GarageBoy
Flashlight Enthusiast
Is there an advantage to permenantly mounting a bulb to the reflector, a la Surefire P60/61/90/91? The MN10 creates more light than the P90, so I don't see the advantage
Advantage to bulb and reflector assemblies?
- Thread starter GarageBoy
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jtivat
Flashlight Enthusiast
Reflectors can yellow or even brown over time with heat. Also if you blow a lamp or drop one while it is on you can also damage the reflector. The MN10 puts out more lumens b/c it is a larger reflector and Surefire rates the amount of light coming from the bezel not the bulb.
JT
JT
Spacemarine
Enlightened
Why does a larger reflector put out more lumens? I thought that a larger reflector puts out more candlepower but the lumens stay the same.
maybe the larger reflector helps to push the lumens out of the bezel of the flashlight where the bulb is mounted.
imagine i 3D gaglite without the reflector unit but the bezel on the head. the bulb will produce its rated lumens. but out of the head will only come out a very small amount of lumens. it is really difficult to explain.
imagine i 3D gaglite without the reflector unit but the bezel on the head. the bulb will produce its rated lumens. but out of the head will only come out a very small amount of lumens. it is really difficult to explain.
GarageBoy
Flashlight Enthusiast
yes, so why doesn't SF abandon the P series and use the improved MN series
[ QUOTE ]
GarageBoy said:
Is there an advantage to permenantly mounting a bulb to the reflector, a la Surefire P60/61/90/91? The MN10 creates more light than the P90, so I don't see the advantage
[/ QUOTE ]
It's just Surefire's way of making you part with even more of your money.
This is a pet peave of mine /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to purchase a reflector separately if it did happen to yellow or crack.
GarageBoy said:
Is there an advantage to permenantly mounting a bulb to the reflector, a la Surefire P60/61/90/91? The MN10 creates more light than the P90, so I don't see the advantage
[/ QUOTE ]
It's just Surefire's way of making you part with even more of your money.
This is a pet peave of mine /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to purchase a reflector separately if it did happen to yellow or crack.
jtivat
Flashlight Enthusiast
But the MN lamps still cost as much or more as the P series lamps. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
js
Flashlight Enthusiast
The advantage of bulb/reflector assys is that you are (or should be) assured of a perfectly focused beam, and it simplifies the mechanical and electrical connections of the light body and head.
The MN series of lamps from SF simply separates the reflector, and lamp/spring assy into separate assemblies. Obviously, an M (M3T, M4, M6) series head is a LOT more sophisticated and expensive than a 6P bezel. You wouldn't want to have to throw one of those away every time a lamp blew. With the 6P and C2, D2, etc. lights, the reflector is so small that it probably doesn't add much to the cost of the LA. With a 2.5 or 3 inch reflector, it's a different story.
All the SF lamps are expensive because they all have inner and outer springs and have been pre-focused very precisely. Not to mention the high quality xenon filled halogen lamp itself. This spring connection is part of the M series shock isolation, and is not just a way to make us part with more of our money.
All of SF's reflectors are machined from a piece of solid aluminum. They are not spun reflectors. You have to pay more for this.
And, in my experience, it shows in the quality of the beam. Money talks, and plenty of it says the SF is worth it. Others disagree, of course, and that's fine.
The other advantage to this method (as opposed to a pedestal with a bi-pin or PR socket) is that it keeps the heat away from the rest of the light better. And there's no pedestal or socket to melt.
The only disadvantage is an inability to focus the beam.
I took a hybrid approach in my TigerLight Upgrade project. You can read about it in my Fixture-ring lamp potting thread if you're interested.
The MN series of lamps from SF simply separates the reflector, and lamp/spring assy into separate assemblies. Obviously, an M (M3T, M4, M6) series head is a LOT more sophisticated and expensive than a 6P bezel. You wouldn't want to have to throw one of those away every time a lamp blew. With the 6P and C2, D2, etc. lights, the reflector is so small that it probably doesn't add much to the cost of the LA. With a 2.5 or 3 inch reflector, it's a different story.
All the SF lamps are expensive because they all have inner and outer springs and have been pre-focused very precisely. Not to mention the high quality xenon filled halogen lamp itself. This spring connection is part of the M series shock isolation, and is not just a way to make us part with more of our money.
All of SF's reflectors are machined from a piece of solid aluminum. They are not spun reflectors. You have to pay more for this.
