I need some help from our electrical experts. I'm in Florida and am trying to get ready for Ivan. I want to buy a DC power inverter to run from the car and provide AC to my house. I have a 100 watt alternator on the car. Is that enough power to drive a 3000W inverter?
Hurricane coming- need info
- Thread starter Starlight
- Start date
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I don't know the answer to your question, but here's a decent thread about generators you may be interested in.
Generator discussion on CPF
And if your adventurous, look here too.
Mike
Generator discussion on CPF
And if your adventurous, look here too.
Mike
PhotonWrangler
Flashaholic
I doubt that your car's alternator and the inverter will be able to power up an entire house. A fridge maybe, but not much else. If you placed a really huge inverter on the car's alternator, you could burn out the alternator's diodes.
I'd concentrate on keeping the food cold (pack your fridge with dry ice and keep the door closed as much as possible) and then maybe plan on powering up a few lights with the inverter.
A caution - if you're planning on plugging electronic devices into the inverter (desktop PC, VCR, etc) then make sure that the inverter puts out a reasonably clean SINE wave. Cheap inverters that put out square waves can burn up your home electronic devices from excessive harmonic energy. Been there, blowed that up... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Be safe.
I'd concentrate on keeping the food cold (pack your fridge with dry ice and keep the door closed as much as possible) and then maybe plan on powering up a few lights with the inverter.
A caution - if you're planning on plugging electronic devices into the inverter (desktop PC, VCR, etc) then make sure that the inverter puts out a reasonably clean SINE wave. Cheap inverters that put out square waves can burn up your home electronic devices from excessive harmonic energy. Been there, blowed that up... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Be safe.
James S
Flashlight Enthusiast
If you're going to run any serious extra load on the alternator of your car you need upgraded alternators, bigger or secondary batteries as well as things to up the idle speed when under load.
You COULD run that from a big deep cycle marine battery for a short time and then recharge it from the car. But that doesn't help if you want things running all the time.
If you're just planning to run some extension cords from this or the generator to the fridge and a small TV in the kitchen, but if you're thinking of wiring it into the house wiring (in which case 3kwatts is not nearly enough to do anything serious) you're also going to need a transfer switch. You can't just plug it in.
You COULD run that from a big deep cycle marine battery for a short time and then recharge it from the car. But that doesn't help if you want things running all the time.
If you're just planning to run some extension cords from this or the generator to the fridge and a small TV in the kitchen, but if you're thinking of wiring it into the house wiring (in which case 3kwatts is not nearly enough to do anything serious) you're also going to need a transfer switch. You can't just plug it in.
javafool
Enlightened
Starlight,
90% of 100 watts at 12 volts is 90 watts no matter the voltage you change it to. Are you sure your alternator isn't 100 Amps? That would make quite a difference in your calculations an what you really wish to accomplish.
Power (watts) = E (voltage) x I (current)
Terry
90% of 100 watts at 12 volts is 90 watts no matter the voltage you change it to. Are you sure your alternator isn't 100 Amps? That would make quite a difference in your calculations an what you really wish to accomplish.
Power (watts) = E (voltage) x I (current)
Terry
NewBie
*Retired*
Ice and water, many forget about ice...don't forget a nice first aid kit. Water purification tablets are useful in a pinch. A long lasting source of fire is great too. Candles provide a nice long lasting source of light, not much good in the wind, but a mantle lantern is great. If you think you are might get in the thick of it, multiple layers of clothing help alot, in cold weather. Don't forget toilet paper and shovel if it's gonna take time for services to be re-established.
[ QUOTE ]
javafool said:
Starlight,
90% of 100 watts at 12 volts is 90 watts no matter the voltage you change it to. Are you sure your alternator isn't 100 Amps? That would make quite a difference in your calculations an what you really wish to accomplish.
Power (watts) = E (voltage) x I (current)
Terry
[/ QUOTE ]
Terry, I think you're right, it's 100 amps not watts. Does that mean I can only get about 10 amps at 120v?
javafool said:
Starlight,
90% of 100 watts at 12 volts is 90 watts no matter the voltage you change it to. Are you sure your alternator isn't 100 Amps? That would make quite a difference in your calculations an what you really wish to accomplish.
