35 W Hella HID on my mountainbike -- beamshots !!

As I do quite a lot of mountainbiking at night I always wondered how a automotive HID or Xenon light might perform on a mountainbike. Most of the systems for automotive use are far too big to use them on a handlebar of a bike. So I came across those HELLA DE XENON lamps which also can be purchased as single lights (set containing lamp, ballast/igniter, cables, mounting gear, screws, etc.). I made up a special handlebar adapter and this is what came out(o.k. it won´t win a beauty contest .....):










I went out for a short test ride yesterday night - and boy it was bright....... but there seems to be something wrong with the colour temperature of the light. If I start the whole thing up, it brightens up until it reaches a nice bright white (daylight like) colour but after 2 or 3 seconds the colour becomes somewhat yellow like from an incadescent H4 bulb or something /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
As this is my first attempt to use a automotive HID system on a bike I am not familiar with the proper operating voltage - well of course it says 12 Volts but usually a car while running the engine produces a higher voltage - so does anyone know if my problem is due to under voltage ?
I use a 12 Volt NiMH akku pack with 3000 mAh Sanyo cells and I have already measured the output voltage while the system is running - 12,2 Volts. I´ll try a 13,8 Volt power supply later and see if this will make any difference /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

-Norbert

Re: 35 W Hella DE XENON on my mountainbike

Nice bike by the way!

Olivier

Re: 35 W Hella DE XENON on my mountainbike

the most automotive ballasts work well between 9-16V
with no brightness difference (full regualtion).
I run a automotive HID system on 12v NiMh, the only problem
ist that the ballast discharges the cells way to deep.

A "really slightly" yellow tint is normal for a D2S bulb,
it should look white compared to Halogen bulbs.
but after some hundred hours of runtime on the bulb the
color shifts to HID typical bluish, cold white.
so all you have to do is lots of night rides!

Re: 35 W Hella DE XENON on my mountainbike

Cool Votec - back on topic.

Is the ballast waterproof that way?
Could you post some more pictures of the lamp itself, front, mount, etc. Any info on runtime? Beamshot? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/poke2.gif You see I am very interested in a good lightsetup for my bike and haven#t found the correct one yet. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I am also looking forward to longterm testing.

More infos on sources? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/poke2.gif

Klau.s

Re: 35 W Hella DE XENON on my mountainbike

very nice !

A HID bulb starts up as a pure Xenon Arc but as temperature rises, the salts within the bulb will shift to gazeous form and change the color to a yellower tint. SHould be the same for all Metal Halide bulbs, and the D2S should be a metal halide.
My dive light does the same.

bernhard

Re: 35 W Hella DE XENON on my mountainbike

many thanks for the helping info ! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

--> Klau.s

well the little bag is rainproof and I think it would withstand a rain shower but this was only a rough set up to test the equipment - another idea I head was tp put the ballast inside an Otterbox to make it really waterproof ...

I will post some more pictures of the lamp and some beamshots in the near future .....
By the way: the handlebar mount is based on a standard CLICKfix mount (I use the same mounts for our Pocket PC based rugged bike navigation systems - so there were enough parts around ......)

During the short night time test run I must admit, it almoust was too bright. And runtime should be just about an hour or so with 3000 mAh - perhaps even less .... have not yet measured the current draw from the lamp. So I think if you really look for a reliable and quite bright lighting system for your mountainbike, go for a 10 Watt WA HID. I use a selfmade solution for quite a while now and I´m very pleased with it. I use a DC-DC step up converter (input from 5 to 9 Volt - output 12,0 Volt - 1,7 A max.) to be able to operate it on a 7,4 Volt Lithium Polymer Akku with 5400 mAh. This gives me about 500 lumen constant brightness for about 5 hours ....

-Norbert

Re: 35 W Hella DE XENON on my mountainbike

--> bernhard

well I did not think that the colour shift is that much ....

Is it a 30/35 Watt diving light ? I ask because I have not noticed a similar colour shift with the 10 Watt HID WA lamps including the one in my Fa&Mi Multistar HID12 diving light ??!!

-Norbert

Re: 35 W Hella DE XENON on my mountainbike

... I did some more research on the colour temperature issue and had a look on the Osram and on the Philips D2S datasheet. Both datasheets say, that the D2S bulb gives a colour temperature of 4200K. I found an old datasheet an this said something about 5500K to 6000K. So my D2S bulb is definetly 4200K and thats why it looks so different (and not "as white") compared to the 6000K 10 Watt WA HID. A friend who works for BMW told me that the "old" 6000K D2S bulbs are no longer street legal in Europe (or at least in Germany) and that was the reason why they changed it to 4200K. For non automotive applications you still can get D2S bulbs with 6000K though (and that´s what I will do now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif )

-Norbert

Re: 35 W Hella DE XENON on my mountainbike

You will actually loose lumen output from around 3200 lumens to 2800 lumens respectively, if you go from your 4200K Bulbs to 6000K Bulbs. Unless you really like the bluish white color, I would not waste the money.
Larry.

