messages
3,537
Location
Germany
[ QUOTE ]
luxlover said:
I am not sure what the downboy 917 circuit in my PR-T bezel, does to the voltage and the current levels coming out of the two batteries in my L4 body with a McE2S-60 tailcap switch?
...

[/ QUOTE ]

So why don't you leave it the way it is and trust someone who knows his stuff? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif
 

luxlover

Banned
Joined
Feb 17, 2004
Messages
3,223
Location
Brooklyn, New York
Re: PR-T-DB917 + L4 + McE2S-60...electrical readin

Don,

Now I really don't feel "safe." You want my light back? Did you say a full bona fide refund, including shipping? What are going to do with it, that I cannot do with it? Therefore read my lips......This light is mine and will always be mine!!! Get your own light!!!

On a serious note, I have seen the specs on the Lumileds website here... Luxeon III page and I agree that my unit is not being overdriven. When I take off my shoes and count, I realize that the 917mA current is lower than the maximum current rating of 1,000mA. I am truly at peace.

Darell,
Thank you for the elaboration on wattage ratings of 1 watt and 5 watt Luxeons. A good lesson for me. Your daughter is right about how many of us own a PR-T bezel!

Bernhard,
Thank you for the pep talk. You know how hard it is to get a bogus prescription for Xanax?

I realize that my issues are caused by inexperience and not stupidity. I'm young, I'll learn. One thing is clear to me. If I didn't write posts here in CPF, and benefit from the experiences of all of you, then my brain would be smooth and I would know nothing about LED lights. I thank you all for the education you have given me from the comfort of my keyboard.

Al,
My bezel is LED based, and my issue is about the electrical parameters of it's contents. What forum would you like it to be in? Anyway, I am satisfied with the feedback, and I will move on.

Luxlover
 

luxlover

Banned
Joined
Feb 17, 2004
Messages
3,223
Location
Brooklyn, New York
Re: PR-T-DB917 + L4 + McE2S-60...electrical readin

Sorry I missed you when I wrote the post just before you, K-T. You are right. Danke!
 

luxlover

Banned
Joined
Feb 17, 2004
Messages
3,223
Location
Brooklyn, New York
Re: PR-T-DB917 + L4 + McE2S-60...electrical readin

I must agree with you on this one, mate. The McGizmo Forum is the proper home. I will post my future messages on his products, at that location. Thank's for the heads up.

Don. Keep an eye out for me......
 

K-T

*Moderator*
Joined
Mar 7, 2002
Messages
3,537
Location
Germany
Re: PR-T-DB917 + L4 + McE2S-60...electrical readin

[ QUOTE ]
luxlover said:
Sorry I missed you when I wrote the post just before you, K-T. You are right. Danke!

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't get me wrong - I was not trying to offend you but and I am not an LED expert but I trust Don on his stuff. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Al, I have no clue what you are talking about. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif
 

luxlover

Banned
Joined
Feb 17, 2004
Messages
3,223
Location
Brooklyn, New York
Re: PR-T-DB917 + L4 + McE2S-60...electrical readin

K-T,
You did nothing wrong. You have known for a long time, how brutally honest and knowledgeable Don has been, and is today. I have had exactly four interactions with him, and they have been wonderful experiences on the human level, as well as the product level. I just got off the phone with him, and he gave me a huge amount of info on Luxeon emitters. My post was not one of mistrust for Don or anyone else. I realize that I need to learn the ropes about Luxeons, faster. By the way, Al was refering to Don's McGizmo Forum.

Al,
I wish to partially retract my statement that submitting similar posts on Don's McGizmo Forum is the way to go. My issues with Don's homemade bezel concerned the Luxeon III emitter's electrical characteristics. Whether the emitter is in a McGizmo device or a SureFire device, shouldn't matter at all. In the future, if I should have an issue with one of Don's products that cannot be applied to any other light, then I will use his forum exclusively. From now on, I will be careful what I write about. I do wish to post in the LED Forum, when general Luxeon issues are being dealt with. The McGizmo Forum is a new one, which has had limited exposure since it's inception around 8/20/04. If I had submitted my original post there, it would not have been seen by the general LED population, and I believe that the quality feedback I have been given, would have been limited.
 

McGizmo

Flashaholic
Joined
May 1, 2002
Messages
17,290
Location
Maui
Re: PR-T-DB917 + L4 + McE2S-60...electrical readin

LuxLover,
Points well stated and made. Thanks. I challenge you and the other relative newcommers to not only be students of the LED lights but teachers as well. With every wave of newcommers, similar questions are asked and the baton needs to pass from hand to hand. It is unfortunate but understandable that some of the graybeards have chosen not to come forward for the upteenth time to answer the same question once again. Ihave seen newer members take up the torch and fill in to a reasonable extent. However CPF has grown so much that some of the baton passing has stopped or so it would seem. There is so much general and useful information and enlightening observations that are literally timeless but this wealth is buried almost immediately and not contained in a form that lends itself to ongoing threads or sticky's.

To a great extent, CPF has become a daily soap and heaven help the newcommer! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

OK, enough of this OT rant and it is not directed at you specifically jeff!
 

Size15's

Flashaholic
Joined
Aug 29, 2000
Messages
18,415
Location
Kettering, England
Re: PR-T-DB917 + L4 + McE2S-60...electrical readin

JB,

I wasn't actually intending my question to be answered by you anyway... I was taking a shot at both Don and Darell

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nana.gif
 

Bushman

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 8, 2002
Messages
1,851
Re: PR-T-DB917 + L4 + McE2S-60...electrical readin

Got to love that British humour. Uh HUH!
 
Top