Power (watts) = E (voltage) x I (current)
Terry
[/ QUOTE ]
Terry, I think you're right, it's 100 amps not watts. Does that mean I can only get about 10 amps at 120v?
javafool
Enlightened
Starlight, I'm sorry but I just don't know what type inverter you are considering.
100Amps x 120 volts x 90% = 10,800 watts. This might be accomplished if you are taking really heavy duty jumper wires off of the battery.
But I took a quick look at Office Depot and a couple of similar sites and they are selling inverters that plug into like the cigarette lighter outlets in the car. These are running from 60 watts to maybe 110 watts and will run a radio, small TV or similar small appliances. Something in the $29.95 to $58.95 price range. If that is what you were looking at, don't expect much.
One of you electrical types jump in here and help out!
Terry
100Amps x 120 volts x 90% = 10,800 watts. This might be accomplished if you are taking really heavy duty jumper wires off of the battery.
But I took a quick look at Office Depot and a couple of similar sites and they are selling inverters that plug into like the cigarette lighter outlets in the car. These are running from 60 watts to maybe 110 watts and will run a radio, small TV or similar small appliances. Something in the $29.95 to $58.95 price range. If that is what you were looking at, don't expect much.
One of you electrical types jump in here and help out!
Terry
robk
Enlightened
I used a 750 watt inverter in a 2004 Xterra during the past week. Rule of thumb (from the manual) says divide the output watts (add up the fan, light, TV, etc) by 10 to get the amp draw from the battery. I was pulling about 400 watts, or 40 amps from the battery that's rated at 45 Amp-Hours. I killed the battery more than once and had to use jumper cables. I understand that automotive batteries are never supposed to be drained that low and it will eventually kill them. By the end of 6 days, I was getting about 45 minutes of AC power before I had to run the engine for an hour to recharge - not a good thing. Used a lot of gas for a little power. I then borrowed a 7500 watt generator and that did the trick, although it was noisy and stinky. Look into "Yellow Top Battery", a deep cycle auto battery with a decent AH rating as long as your alternator can keep up with it.
Rob
Rob
100A at 13.8VDC=1380 watts. With a 90% efficient inverter that would be 1242 watts.
So that would be 120VAC at about 10 amps coming out of the Inverter if everything is as stated.
Use as short and as heavy extention cord as possible.
So that would be 120VAC at about 10 amps coming out of the Inverter if everything is as stated.
Use as short and as heavy extention cord as possible.
FlashlightOCD
Enlightened
I personally would like for car makers to offer an option that would allow the the car to act as a emergency generator.
That generator "Mode" would include a specialized generator designed to put out 120v AC and the electronics to automatically increase the idle speed enough to run the generator.
I live in Florida and would gladly pay an extra $1,000 for such an option on a car if it was available.
That generator "Mode" would include a specialized generator designed to put out 120v AC and the electronics to automatically increase the idle speed enough to run the generator.
I live in Florida and would gladly pay an extra $1,000 for such an option on a car if it was available.
KevinL
Flashlight Enthusiast
Dunno if they're gonna offer anything like this, but they do make the car and the generator separately.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
For $1000 you might be best served with a dedicated generator. The watts from the car's alternator are also being bled off by other things, for example the battery charger, ignition system, etc.etc.etc. even if you turn off all non-essential accessories. Plus you don't tax your car by running it in low idle too long.
I notice that these dedicated gensets claim sine wave output also, useful for computers and communications equipment which doesn't like square wave output from some inverters (including inverters on entry level UPSes).
For $1000 you might be best served with a dedicated generator. The watts from the car's alternator are also being bled off by other things, for example the battery charger, ignition system, etc.etc.etc. even if you turn off all non-essential accessories. Plus you don't tax your car by running it in low idle too long.
I notice that these dedicated gensets claim sine wave output also, useful for computers and communications equipment which doesn't like square wave output from some inverters (including inverters on entry level UPSes).
LitFuse
Flashlight Enthusiast
[ QUOTE ]
FlashlightOCD said:
I personally would like for car makers to offer an option that would allow the the car to act as a emergency generator.
That generator "Mode" would include a specialized generator designed to put out 120v AC and the electronics to automatically increase the idle speed enough to run the generator.
I live in Florida and would gladly pay an extra $1,000 for such an option on a car if it was available.
[/ QUOTE ]
I know I have seen this type of thing as an aftermarket kit, I just can't remember where. A cursory Google search didn't yield what I was looking for.