Re: 35 W Hella DE XENON on my mountainbike

I had a couple of those Helle DE housings and the beam isn't pretty. There stray beams of light everywhere. Looks like it will work great for Nobbe application though. Those ballast I believe draw around 8 amps upon startup then drop down to around 3amps when everythings warmed up.

Mac

Re: 35 W Hella DE XENON on my mountainbike

Thanks Larry for the hint /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I had a look at the datasheet of some 6000K and even a 8000K D2S bulb that are for sale in different webshops - and you are absolutely right ! You cold really loose up to 500 lumen just for the colour change (I must admit that I like the somewhat blue colour better because of what I feel better contrast to the environment) - so I think unless I get a really cheap deal I leave it as it is ........ and post some beamshots, soon.
Anyway - thanks again /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

-Norbert

Re: 35 W Hella DE XENON on my mountainbike

...... you´re absolutely right ! After playing around with this setup I must say I have seen nicer beams on some other lights before. But the funny thing is that this "light everywhere" as you described it, is quite useful for fast singletracks on a mountainbike at night - So after all I think I like it ...... well at least for this particulary application ....

-Norbert

Re: 35 W Hella DE XENON on my mountainbike

hurry up with the beamshots already...

Seriously this is a very attractive setup. I really do believe you may win some beauty contests with this one.

Where did you find the Hella DE Xenon as a set? How much did it cost you? I can think of some very usefull applications for the projector setup.

Oh yeah...since it is a driving light, does it also have a cut-off beam pattern like regular driving lights? I can see how VERY usefull this can be for bike lights.

Re: 35 W Hella DE XENON on my mountainbike

Hi LEDagent,

I just ordered the light at a local car tuning store (as I can buy through my company, I got a quite good price .....) and the regular price is 249 EURO incl. VAT for the single set.
The HELLA part number is: 1F0 008 390-001 - don´t know if they have international part numbers though ......


A quite useful overview of the HELLA long range Xenon lights can be found here: HELLA

There should be an English version of this somewhere, too.
The beamshots on this pages are of course the HELLA version of the truth ..... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

-Norbert

Re: 35 W Hella DE XENON on my mountainbike

I have 2 of these installed on my ATV along with a modded center light thats also HID. I can post pics of these later on if needed. They do indeed have a ugly beam but for use as a bike light or on My Quad the side spill is an asset! A few days ago I was on a night ride running full throttle and it was a blast! (The bats flying around seemed to like the lights too)
A few things to be aware of, the DE light is only splash proof, getting water into the light will corrode the insides fast. I had to seal one vent and added a breather line to the other vent. It's not ideal but there are times the lights are fully submerged!
The ballasts I have are 3rd generation and draw 44 watts total each for Me. They are also splash proof if the vent is not faced up (the vent is the cap in between the power input jack and output cable)But I also had some water find it's way in /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
These lights also do not have a cut off line, The DEX fog lights do have a well defined cut off line but they are larger and deeper then the DE lights. I have the DEX on My jeep after people got violent over the DE lights I had installed at that time.

Re: 35 W Hella DE XENON on my mountainbike

...... just wanted to take my bike out to do some beamshots - but damn !! - it rains like hell /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

..... well seems like I´ll try again tomorrow night /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

-Norbert

Re: 35 W Hella DE XENON on my mountainbike

Those D2S bulbs take a while to break in and will get whiter after 20- 30 hours run time. Depends on which brand bulb as some use more halide which makes light have more yellow tint. Like the other fellow said, the regular D2S is brighter than the 6000 K jobs. I got on on my bike and if that is not bright enough, you have an eye problem...

Here it is : X990 bike mount: http://www.tjtech.org/gallery/BrightBikeLight/X990Bike9


NikolaTesla /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif


An Arc lamp is the Spark that takes away the Dark--HID Forever!

My Lights: http://www.tjtech.org/gallery/NikolaTesla/MyNewLights

Re: 35 W Hella DE XENON on my mountainbike

o.k. and now the beamshots ! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

























Some additional info:

Apart from the last picture on all other pictures there always is only one single light switched on at a time, although it sometimes looks as if both lights were engaged.

All pictures are taken with aperture=1 sec. and f=2,8. The tele lens is 100mm - the wide angle lens is 28mm.

In reality both lights are much more brighter to the eye than it is shown on the pictures. But to prevent over-exposure while taking photos of the 35 Watt HID, I had to take 1 second - so the 10 Watt looks quite dark. But to get a comparison I think the pics should do.

have fun ! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

-Norbert

Re: 35 W Hella DE XENON on my mountainbike

The other one was a 10w HID?! I thought it was an LED backup light.

Re: 35 W Hella DE XENON on my mountainbike

Now thats light /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I wish i had that on my bike, lights up the whole path... cool man.