My Arc 4+ is gone. Now what? Need some help.

I didn't want to pollute Peter's Arc closure thread with this, and so thought it best to post seperately. Also, please understand that I am not blaming Peter or Merri for my plight, but rather whatever entity seized Arc's inventory, including items being repaired. Furthermore, Peter and Merri have my sincere condolences, as I've posted in their closure thread.

A couple weeks ago I sent my Arc 4+ rev. 2 to Arc for repair of an excessively stiff switch. Late last week I spoke with Merri by phone to verify that the light had arrived at Arc, which it had, and she suggested I could let them hold it until early October to be fitted with the rev. 3 switch. I chose to go this route, as I was in no hurry to have my light fixed.

Now as we've learned, Arc has closed its doors, and some unknown party has taken possession of all their goods, including MY LIGHT. The problem here is that the light belongs to ME, not Arc, and therefore in legal terms, somebody has stolen my $180 light.

I can prove ownership of my light by virtue of a letter I included with it, of which I have a copy on my computer, citing the serial number. I also have the box and paperwork here at home... but up to this point, Peter has not made it known who has taken possession of Arc's goods, so I don't even have the ability to contact that party to seek return of my lawfully owned light, which they have illegally stolen from me. Nor do I have recourse to pursue legal action, because I can't identify the offending party.

I have no job and no income at present, hence no means to buy another $180 light (even if I could still find one), and my Arc 4+ has been stolen from me. I'll be honest in that I've been really sad and downtrodden all day about this. I've never been robbed before, and guess it just pushed me over the edge with all the other issues I'm dealing with at present.

All I want is my light back. It legally belongs to me. But how can I recover it?

I would even trade lights with somebody for another Arc 4+, as long as it was a nice one. (Mine was like new.) If anyone can help with any of the above, please let me know either in this thread or by PM. I'm embarrassed to come across this way, but I could really use some help here. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mecry.gif

Sorry if I've offended anybody.

You need to somehow, someway get ahold of Peter. See if he will tell you, personally, who took the products. YES, its is YOUR light. I dont see why in hell they(whomever took their invetory) should be allowed to keep it. Thats obsurd. Find out ASAP. Get it back! Or at least your money. Man, this shouldnt have happened this way for Arc. What a great company. But YES, you have been robbed in my head.
Cameron

it seems there were many people that lost their lights in the same fashion. yes, you are right, that light belongs to you. i think Peter should say who the repossessors are so you and others can get their lights back. this process will take some time. hang in there buddy!

Look in that place we're not supposed to talk about "up" here for the answer.

I read every post in that thread and could not find the info.

Scott,

You're right, it was stolen. If/once you find out who did take it, you can always file a claim in your local small claims court if they won't return it.

What I think is most annoying is that most people who returned their lights won't ever know how to get it back, even though it is legally their property.

Call/email/PM Peter and talk to him, I say.

Go underground

Scott, I am not a lawyer and I will try not to play one here on CPF. Here is my general understanding of how these things work. In a bankruptcy proceeding, everything is placed under the administration of a judge. It is up to the court to sort out the assets and the rights of the various claimants. Yes, you are quite right that your light is not an asset of ARC, LLC, but it will still take the court to sort this out. Proceedings of this sort generally result in few satisfied parties and often result in collateral damage to the innocent. Perhaps a CPF member who is more conversant in these proceedings can give you better information. Sorry for the gloomy answer to your question.

Doug is right, the wheels of justice move slowly. I too am not very pleased that other people's property that was in our safe keeping was taken. I have contacted the landlord this morning and asked him to release this property. If he does not comply, I will provide his contact information to those who had their property taken so that you may also try to get your stuff back.

Peter

I am not an attorney, but I have had to deal with a number of bankruptcies. You can get your property back, but it is rarely a simple process. You need to establish ownership, and file a claim with the court. If the Bankruptcy petition has not been filed yet, you can send a demand letter to who ever seized the assets. Peter should have filed for Chapter 11 when he saw this coming, and then the siezures wouldn't have happened. Water under the dam

It can get pretty Ugly, I once had to threaten someone with arrest. They had seized goods on the way back to us because the shipper had gone under. Under our contract, and under US law, title had passed back to us as soon as we replaced the product under warranty (which required a fairly mess declaration, since warranty replacements of validated license exports ARE messy).

The problem was it was a highly restricted, individual transaction licensed export, and the Bureau of Export Administration were very particular about who could have custody in that country. As I pointed out, if he didn't release it, I was going to have to report the events to BXA as an illegal diversion, and that was likely to result in a warrant being issued, and if the guy ever set foor in a Cocom Country (US, Candada and Most of Europe), he could be arrested and extradited to the US for export law violations. He wasn't happy to hear that. He also decided that he didn't want to press his luck. At the time, the US Government was taking a very hard line on export law violations.

