cool gun

watching about it on tech tv it is called the p90
http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg13-e.htm

Very specialized, and somewhat controversial 5.7x28mm caliber. Cartridge has been around almost 12 years, without substantial military-industrial success.

I'll admit its very "think-outside-the-box" in design, but most knowledgeable folks agree its only for a very narrow range of tactical implementation.

Problem is, its wounding performance is terrible, in order to make it a pistol cartridge *and* armor piercing. But, it is a cool design and look.

You can see it in use on either Stargate series...

I remember hearing about that weapon several years ago. It looks neat, but it's not hard to see it as being intended for support personnel to spray-and-pray at anyone that happens to get into a rear area.

It looks like the main sight has to be tipped up to reload the weapon - that could negatively effect accuracy (although it looks like it was only intended for short-range engagements of 50-100 yards).

I imagine that the MP5 and the like has more or less displaced this weapon. It does look to be a simple weapon that support personnel could turn to in a pinch.

I always thought that the G11 was a fascinating weapon that should have been deployed.

The amazing thing about the G11 was its ability to fire a 3-round burst with far greater accuracy than any other gun - the 3 shots were compressed into one 60ms burst that produced a single recoil force.

A bit more info.

Actually, idle, to reload the weapon, you press the releases which are at the top of the magazine, and then pull the box up and out between the sight-mounts before dropping a new one in and slapping it into place - the release is ambidextrous (you have to press them both) and it pops it up.

The original purpose of the P90 was to give second-line and non-infantry personnel (read: pilots, tankers, etc) a SMG that was compact, had a good ammunition load (90 rounds), and which was a good 'just in case' gun with AP capability. The gun itself isn't exactly a best-seller, however, due to the round it uses as well as the design.

Incidentally, the MP5 came well before the P90 design was conceived, and for a different purpose - the P90 uses a non-pistol calibre, whereas the bog-standard MP5 is a more traditional SMG in its use of 9mm.

now i have to admit i know little or nothing about guns.but on the show they said the rounds where very good i forget why but they said it hits harder then a 9mm.and man it looks like its eay to fire the guy had to of em at once fireing em at same time.which seems stupid thing to do to me but it looks like the rounds hit very very hard

The 5.7x28mm cartridge was a scaled-up pistol round, designed to penetrate body armor. The main problem with the gun is that it's relatively hard to reload and it's not designed for long-range fighting; if you want to do that, you might as well get a rifle, or at least a carbine.

Like I said, its original purpose was as a second-line weapon for support and non-infantry troops to have handy in case they got raided. It's very compact and has a high ammunition capacity for this purpose.

5.7 is a pistol round, the FN Five-Seven handgun fires it. A M4 with collapsible stock is almost the same size and weight (30", 6.9 lbs for the M4 vs. 20", 6lbs for the P90), and has far greater range, accuracy, lethality, and armor-piercing ability.

I own a 9mm carbine, but it's a range toy. You can make a real rifle small enough to supplant them entirely imo. Pistol rounds are just limited in ballistics performance.

I don't know about you, but I'd consider 10" and a lot fewer rounds in the box (35 versus 50) a big deal if I was a tanker or a pilot. They're not depending on those things, and considering that it does take a few moments to get the stock out (and thus allowing you to have that increased accuracy in the first place), a simple 'spray and pray' weapon like the P90 with its built-in reflex-type sight (closest match to the red-dot they use) probably is enough, since they're likely to get killed if the enemy's decently armed anyhow. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Maybe the XM-8 might solve the problem?

Since there seems to be interest on this subject, here'a copy of my post discussing this over at Usualsuspect.net:

---begin copy

Okay, we've had this discussion before--on the 5.7x28mm that is--and while very high on the cool factor, you should be aware that this is a very specialized weapon to fill a very small tactical niche.

I know many of you out there are speed junkies, but the faster-and-lighter-school of design has really gone out on a limb here.

Remember, taking down a bad guy requires hits on the CNS or bleeding out, and absent direct hits on the CNS, this tiny round at hyperspeeds will not be creating sufficient wound channels to get the job done, even after multiple hits. Recall the problems with Rangers had in Mogadishu with their .223 AP ammo on the Somali technicals.

From Dr. Martin Fackler's article, entitled "Puny PDW Bullets Perform Poorly Putting the Lives of their Users in Peril."

In criticizing both the FN P90 (5.7x28mm) & HK MP7 (4.6x30mm) Fackler writes:

"...Despite...absurb exaggerations of its cabilities by FN (claiming it makes a larger wound than a .44 Magnum HP bullet)...the P90 has hung around for more than a decade without any notable success...."

"...this group of weapons [PDW's], with tiny bullets in the .22 Short weight range, possessing less wounding capacity than the .22 rimfire magnum bullet, has been given the "catchy" name "Personal Defense Weapons" apparently to make them appear to be something exceptional -- and to direct attention of potential purchasers to their name, diverting it from their woefully deficient wounding capacity..."

"...PDW bullet developers have apparently forgot that their PDW bullets produce temporary cavities of only about three inches in diameter -- and it is well understood that temporary cavities smaller than about five inches in diameter cannot be relied upon to add significantly to a bullet's wounding capacity on a human target."

Finally,

"...the PDW bullets are considerably outclassed by standard military FMJ bullets. When compared to the modern well-constructed hollow-point handgun bullets used by the police, the PDW bullets aren't even in the same ballpark. By no stretch of the imagination is the PDW bullet adequate for law enforcement work: its use is likely to get police officers killed.." [note: emphasis is Dr. Fackler's]

They used this gun on Stargate SG1, cool.