HELP! ! SOLVE A CRIME . . .

Help!!!

I am in need of some assistance in the area of forensic lighting. I have a great personal interest in learning about this type of lighting. Currently the Dearing House (which is a trauma center for victims), and the Criminal Investigators in our county do not have access to the correct 9 wave lighting that is necessary to gather the forensic evidence to solve crimes. Due to inadequate equipment the forensic evidence needed was not collected as needed. The following is a brief of why this is so personal; we are unable to give out to much information due to that this case is still under investigation. But due to lack of forensic evidence this case gets put on the back burner as a cold case. The following was written by my niece, Laurie.

Hi, my name is Laurie. My mother was murdered on December 22, 1997 when I was 9. My sister and I were in the house when all this was going on. The person, who killed my mother, also did something to me and my sister; but due to lack of evidence it has almost been 7 years and nobody knows who did it. But the DA thinks that if they had more powerful instruments they would have been able to crack the case. So, I am asking for help to get the instruments necessary, so that this will not happen to someone else like me.


If there is any way that anyone could help with how to come up with some type of setup that would included all the necessary 9 waves of light for this type of lighting, which is more feasible than the asking price of $7,000.00 per unit for one that is on the market now. We are very interested in obtaining a minimum of 2, one for the Dearing House and one for the Criminal Investigators. Then our mission or ultimate goal is to try to make it more feasible and attainable for other Center's like the Dearing Housing and other Criminal Investigators to have this type of equipment on hand. Then maybe there will no longer be so many unsolved or cold case files.

Re: HELP! ! 9 WAVE FORENSIC LIGHTS

Here are some links to the types of lights available currently to do this job.
Polylight

Omni 1000

crimescope



We are hoping that there is a way to find a substitute way of doing this. I am thinking this is going to take 9 seperate lights in each wavelength. I hope someone out there can help with information on how to make this a reality. Many small departments cannot afford these units but perhaps a cheaper alternative can be done.

Thanks
Jon

Re: HELP! ! 9 WAVE FORENSIC LIGHTS

I talked in CPF Chat about this subject. I have permission to all in it to post this log. I originally thought of many seperate lights for this but Jarhead had some ideas that might be much better. I will edit this down to relevant parts when my eyes will stay open.