And, in my experience, it shows in the quality of the beam. Money talks, and plenty of it says the SF is worth it. Others disagree, of course, and that's fine.
The other advantage to this method (as opposed to a pedestal with a bi-pin or PR socket) is that it keeps the heat away from the rest of the light better. And there's no pedestal or socket to melt.
The only disadvantage is an inability to focus the beam.
I took a hybrid approach in my TigerLight Upgrade project. You can read about it in my Fixture-ring lamp potting thread if you're interested.
GarageBoy
Flashlight Enthusiast
Err, now I feel bad for tossing them away
ALL components of the bulb assembly that serve to maintain precision focus, thermal protection etc., can easily be made a component of the head assembly instead, and without compromising beam quality etc. There is no obstacle to this design that cannot be overcome. The initial cost of the entire flashlight may be slightly higher (if at all), but you'd save a lot of money in the long run. It would be hard for Surefire to justify a $20 +/- bulb replacement if all you received was the bulb itself.
The decision to make the bulb, with all its attached components, one assembly was most likely not an engineering decision. It was a marketing decision. I don't claim to be an engineering or marketing expert, but I've been around long enough to understand most of the tactics of capitalism and free enterprise. Surefire, along with many other manufacturers, has just figured out a way to apply this tactic to flashlights...and without some consumers even realizing it.
This is by no means an attack on Surefire or anyone who has ever purchased one of their products. This is just one of the drawbacks IMO. There are many other things that make these types of lights, by most accounts, excellent flashlights to have /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif.
BTW, if anyone knows of a flashlight that is perfect in every aspect, please let me know /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif.
The decision to make the bulb, with all its attached components, one assembly was most likely not an engineering decision. It was a marketing decision. I don't claim to be an engineering or marketing expert, but I've been around long enough to understand most of the tactics of capitalism and free enterprise. Surefire, along with many other manufacturers, has just figured out a way to apply this tactic to flashlights...and without some consumers even realizing it.
This is by no means an attack on Surefire or anyone who has ever purchased one of their products. This is just one of the drawbacks IMO. There are many other things that make these types of lights, by most accounts, excellent flashlights to have /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif.
BTW, if anyone knows of a flashlight that is perfect in every aspect, please let me know /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif.
jtivat
Flashlight Enthusiast
[ QUOTE ]
flashlite said:
ALL components of the bulb assembly that serve to maintain precision focus, thermal protection etc., can easily be made a component of the head assembly instead, and without compromising beam quality etc. There is no obstacle to this design that cannot be overcome. The initial cost of the entire flashlight may be slightly higher (if at all), but you'd save a lot of money in the long run. It would be hard for Surefire to justify a $20 +/- bulb replacement if all you received was the bulb itself.
The decision to make the bulb, with all its attached components, one assembly was most likely not an engineering decision. It was a marketing decision. I don't claim to be an engineering or marketing expert, but I've been around long enough to understand most of the tactics of capitalism and free enterprise. Surefire, along with many other manufacturers, has just figured out a way to apply this tactic to flashlights...and without some consumers even realizing it.
This is by no means an attack on Surefire or anyone who has ever purchased one of their products. This is just one of the drawbacks IMO. There are many other things that make these types of lights, by most accounts, excellent flashlights to have /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif.
BTW, if anyone knows of a flashlight that is perfect in every aspect, please let me know /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have too disagree both the P series and MN series are far superior to any other design I have used. Bi-pin bulbs just plain suck, they move very easily and come out of focus and PR base never get focused to begin with.
flashlite said:
ALL components of the bulb assembly that serve to maintain precision focus, thermal protection etc., can easily be made a component of the head assembly instead, and without compromising beam quality etc. There is no obstacle to this design that cannot be overcome. The initial cost of the entire flashlight may be slightly higher (if at all), but you'd save a lot of money in the long run. It would be hard for Surefire to justify a $20 +/- bulb replacement if all you received was the bulb itself.
The decision to make the bulb, with all its attached components, one assembly was most likely not an engineering decision. It was a marketing decision. I don't claim to be an engineering or marketing expert, but I've been around long enough to understand most of the tactics of capitalism and free enterprise. Surefire, along with many other manufacturers, has just figured out a way to apply this tactic to flashlights...and without some consumers even realizing it.
This is by no means an attack on Surefire or anyone who has ever purchased one of their products. This is just one of the drawbacks IMO. There are many other things that make these types of lights, by most accounts, excellent flashlights to have /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif.