I put over 400 hours on my generator in the two weeks following Charley. Prior to this I had accumulated 5 hours on it in the past three years. I was considering selling it do to non-use, I'm glad I didn't.
Breathing much easier with the latest forecast track for Ivan, I've still got a tarp on my roof and don't need *yet another* hurricane... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif
Peter
FlashlightOCD said:
I personally would like for car makers to offer an option that would allow the the car to act as a emergency generator.
That generator "Mode" would include a specialized generator designed to put out 120v AC and the electronics to automatically increase the idle speed enough to run the generator.
I live in Florida and would gladly pay an extra $1,000 for such an option on a car if it was available.
[/ QUOTE ]
I know I have seen this type of thing as an aftermarket kit, I just can't remember where. A cursory Google search didn't yield what I was looking for.
I put over 400 hours on my generator in the two weeks following Charley. Prior to this I had accumulated 5 hours on it in the past three years. I was considering selling it do to non-use, I'm glad I didn't.
Breathing much easier with the latest forecast track for Ivan, I've still got a tarp on my roof and don't need *yet another* hurricane... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif
Peter
LitFuse
Flashlight Enthusiast
Starlight- I think unless you have a dedicated bank of deep-cycle batteries, the inverter setup is going to be a hassle to implement and use. I think a small portable generator would be a much more practical solution, and if you're affected by Ivan, you may be able to take advantage of some Federal aid. Below is a cut and paste from another thread:
Just FYI- If you are left without power due to Ivan, and FEMA aid is available, it's apparently quite easy to get them to pick up the tab (up to $600) for a portable generator. I don't know the specifics, but I do know of several people who did this here in S.W. Fl. after Charley. I *think* you have to purchase *after* the power goes out though, not in anticipation of same.
I think 40,000 watts may be a little over the top for most folks... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I've found that even the run of the mill 5,000 watt units are really overkill for post hurricane use. They use lots of gas (which can be tough to get), are noisy, and produce more power than it typically used. They can't run your central air, but are way overqualified for most other needs, so you end up running a 10 HP motor and using lots of fuel to power the fridge and a couple of lights, etc.
I really like the Honda EU series generators for emergency use. They are inverter type units that are able to vary their engine speed to match the load demand. They are *incredibly* quiet, sip gas, and will take care of most electrical needs. My brother just got one of the EU2000s, and it's an incredible machine. You barely hear it run, yet it will start and run a 12,500 BTU window AC and still have a couple amps left for lights and/or the TV. They aren't cheap (about $900) but I think they are well worth the money. Buying a Honda only hurts once, and they are a pleasure to use. If you can get FEMA to pick up $600 of the tab, so much for the better.
Gensets are very hard to come by in Fla. at the moment though. I have bought several of the Honda units from Mayberrys and can recommend them without reservation. Because they sell Honda for less than list price they do not have them on their website, you have to give them a call.
Peter
Just FYI- If you are left without power due to Ivan, and FEMA aid is available, it's apparently quite easy to get them to pick up the tab (up to $600) for a portable generator. I don't know the specifics, but I do know of several people who did this here in S.W. Fl. after Charley. I *think* you have to purchase *after* the power goes out though, not in anticipation of same.
I think 40,000 watts may be a little over the top for most folks... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I've found that even the run of the mill 5,000 watt units are really overkill for post hurricane use. They use lots of gas (which can be tough to get), are noisy, and produce more power than it typically used. They can't run your central air, but are way overqualified for most other needs, so you end up running a 10 HP motor and using lots of fuel to power the fridge and a couple of lights, etc.
I really like the Honda EU series generators for emergency use. They are inverter type units that are able to vary their engine speed to match the load demand. They are *incredibly* quiet, sip gas, and will take care of most electrical needs. My brother just got one of the EU2000s, and it's an incredible machine. You barely hear it run, yet it will start and run a 12,500 BTU window AC and still have a couple amps left for lights and/or the TV. They aren't cheap (about $900) but I think they are well worth the money. Buying a Honda only hurts once, and they are a pleasure to use. If you can get FEMA to pick up $600 of the tab, so much for the better.
Gensets are very hard to come by in Fla. at the moment though. I have bought several of the Honda units from Mayberrys and can recommend them without reservation. Because they sell Honda for less than list price they do not have them on their website, you have to give them a call.