<JonSidneyB> hey guys.....do us a favor...keep this thread alive...we want to see if there ways we can make this happen
<JonSidneyB> bobbie....I am sure that in no time at all....we will get lots of advice
<Luke> I hope so
<JonSidneyB> I bet Jarhead will have some ideas of his own
<Luke> yeah I bet he will
<Okie_Chick> Good because I am lost in the dark on this
<Luke> He'd be the one who would know really, he's very good at this
<Luke> Lots of people on CPF would probably be willing to donate money though
<Luke> and the select few that really know about these topics might be able to donate their expertise
<Jarhead_NewBie> the lowest cost would be a HID with a prism
<JonSidneyB> it would be nice if a way to build a cheaper substitute...then many could benifit
<Jarhead_NewBie> HID puts out IR through visible to UV
<Jarhead_NewBie> a hole would be in the side of the box
<Jarhead_NewBie> the prism is between the HID and the hole
<JonSidneyB> see, I knew Jar would have ideas
<Jarhead_NewBie> you steer the prism to allow the wavelength of light you want out to shoot out
<Jarhead_NewBie> could also be done with LEDs
<Jarhead_NewBie> HID is alot cheaper
<Jarhead_NewBie> fella could prolly get HID setup from auto junkyard, and prism from any one of many scientific surplus joints
<Luke> you can really get HID from auto junkyards?
<Jarhead_NewBie> yeah, usually they want 35 dollars or more
<Luke> wow
<Luke> Honestly, I'm pretty glad you hang around here Jar
<Jarhead_NewBie> you understand how a prism makes a rainbow
<JonSidneyB> Jarhead>any tips on how to get this done would be great
<Jarhead_NewBie> well, it does it from below IR to beyond UV
<Jarhead_NewBie> at one point the glass prism will stop passing the UV
<JonSidneyB> there is a pic of Okie chick here....how can you not help someone with this smile
<JonSidneyB> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=525342&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=26&vc=1
<Jarhead_NewBie> if you need UV above that, you'll need a quartz prism
<JonSidneyB> did you see some of the machines currently doing the job
<Jarhead_NewBie> you mount prism on a post that you can rotate
<Luke> would that waste a lot of light Jar?
<Jarhead_NewBie> yes it is Luke, but definitely the cheapest
<Luke> It'd still be plenty of light right?
<Jarhead_NewBie> you mark off the dial for the different wavelengths
<JonSidneyB> Jar>can you make a ball park estimate to what something like this will cost to build
<Okie_Chick> Thanks Jon. . .but what I would like is to have my niece smile.
<Jarhead_NewBie> then you can have an "infinite" amount of wavelengths at your disposal and sent competitors packing
<Jarhead_NewBie> could be free if you had the materials at hand
<JonSidneyB> not looking to sell...just to get made
<Jarhead_NewBie> oh
<JonSidneyB> we would pay you jar
<Jarhead_NewBie> say 200 for HID from Welych
<Jarhead_NewBie> 20 bux for glass prism, dunno quartz prism prices
<Jarhead_NewBie> add a small reflector to focus for the HID, say 20 bux
<Jarhead_NewBie> metal box, not much
<Jarhead_NewBie> SLA battery, say 10 bux
<Jarhead_NewBie> and big dial, say 10 bux
<Jarhead_NewBie> then you just need to mark off and calibrate the dial
<Jarhead_NewBie> unfortunately, think it is 600 bux from welch for a hid kit, they make you buy three
<Luke> they wanted two
<JonSidneyB> a prisim will give a full range of wavelenghts that these devices do
<Luke> perhaps they could sell the third kit
<jtice> jar, its a $100 min order
<Jarhead_NewBie> if you build it JSB, I'll calibrate the dial
<JonSidneyB> hmmm
<JonSidneyB> how much would you charge if you built it
<Jarhead_NewBie> can't promise anything, lots of things going on
<jtice> sounds like a cool project guys, but would the prism really work?
<jtice> wouldnt alot of "white" light excape, washing out the "color"?
<JonSidneyB> Jar>post your ideas
<Jarhead_NewBie> you only have a slit jtice
<JonSidneyB> perhaps we can get someone else to build it
<JonSidneyB> and get you to calibrate
<Jarhead_NewBie> you adjust prism so 635nm is sitting over it, and only 635nm escapes
<JonSidneyB> just think....cpf could be on the cutting edge of forensic lights as well
<Jarhead_NewBie> wider slit, wider wavelength
<Jarhead_NewBie> inside of box is painted flat black to absorb the rest of the colors
<Jarhead_NewBie> gotta go do some work, bbiab
<JonSidneyB> jar...post your ideas sometime
<Jarhead_NewBie> chop up the log and post
<Okie_Chick> Wow. . .Jarhead. . .you know a lot
<JonSidneyB> ok
<Okie_Chick> I appreciate you information
<Luke> Jar's the resident EE expert
<Luke> until of course I get my degree and show 'em up in a few years .
<JonSidneyB> ok....choping and posting
<Okie_Chick> What does that stand for?
<Luke> what does what stand for?
<JonSidneyB> shoot
<JonSidneyB> anyone logging this
<JonSidneyB> it scrolled off
<Luke> I'll save it
<JonSidneyB> thanks
<JonSidneyB> can you mail me the contents
<Jarhead_NewBie> the prism idea is how we used to get various wavelengths we needed for experiments in science
<JonSidneyB> will credit jarhead on his ideas
<JonSidneyB> ummm chromatography?
<Jarhead_NewBie> or to view spectral contents of say an argon light
<Jarhead_NewBie> you use it to produce things like this, http://members.misty.com/don/spectra.html
<Jarhead_NewBie> in this case we adjust prism to allow whatever wavelength we want to escape
<JonSidneyB> luke, are ya here
<Jarhead_NewBie> you can also use grating to produce spectrum, but you'll need a glass metal version
<JonSidneyB> hmmm
<JonSidneyB> grating
<Jarhead_NewBie> 3200 lumens out of a hid
<jtice> and tilt the angle of the grating to the light huh
<jtice> ?
<jtice> so the holes get wider and narrower
<JonSidneyB> is this like creating a wave length sieve...like poloraiztion but wide ranging
<Jarhead_NewBie> say it emits visible light, due to the lumens rating
<Jarhead_NewBie> Just as for "lumens," candlepower is a measure of brightness that
<Jarhead_NewBie> is adjusted to the selective sensitivity of the human eye
<Jarhead_NewBie> so, say 400nm to 700nm
<Jarhead_NewBie> 300 nm range
<Jarhead_NewBie> divide 3200 lumens by 300
<Jarhead_NewBie> about 100 lumens at each 1nm wide window
<Jarhead_NewBie> most sources actually have a wide emission band
<Jarhead_NewBie> so, say you make the slit so that 30 nm fits through
<Jarhead_NewBie> oops, 10 lumens per 1nm wide window
<Jarhead_NewBie> okay back to subject
<Jarhead_NewBie> so you use 30nm wide window
<Jarhead_NewBie> slit
<Jarhead_NewBie> so you get 300 lumens at that range
<Jarhead_NewBie> you could have a disk with different slits
<shiftd> JAR
<Jarhead_NewBie> so, not only can you dial up the center wavelength you want, but you can also rotate the disk for the bandwidth you want to pass through
<Jarhead_NewBie> which means not only do you have a continously variable wavelength source, which blows out the competition, but you can also adjust the width of the wavelengths you want to pass
<Luke> sounds great
<Jarhead_NewBie> you could use it broad to look for whatever, then once something shows up, you can slip to narrow pass, and dial through until you get to exact wavelength that it peaks at
<Jarhead_NewBie> which helps alot to precisely identify exactly whatever it is
<Jarhead_NewBie> it is nothing more than how they identify what elements are in a star, with some minor mods, working the whole thing in reverse
<Jarhead_NewBie> tq luke
<JonSidneyB> this sounds alot better when how I wanted to approach this....9 seperate single wavelenth lights
<JonSidneyB> and more versatile
<JonSidneyB> Jar, so this is all doable
<JonSidneyB> a couple of grand might be able to cover this?
<JonSidneyB> balamer line coding?