BTW, if anyone knows of a flashlight that is perfect in every aspect, please let me know /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have too disagree both the P series and MN series are far superior to any other design I have used. Bi-pin bulbs just plain suck, they move very easily and come out of focus and PR base never get focused to begin with.
SilverFox
Flashaholic
Hello Flashlite,
I suggest you check out Jim Sexton's TigerLight improvement thread. Jim is moving us a lot closer to perfection at a reasonable price.
Tom
I suggest you check out Jim Sexton's TigerLight improvement thread. Jim is moving us a lot closer to perfection at a reasonable price.
Tom
I am not going to repeat all the stuff said here so I just say: I agree with what js and jtivat. Also notice that any new SureFire flashlight doesn't have the reflector-bulb combination anymore. The P60/61 and P90/91 are very old but successful designs. Some time back most of SureFire's lights were based on the idea of having a prefocused lampassembly unit. Engineering possibilities have made huge progress since the P-series first hit the market.
In addition I think the reflector-bulb units have one huge advantage: it makes it harder to touch the glassbody by accident and thus reduces the risk of blown/exploding bulbs. Finger grease/sweat is the number one reason for exploding bulbs in my opinion!
In addition I think the reflector-bulb units have one huge advantage: it makes it harder to touch the glassbody by accident and thus reduces the risk of blown/exploding bulbs. Finger grease/sweat is the number one reason for exploding bulbs in my opinion!
bwaites
Flashlight Enthusiast
Jim's solution is the best one to date, but requires time to make sure you have adjusted the focus to best possible and then tightening down the set screw.
Unfortunately, that process is not very easily done under stress, and Surefires way works much better in the field.
Jim has done tremendous work on the TL project and for those of us willing to put in the effort to get good/great focus it is awesome.
I plan on using it for several projects and just setting up several bulbs in extra reflectors when I have time, then swapping when necessary, but others may not like that approach.
Surefires' way works, and though more expensive, expense isn't always a problem when you're being shot at regularly. My experience with Surefire is that they provide the VERY BEST product they can, regardless of price, and let the chips fall where they may.
I wish there was a repotting/repeat reflectoring process so all those pretty reflectors could be reused, though!
Bill
Unfortunately, that process is not very easily done under stress, and Surefires way works much better in the field.
Jim has done tremendous work on the TL project and for those of us willing to put in the effort to get good/great focus it is awesome.
I plan on using it for several projects and just setting up several bulbs in extra reflectors when I have time, then swapping when necessary, but others may not like that approach.
Surefires' way works, and though more expensive, expense isn't always a problem when you're being shot at regularly. My experience with Surefire is that they provide the VERY BEST product they can, regardless of price, and let the chips fall where they may.
I wish there was a repotting/repeat reflectoring process so all those pretty reflectors could be reused, though!
Bill
KevinL
Flashlight Enthusiast
Agreed on the expense part. The newer MN series lamps also cost around $20-$30 and do not include a reflector, but for Surefire performance, many of us will simply pay up because there's no other way to get it. Others have closed the gap of the P60, but the 9 volt lamps still blow them all away. It's nice to see a design that lasts, I recall reading a thread about P-series lamps being placed on end-of-life/end-of-manufacturing status with much alarm, but I have my doubts SF will do that due to the huge array of lights out there that rely on them. Obsolescence is for computers, not for lights.
I do feel guilty about having to toss such a nice reflector too, especially after learning it's machined the same way as the lights, from solid aluminium stock. Someone needs to come up with a subassembly that we can slap a Luxeon onto and a converter/resistor underneath, think Hotlips Micro Edition for epoxying into Surefire P reflectors.
I do feel guilty about having to toss such a nice reflector too, especially after learning it's machined the same way as the lights, from solid aluminium stock. Someone needs to come up with a subassembly that we can slap a Luxeon onto and a converter/resistor underneath, think Hotlips Micro Edition for epoxying into Surefire P reflectors.
Surefires aren't the only ones doing this. Lights I have from Pelican and Underwater Kinetics also have Lamp Assemblies.
I have a Pelican Super Pelilite I got in the mid 80's that had a seperate bulb. I still have the spare, wrapped in a bit of open cell foam, tucked into the space behind the reflector. I never did burn out the original bulb. It made it thru Army basic training, Combat Engineer school, and many camping/hunting/hiking trips. Very easy way to carry the spare bulb I never needed.