The process is much cleaner when a lot more is at stake. For example when a high value piece of eqipment is leased, generally a UCC-1 filed in the county court house. That makes the fact that the equipment belongs to someone else a matter of public record, and often the lease requires a side letter from the landlord, or the landlord's agents agreeing that they will not seize or damage the equiment, and will not interfere with repossession if the owner deems it necessary. The UCC filing is proof in the eyes of the court of ownership, and generally the owner can obtain an order requiring the unconditional release to the owner.

To be blunt, I doubt that many of the owners of ARC goods that were in ARC's possession are ever going to see them again. You are in fact unsecurred creditors unless you can convince the court otherwise after a petition is filed. Otherwise your ownly course of action is against the whoever sized them. For that you will need an attorney, and it is likely to cost far more than it is worth. Somebody however is likely to get a deal on this stuff if it is auctioned off. If it auctioned off as part of the Bankruptcy, you are screwed. Title will be transferred to the new owner by court order. For those of you who paid less than 90 days ago, I'd suggest the first order of business is file a claim with the credit card company.

Good luck

I wonder whether getting replevin (legal term for getting your specific flashlight back BEFORE any court process happens) is possible. Perhaps some lawyer here understands this stuff and can comment.

Knowing almost none of USA bankrupcy code, I illustrated myself by reading in this site: http://www.thebankruptcysite.com/


Pablo

OK, I just got off the phone with the landlord. I asked him again to release just the items that belong to other people. He would not agree. I told him I would refer to him any persons trying to retrieve property.

Email me for his contact information.

Peter

This sounds like a civil landlord/renter problem, not a bankruptcy (at least this part of it). Laws vary from state to state, but generally a landlord can seize and hold renters property in lieu of or until rents are paid. I would imagine that this is treated in the lease itself. Generally, a landlord cannot seize property of others, if he knows it is not the property of the renter.

Bottom line -- you can probably get your lights back. It may take several thousand $$$'s in legal fees to do so. Contact a Nevada attorney with knowledge of real estate law.

Just as a simple wondering question, Why Nevada attorney? Arc is located in Arizona...
Cameron

Well, duh. Vegas on my mind, I guess.

Once ownership is established by a customer, the landlord has no legal right to retain the light. He does not acquire ownership rights through seizure of business that includes assets owned by people unconnected with the underlying litigation.

A thief never acquires lawful title to property and I'd think that if you were to send a demand letter, along with proof of ownership and copies of letter/emails to Arc requesting warranty work, there wouldn't be much to discuss.

If the landlord gets feisty and still refuses I'd file a police report and ask that charges be filed for possession of stolen property. Small claims would be interesting too.

The landlord is certainly owed what's his back rent but no where did his judgment say he now owns other peoples property that just happens to be contained within the walls.

[ QUOTE ]
. For that you will need an attorney, and it is likely to cost far more than it is worth.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can also file a claim with small claims court, or call the local police department to press criminal charges.

Ok, I am a lawyer (But not yours!). First, I'd probably give up on taking this guy to court unless you live or can easily travel to Arizona. Yes, you could sue him for conversion in your state court, but then you would have to serve him with process in another state (long arm jurisdiction issues; cost at least $25-40), set for hearing, take a default judgment when he doesn't show up, and seek to execute your judgment in Arizona (gotta use a federal form for this and involve the local sheriff). You'll probably end up arguing jurisdiction of your state court in Arizona's court. This is a basic outline. It will cost you more than $180 even if you do it yourself.

Now, that doesn't mean this guy can keep your light. In my state (MS), the landlord cannot keep a tenant's stuff for ransom. He can, however, put it on the street for anyone to steal. Go figure. Anyway, the best thing to do is call this guy (get the info from Peter). Be nice, but tell him that he has no legal right to hold on to your property because his tenant did not fulfill his lease agreement. Whatever contract the landlord had with Peter is not binding on you since you were not a party. I'd be careful, just in case there is some quirk in AZ law which allows a landlord to hold the tenant's property. He still couldn't keep yours, but he will be given a reasonable time to sort it out.

You might also call the local police, but I would not threaten this. If the landlord is beligerant, just hang up and call the police. My advice would be to ask their assistance in establishing your ownership, and not try to press criminal charges. This will be a misdemeanor and the cops will want an affidavit.

Flashlightboy is correct, kinda. A person can never gain better title than the person from whom he gets it (bona fide purchasers excepted). Here Peter was a mere bailor, so the landlord is one too now. That means he is responsible/liable for the light. This is something he needs to be wary off. If these lights disappear, he'll have a big mess on his hands.

Hope this helps.

it's way past my bedtime, and i admit i haven't read everything in this thread (it looks like some really good stuff has been said though!), but if this party is holding (stealing!) other peoples property, then some action has got to be taken. if nothing else the combined weight of several (how many people can we count are affected by this) might be enough for him to reconsider.

Maybe if Peter elaborated on what is happening, we would have a better idea of what's going on, and then Milkyspit might be able to make a better decision about his course of action.