Re: HELP! ! 9 WAVE FORENSIC LIGHTS

Hmmm, it appears that some of these are designed for multi-purpose detection, especially with the automated light filtering wheels and variety of tinted goggles.

I myself am not familiar, nor would I likely be able to familiarize myself in time, with enough of the technology to create a light of this type, unless I was told what particular application was intended and what component/s would be needed to put one together. In other words, if someone else can tell me what is needed, I might could probably throw something together provided the LEDs exist that would emit the necessary spectra or nanometers or wavelengths or what have you, in a strong enough and detectable enough format to get actual and useful readings.

It sounds like the crime in question, that of the murder and other violations occurring seven years ago, Might still be solvable if the correct equipment was available. But if the thrust of this post is to help the small agency there acquire stuff for future investigations, then perhaps a fund-raising type of deal would be more in order.

If the CPF admins or community at large were willing, I guess the best thing I could do would be to put up something for raffle or auction, with the proceeds going to the agency towards this cause, much like McGizmo is doing for his friend. And any friend of Jon or Okie_chick is a friend of mine.

Whatsay all?

Re: HELP! ! 9 WAVE FORENSIC LIGHTS

One thought that Okie_Chick had. If this were to become reality and after the agency investigating this had one. She was thinking of us trying to form a foundation to provide some of these to communities that could not get this type of tool otherwise.

Imagine if all police departments being able to have affordable forensic gear. Something really good could come from this.

Re: HELP! ! 9 WAVE FORENSIC LIGHTS

Also consider the use of a grating, which would give a broader spectral separation, especially in a short distance.

Re: HELP! ! 9 WAVE FORENSIC LIGHTS

Hay NewB, sounds like you know, could you make us one a these?

Re: HELP! ! 9 WAVE FORENSIC LIGHTS

Affordable forensic equipment=better/faster gathering of evidence and indentifying perpetuators=faster convictions=deterrent in the long run

This is a worthwhile cause. Good luck guys.

Re: HELP! ! 9 WAVE FORENSIC LIGHTS

bump

Re: HELP! ! 9 WAVE FORENSIC LIGHTS

This is indeed a very worthwhile cause. Anyone else have anything to add?

Re: HELP! ! 9 WAVE FORENSIC LIGHTS

Can a mod make this a sticky please?

Re: HELP! ! ! SOLVE CRIME. . .

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thanks.gif I really appreciate you help Mr. Bulky. Jon has spoke of you often and says you are a real straight shooter.

I appreciate that you would include me as a friend. . .I too will call you friend.

Yes, the fund raiser idea my be an option. . .but the ultimate goal is to supply a unit to all needy task forces so that no one will have to endure what my niece has and still is going through. This type of equipment should have been put in place or made available to law enforcement many moons ago. We can not look back now. . .only forward.

I will be checking in on the particulars on how to set up some type of foundation for my niece so that we may purchase units and distribute where needed.

Appreciate your help and honesty.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Bobbie

Re: HELP! ! 9 WAVE FORENSIC LIGHTS

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/goodjob.gif

I appreciate your input. As Mr. Bulky sez: [ QUOTE ]
Hay NewB, sounds like you know, could you make us one a these?

[/ QUOTE ]

Let us know!

Your help is greatly appreciated!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif

Bobbie

--------------------

Re: HELP! ! ! SOLVE A CRIME. . .