I have a Pelican Super Pelilite I got in the mid 80's that had a seperate bulb. I still have the spare, wrapped in a bit of open cell foam, tucked into the space behind the reflector. I never did burn out the original bulb. It made it thru Army basic training, Combat Engineer school, and many camping/hunting/hiking trips. Very easy way to carry the spare bulb I never needed.
jtivat
Flashlight Enthusiast
[ QUOTE ]
redcar said:
Surefires aren't the only ones doing this. Lights I have from Pelican and Underwater Kinetics also have Lamp Assemblies.
I have a Pelican Super Pelilite I got in the mid 80's that had a seperate bulb. I still have the spare, wrapped in a bit of open cell foam, tucked into the space behind the reflector. I never did burn out the original bulb. It made it thru Army basic training, Combat Engineer school, and many camping/hunting/hiking trips. Very easy way to carry the spare bulb I never needed.
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't get me wrong here b/c I own, use and love many UK dive lights. But out of the water there beams just plan suck and are not in Surefire's league. As I use then under water this is not even noticeable. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
redcar said:
Surefires aren't the only ones doing this. Lights I have from Pelican and Underwater Kinetics also have Lamp Assemblies.
I have a Pelican Super Pelilite I got in the mid 80's that had a seperate bulb. I still have the spare, wrapped in a bit of open cell foam, tucked into the space behind the reflector. I never did burn out the original bulb. It made it thru Army basic training, Combat Engineer school, and many camping/hunting/hiking trips. Very easy way to carry the spare bulb I never needed.
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't get me wrong here b/c I own, use and love many UK dive lights. But out of the water there beams just plan suck and are not in Surefire's league. As I use then under water this is not even noticeable. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
jayflash
Flashlight Enthusiast
Two more advantages of lamp/reflector unit assemblies is at least two or three less electrical interfaces. The lamp leads are welded rather than bi-pins, in a friction fit socket who's lead wire fits under a contact cap (a la SL Scorp, TL-2, & 3).
The lamp won't fall out of a socket when the light is dropped.
The lamp won't fall out of a socket when the light is dropped.
Dukester
Flashlight Enthusiast
[ QUOTE ]
flashlite said:
ALL components of the bulb assembly that serve to maintain precision focus, thermal protection etc., can easily be made a component of the head assembly instead, and without compromising beam quality etc. There is no obstacle to this design that cannot be overcome. The initial cost of the entire flashlight may be slightly higher (if at all), but you'd save a lot of money in the long run. It would be hard for Surefire to justify a $20 +/- bulb replacement if all you received was the bulb itself.
The decision to make the bulb, with all its attached components, one assembly was most likely not an engineering decision. It was a marketing decision. I don't claim to be an engineering or marketing expert, but I've been around long enough to understand most of the tactics of capitalism and free enterprise. Surefire, along with many other manufacturers, has just figured out a way to apply this tactic to flashlights...and without some consumers even realizing it.
This is by no means an attack on Surefire or anyone who has ever purchased one of their products. This is just one of the drawbacks IMO. There are many other things that make these types of lights, by most accounts, excellent flashlights to have /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif.
BTW, if anyone knows of a flashlight that is perfect in every aspect, please let me know /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd have to agree. It is kind of like Inkjet Printers e.g. HP Printers. Hewlett Packard doesn't stay in business on just the printers they sell but they do keep in the black on their inkjet cartridges they do sell. Inkjet cartridges need replacing on a regular basis more often in an office type environment.
This is not slamming SF, it is just marketing at it's best and this techniques has been around for an awful long time.
flashlite said:
ALL components of the bulb assembly that serve to maintain precision focus, thermal protection etc., can easily be made a component of the head assembly instead, and without compromising beam quality etc. There is no obstacle to this design that cannot be overcome. The initial cost of the entire flashlight may be slightly higher (if at all), but you'd save a lot of money in the long run. It would be hard for Surefire to justify a $20 +/- bulb replacement if all you received was the bulb itself.
The decision to make the bulb, with all its attached components, one assembly was most likely not an engineering decision. It was a marketing decision. I don't claim to be an engineering or marketing expert, but I've been around long enough to understand most of the tactics of capitalism and free enterprise. Surefire, along with many other manufacturers, has just figured out a way to apply this tactic to flashlights...and without some consumers even realizing it.