Peter
DieselDave
Super Moderator,
[ QUOTE ]
FlashlightOCD said:
I personally would like for car makers to offer an option that would allow the the car to act as a emergency generator.
That generator "Mode" would include a specialized generator designed to put out 120v AC and the electronics to automatically increase the idle speed enough to run the generator.
I live in Florida and would gladly pay an extra $1,000 for such an option on a car if it was available.
[/ QUOTE ]
You want it, you got it!
It will run for 30 hours on one tank of fuel. It will start and stop itself during this time as it senses it's batteries getting low. You could hook it up to an AC window unit, refrig., a lamp or two and some fans and power them for 30 hours without refueling. You can even have the truck turned off, the keys out and the doors locked during this evolution. It's neat. . I believe it's 3800 watts. It also improves your MPG when driving by 2 MPG. Best of all…with package savings the option cost about $1,500. The option is $2500 but there is a $1,000 package discount for getting it.
Factory generator in a Silverado
PS: I am not trying to sell this to anyone here I just thought it ironic FlashlightOCD asked for it and it just came out.
FlashlightOCD said:
I personally would like for car makers to offer an option that would allow the the car to act as a emergency generator.
That generator "Mode" would include a specialized generator designed to put out 120v AC and the electronics to automatically increase the idle speed enough to run the generator.
I live in Florida and would gladly pay an extra $1,000 for such an option on a car if it was available.
[/ QUOTE ]
You want it, you got it!
It will run for 30 hours on one tank of fuel. It will start and stop itself during this time as it senses it's batteries getting low. You could hook it up to an AC window unit, refrig., a lamp or two and some fans and power them for 30 hours without refueling. You can even have the truck turned off, the keys out and the doors locked during this evolution. It's neat. . I believe it's 3800 watts. It also improves your MPG when driving by 2 MPG. Best of all…with package savings the option cost about $1,500. The option is $2500 but there is a $1,000 package discount for getting it.
Factory generator in a Silverado
PS: I am not trying to sell this to anyone here I just thought it ironic FlashlightOCD asked for it and it just came out.
gadget_lover
Flashaholic
That's interesting (the Silverado). I have a 1000 watt inverter (1500 peak) attached to a deep discharge battery that's on a dedicated charger for emergency use. It draws about 80 amps at 12 volts to output 1000 watts. That's not enough for a coffee pot, but will power a light and the fridge. Battery, inverter, charger, cables and connectors brought me up to around $200.
A double aught cable (00) is needed to provide the 130 amps for peak use. That's as big as my finger. If you want 3000 watts be prepared to get some seriously heavy cable for the battery to inverter side.
As a backup, I have a Toyota Prius. That's a hybrid too. I can run a 700 watt inverter from it's 12 volt battery. That battery is in turn charged from the 277 volt battery pack. That is charged by the engine, which only turns on when needed. I drove it for 7 hours yesterday at 70 MPH and used less than 10 gallons. It has an 11.5 gallon tank. I would guess that if used as a generator to power a small inverter it would last for many days.
I've looked into this matter too, and you should really look into a commercial generator.
Daniel
A double aught cable (00) is needed to provide the 130 amps for peak use. That's as big as my finger. If you want 3000 watts be prepared to get some seriously heavy cable for the battery to inverter side.
As a backup, I have a Toyota Prius. That's a hybrid too. I can run a 700 watt inverter from it's 12 volt battery. That battery is in turn charged from the 277 volt battery pack. That is charged by the engine, which only turns on when needed. I drove it for 7 hours yesterday at 70 MPH and used less than 10 gallons. It has an 11.5 gallon tank. I would guess that if used as a generator to power a small inverter it would last for many days.
I've looked into this matter too, and you should really look into a commercial generator.
Daniel
Turt
Enlightened
[ QUOTE ]
Breathing much easier with the latest forecast track for Ivan, I've still got a tarp on my roof and don't need *yet another* hurricane... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
Great to see you back on board Peter! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif
Breathing much easier with the latest forecast track for Ivan, I've still got a tarp on my roof and don't need *yet another* hurricane... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
Great to see you back on board Peter! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif
LitFuse
Flashlight Enthusiast
Thanks Turt, it's good to be back. It's been quite an interesting month! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Christo_pull_hair.gif
Peter
Peter