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thanks.gif

Ihz sez:

[ QUOTE ]
Affordable forensic equipment=better/faster gathering of evidence and indentifying perpetuators=faster convictions=deterrent in the long run

This is a worthwhile cause. Good luck guys.

[/ QUOTE ]
You are correct!!!

Re: HELP! ! ! SOLVE A CRIME. . .

I'd be glad to contribute to any fund on this.

Re: HELP! ! ! SOLVE A CRIME. . .

Can one of our LEO folks check with a crime lab to see if evidence gathered with a home made light of this type would screw up the prosecution? Just last week the lawyers in the Scott Peterson trial argued over whether a GPS was accurate enough to use as evidence. I can just see a defence lawyer asking to see the calibration certificate for the 9 in 1 light.

BTW, the idea is great!


Daniel (trying to be additive here, not a naysayer)

Re: HELP! ! ! SOLVE A CRIME. . .

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thanks.gif Flashlight your contribution will be greatly appreciated. But only can be done after we have some type foundation set up for this type of mission. I will keep you posted. If you run across information or someone who knows anything about this type of equipment set please let me know.

Your support is greatly admired!!

Re: HELP! ! ! SOLVE A CRIME. . .

Hello, gadget_lover.

I appreciate the information. . .Flashlight sez:

[ QUOTE ]
Can one of our LEO folks check with a crime lab to see if evidence gathered with a home made light of this type would screw up the prosecution? Just last week the lawyers in the Scott Peterson trial argued over whether a GPS was accurate enough to use as evidence. I can just see a defence lawyer asking to see the calibration certificate for the 9 in 1 light.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are correct. . .I did not think about this being an issue. This will be something that needs to followed up on in great detail.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thanks.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thanks.gif

Bobbie

Re: HELP! ! ! SOLVE A CRIME. . .

That's an excellent point gadget_lover.

Re: HELP! ! ! SOLVE A CRIME. . .

[ QUOTE ]
OKIE_CHICK said:
Hello, gadget_lover.

I appreciate the information. . .Flashlight sez:

[ QUOTE ]
Can one of our LEO folks check with a crime lab to see if evidence gathered with a home made light of this type would screw up the prosecution? Just last week the lawyers in the Scott Peterson trial argued over whether a GPS was accurate enough to use as evidence. I can just see a defence lawyer asking to see the calibration certificate for the 9 in 1 light.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are correct. . .I did not think about this being an issue. This will be something that needs to followed up on in great detail.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thanks.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thanks.gif

Bobbie

[/ QUOTE ]

In the case of GPS, the method doesn't use the GPS module for accuracy it comes from the sattelites, and the references in them are pretty much primary standards. The National Institute of Standards and Technology. Many receivers produce frequency with an uncertainty of < 1 x 10-12 when averaged for one day. Thats 1 trillionth of a second out of one second.

GPS receivers often provide a 1 pulse per second (pps) timing output, as well as standard output frequencies such as 5 and 10 MHz. If properly designed and used, a GPS receiver can provide traceability to the NIST frequency standard. The NIST GPS data archive shows the frequency uncertainty of the signals broadcast from each GPS satellite with respect to NIST.

The definition of traceability tells us that a traceable measurement requires an "unbroken chain of comparisons all having stated uncertainties." In order to show traceability to NIST through the use of GPS, the unbroken chain must stretch from the measurement made with GPS back to NIST.

The time and frequency reference for GPS is provided by the United States Naval Observatory (USNO). The NIST and USNO frequency standards are regularly compared and equivalent at their point of origin to 1 x 10-13 or less. [3] One way to establish the traceability chain is to show the uncertainty of the GPS constellation relative to the USNO frequency standard, and then show the uncertainty of the USNO frequency standard relative to the NIST frequency standard.

A second, more convenient way to establish the traceability chain is through a direct comparison of GPS to the NIST frequency standard. This comparison is made through NIST monitoring of the GPS satellites as discussed in the next section.

There is more here:
http://www.boulder.nist.gov/timefreq/service/gpscal.htm

And you can check out the accuracy for different dates/times since the GPS constellation is constantly monitored here:
http://www.boulder.nist.gov/timefreq/service/gpstrace.htm

Yesterday the 14th, the constellation was 0.000000000000067 of a second fast.


However, calibration of the light box would be important if you were to use it solely as the only method. Often they can be used to identify stuff in the field (e.g. we think we have such and such here), which could then warrant further study in an analysis lab. It is doubtful any of these units could be used in and of itself as the sole means for IDing something, and it would be *rather* full hardy to do so.

A person would mainly use it to find possible evidence, then send that off to get properly tested.

Still, a person could write up a calibration proceedure, and there are many calibration labs around the Nation that would easily be able to do the calibration.