This is by no means an attack on Surefire or anyone who has ever purchased one of their products. This is just one of the drawbacks IMO. There are many other things that make these types of lights, by most accounts, excellent flashlights to have /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif.
BTW, if anyone knows of a flashlight that is perfect in every aspect, please let me know /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd have to agree. It is kind of like Inkjet Printers e.g. HP Printers. Hewlett Packard doesn't stay in business on just the printers they sell but they do keep in the black on their inkjet cartridges they do sell. Inkjet cartridges need replacing on a regular basis more often in an office type environment.
This is not slamming SF, it is just marketing at it's best and this techniques has been around for an awful long time.
js
Flashlight Enthusiast
[ QUOTE ]
flashlite said:
ALL components of the bulb assembly that serve to maintain precision focus, thermal protection etc., can easily be made a component of the head assembly instead, and without compromising beam quality etc. There is no obstacle to this design that cannot be overcome. The initial cost of the entire flashlight may be slightly higher (if at all), but you'd save a lot of money in the long run. It would be hard for Surefire to justify a $20 +/- bulb replacement if all you received was the bulb itself.
The decision to make the bulb, with all its attached components, one assembly was most likely not an engineering decision. It was a marketing decision. I don't claim to be an engineering or marketing expert, but I've been around long enough to understand most of the tactics of capitalism and free enterprise. Surefire, along with many other manufacturers, has just figured out a way to apply this tactic to flashlights...and without some consumers even realizing it.
This is by no means an attack on Surefire or anyone who has ever purchased one of their products. This is just one of the drawbacks IMO. There are many other things that make these types of lights, by most accounts, excellent flashlights to have /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif.
BTW, if anyone knows of a flashlight that is perfect in every aspect, please let me know /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm a little unclear on this. Are you refering to the P60, 61, 90, and 91 SF LA's only, or do you include the Millenium series lamps which are potted onto a pedestal which fits precisely up the bore of the reflector and which has the dual springs (inner and outer) on the base?
In any event, I am clear about one thing: you say that SF could easily make it so that you could have the same precisely centered beam in a system where you ONLY replace the BARE lamp.
Well, I have some things to say about that, but first three facts:
1. No manufacturer of lamps is able to precisely center the filament of a lamp over the wires which run out through the pinch (base) of the bulb envelope.
2. The only truly "bare" lamp is a bi-pin lamp. All PR base lamps are potted into the PR base.
3. Perfect centering of the filament requires THREE translation components (x,y,z) and ONE rotation component (filament angle with respect to the reflector or pedestal axis.
So, given that bare bi-pin lamps have flaments which are in general not centered over the pins, what you are suggesting would require a pedestal which could be translated left-right, up-down, in-out, AND angled with respect to at least the reflector axis (and this is assuming that the bi-pin socket can be rotated). And all of these adjustments would need to be made while the reflector was in place and while the lamp was on. Otherwise, you're talking about making an adjustment, buttoning up the light, checking, making another adjustment, and so on.
This is obviously impractical and complicated, and would be prone to damage and mis-calibration.
Thus we are necessarily left with the potting of the bare lamp into something which is in precise relation to the reflector geometry. SureFire does this with a pedestal which slides up exactly through the bore of the reflector and which stops at precisely the right focus due to the bottom collar, and which is held there with the force of (at least) the outer spring pushing down on the inside rim of the body of the light.
StreamLight does this with the 20X and 35X by potting the lamp directly into a throw away reflector. So does TigerLight.
I do this by potting the lamp into a ring which is then secured with a set screw (thus requiring focus in only the z component) but I do NOT pay any attention to the angle of the filament. If it's angled, so be it. Thus even if I do my job of potting the lamp into the ring perfectly, in general, the result will not achieve the level of perfection which SureFire and StreamLight, and TigerLight can achieve.
Potting a lamp into a PR base could also theoretically achieve the same level of perfection, but I would be willing to bet that a company like Carley Lamps (which will pot bi-pin bulbs for a fee) does not bother centering the filament, and CERTAINLY does not pay any attention to filament angle.
And even if someone did pot precisely into PR bases, they are rather large and cumbersome compared to the 3/8" o.d. of the SureFire MN pedestal.
If I'm wrong about any of this, I'm very willing to be corrected.
And please detail to me your theoretical (imaginary?) setup for this light which has the same precisely aligned and focused beam as a SureFire, but which uses bare bi-pin lamps. I would honestly love to hear about it, because it would be a truly great setup.
As for your mud-slinging (which you don't see as mudslinging) against all manufacturers, and specifically against SureFire, I won't comment much, except to say that if you think that there is no such thing as a company that wants to do the right thing by its customers you are entirely mistaken and way too cynical for your own good.
flashlite said:
ALL components of the bulb assembly that serve to maintain precision focus, thermal protection etc., can easily be made a component of the head assembly instead, and without compromising beam quality etc. There is no obstacle to this design that cannot be overcome. The initial cost of the entire flashlight may be slightly higher (if at all), but you'd save a lot of money in the long run. It would be hard for Surefire to justify a $20 +/- bulb replacement if all you received was the bulb itself.
The decision to make the bulb, with all its attached components, one assembly was most likely not an engineering decision. It was a marketing decision. I don't claim to be an engineering or marketing expert, but I've been around long enough to understand most of the tactics of capitalism and free enterprise. Surefire, along with many other manufacturers, has just figured out a way to apply this tactic to flashlights...and without some consumers even realizing it.
This is by no means an attack on Surefire or anyone who has ever purchased one of their products. This is just one of the drawbacks IMO. There are many other things that make these types of lights, by most accounts, excellent flashlights to have /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif.
BTW, if anyone knows of a flashlight that is perfect in every aspect, please let me know /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm a little unclear on this. Are you refering to the P60, 61, 90, and 91 SF LA's only, or do you include the Millenium series lamps which are potted onto a pedestal which fits precisely up the bore of the reflector and which has the dual springs (inner and outer) on the base?
In any event, I am clear about one thing: you say that SF could easily make it so that you could have the same precisely centered beam in a system where you ONLY replace the BARE lamp.
Well, I have some things to say about that, but first three facts:
1. No manufacturer of lamps is able to precisely center the filament of a lamp over the wires which run out through the pinch (base) of the bulb envelope.
2. The only truly "bare" lamp is a bi-pin lamp. All PR base lamps are potted into the PR base.
3. Perfect centering of the filament requires THREE translation components (x,y,z) and ONE rotation component (filament angle with respect to the reflector or pedestal axis.
So, given that bare bi-pin lamps have flaments which are in general not centered over the pins, what you are suggesting would require a pedestal which could be translated left-right, up-down, in-out, AND angled with respect to at least the reflector axis (and this is assuming that the bi-pin socket can be rotated). And all of these adjustments would need to be made while the reflector was in place and while the lamp was on. Otherwise, you're talking about making an adjustment, buttoning up the light, checking, making another adjustment, and so on.
This is obviously impractical and complicated, and would be prone to damage and mis-calibration.
Thus we are necessarily left with the potting of the bare lamp into something which is in precise relation to the reflector geometry. SureFire does this with a pedestal which slides up exactly through the bore of the reflector and which stops at precisely the right focus due to the bottom collar, and which is held there with the force of (at least) the outer spring pushing down on the inside rim of the body of the light.
StreamLight does this with the 20X and 35X by potting the lamp directly into a throw away reflector. So does TigerLight.
I do this by potting the lamp into a ring which is then secured with a set screw (thus requiring focus in only the z component) but I do NOT pay any attention to the angle of the filament. If it's angled, so be it. Thus even if I do my job of potting the lamp into the ring perfectly, in general, the result will not achieve the level of perfection which SureFire and StreamLight, and TigerLight can achieve.
Potting a lamp into a PR base could also theoretically achieve the same level of perfection, but I would be willing to bet that a company like Carley Lamps (which will pot bi-pin bulbs for a fee) does not bother centering the filament, and CERTAINLY does not pay any attention to filament angle.
And even if someone did pot precisely into PR bases, they are rather large and cumbersome compared to the 3/8" o.d. of the SureFire MN pedestal.
If I'm wrong about any of this, I'm very willing to be corrected.
And please detail to me your theoretical (imaginary?) setup for this light which has the same precisely aligned and focused beam as a SureFire, but which uses bare bi-pin lamps. I would honestly love to hear about it, because it would be a truly great setup.
As for your mud-slinging (which you don't see as mudslinging) against all manufacturers, and specifically against SureFire, I won't comment much, except to say that if you think that there is no such thing as a company that wants to do the right thing by its customers you are entirely mistaken and way too cynical for your own good.
