Is 60 Lumens about right for 25 yard range?

Hi all, I'm a noob and I have a question.

I've been doing a bunch of research on a new flashlight and think I know what I want but I wanted to get some input.
I looking at getting a Surefire E2D partly because I love the look of the light and don't mind paying a little extra for what appears to be a really well made light.
I just need to know if 60 lumens would be sufficient to illuminate an object at about a 25 yard range (the diagonal length of my back yard) and also how wide an area would be illuminated.
FlashLightReviews.com states that the E2D has a 38.73 throw (1 lux of illumination at 38.73 metres) but also states that "1 Lux is a pretty pathetic amount of light". 25 yards would be about 23 metres so how much light can I expect at that range?
Anyone have an E2D? What is the thread dimension in the switch bezel?

it has a lot to do with the refelcter or optics being used

[ QUOTE ]
raggie33 said:
it has a lot to do with the refelcter or optics being used

[/ QUOTE ]

So with the reflector and optics in the E2D would 60 lumens be adequate?

it should be fine

I'm pretty sure the E2d can reach 25 yards pretty easily.

Lumens is a measure of total light output. It does not take into account how focused the light is. You could change the focus on your E2d, and you wouldn't change the lumen rating at all (except for reflector inefficency, but let's forget about that).

Candlepower is kind of like the opposite. It measures the brightness, but only in the center of the beam. As you change the focus, you will definitely change the candlepower measurement.

If I understand it correctly.....Lumens is NOT a judge of range. Its just how much light (in all directions) emmitted. Lux is a better indicator of range (throw).

For instance, my Pelican M6 LED (41 lumens) has a range of over I think 50 yards--I lit up a deer on a hill at pitch black nighttime that was really far away while taking a night hike. Part of the reason it throws well is the reflector creates a narrow beam (although, it does have good sidespill for short range too). However, there are some flashlights that could potentially have more lumens, but not go as far due to having a flood type beam (i.e. less defined hotspot).

I guess I phrased my question a bit wrong. I should have asked if the E2D was a suitable light rather than asking if the 60 lumen rating would work. Sorry about that.

Anyone out there using a E2E or E2D with direct experience with the light over a 25 yard range?

Also, anyone know any specifics about the threaded holes in the base?

^If the beam is anything like a Surefire 6P beam, it will throw plenty of light for 25 yards. My 6P Surefire throws a ton of light out to 25 yards and beyond.

I don't have a Defender to compare directly to the 6P, but I think they would be similar?

From what I've seen of the E2d in life, I don't think there's too much of a problem lighting up an object 25 yards away with the E2D. If you want a general idea of how it'll perform, you can check out Kiessling's shootout thread The E2d should perform similar to, if not better than (the E2d I've seen have better beams than E2es) the E2e listed there. The beamshot should be a little more than half way down the page.

welcome to cpf thelimey. for got to say that earlier /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

I took my E2e (and other SFs) to the shooting range a couple of weeks ago. I turned out the lights and sent a target to the 25 yard line.

I honestly don't remember how well it did. Since the target was in almost total darkness, I think the E2e probably put out enough light to see it--and that was with partially depleted batteries. I could rerun the exercise on Sunday if anybody is still interested (no pictures, though).

The E2e and E2d are about right for pants pocket carry. At home, however, I leave my brightest light (M6) on my nightstand.

TheLimey,

The E2e was my first light too. What drove me crazy about it was the way the light dimmed as the batteries ran dry. Shortly after my E2e purchase, I got into regulated LED lights, and have never looked back.

There are many LED lights around here based on a 27mm reflector that will run circles around an E2e and will shoot a beam out to 100 yards.

Another aspect to consider with the Surefire E2...and that is the fact that the small size of the light may make it uncomfortably small for someone with big hands. I love my E2e but find it is slightly hard to grasp...but is great for an EDC light.

Hello TheLimey,

Welcome to CPF.

You have figured out that Doug's (Quickbeam) charts show throw down to 1 lux. If you take that number and square it, you will have the output of the light at 1 meter = lux = candela. In this case, 38.73 squared = 1500.

Light falls off with the square of distance. To figure how much light there is going to be at a distance, we have:
candela = lux times distance squared.

For the E2 light:
1500 = 1500 times 1 squared.

Now comes the hard part. You need to decide how much light you can live with. 54 lux is enough to read a book, 0.11 lux is about the light from a full moon.

For illustration, let's say you want to set 5 lux as your lower limit.

Now we have:
1500 (which was our candela figure at 1 meter) divided by the 5 (the amount of lux we want) = distance in meters squared. We can take the square root of both sides and come up with:
SQRT(1500/5) = 17.32

at a little over 17 meters, the light will be at 5 lux.

The problem is coming up with how much light you need (or want). I have taken a candle and placed objects 1 foot away (foot candles) and then backed off to see what it looks like from a distance. 1 foot candle = 10.764 lux.

With all that said, I think the E2 will work fine for you.

Tom

TheLimey, welcome to CPF! One of the first things you realize about Surefire lights is that they aren't designed with throw as the main priority. They are designed to have the best beam quality combined with good throw and brightness. In light polluted situations, you might want something more than a 2x123 Surefire, but otherwise you should do very well. If you find that you like the E2D but want to add a better throwing light to your collection, you might want to check out the Pelican M6, which ranks up near the top of 2x123 lights for throw and is a relative bargain at $33 from batterystation.com.

If seeing something 25 yds away is the prime raeson you want a light...

There are plenty of choices that will cost less and "throw" better than the E2s.

The Pelican M6 is one of these. It is somewhat larger than the E2 (more along the lines of a G2) but very robustly built and I THINK stays bright a bit longer.

There are a few LED lights that can do it too. The Inova XO is quite focused and throws well. Now we hear that the Inova T1 is just as throwy, in a smaller size and with a clickie.

The Pelican lights with the recoil technology are supposed to throw like crazy too.

None of the afor mentioned LEDs have much spill however.

For that you need a Minim*g with a Lambda 3W Drop in pill. Mine lets me see between houses across the street (25 yds EASY!) enough to know if someone is there and if carrying a weapon. And this is with a streetlight just to the right and above where I'm looking.

I don't remember if I tried the XO like that, but in my backyard the back fence is 50 feet from the side garage door and the XO was superb at that distance.

Define what you want the light to do. Don't just "focus" on throw. There is a LOT to be said for a balance between throw and flood.

And welcome to CPF! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif

I find that the high beam quality of SF lights enhances throw by removing holes in the beam. Also, the user doesn't have to goof around with the focus ring.

My .02 USD is that the E2 might be pushing it a bit at 25 yards. I'd grab one of the 9V lights like the 9P. Is 25 yards your maximum range for this application, or the average range? Also, even if the beam reaches, how big of an area are you trying to illuminate? Car-sized? Racoon-sized?

Limey:

A while back I participated in a low-light 25-yard shooting exercise, and tried a bunch of different lights. An Arc LS-2 would light up a target well enough to get a sight picture at 25 yards (pitch black dark) but identification was tough. The E2E was much better and will allow you to see what is in a target's hands. If you want to light up a whole scene you may want a different light, but for limited tactical use the E2E, E2D etc. will work.

E series, 2 Cell? No. Not 75 feet.
E series, E2C, P60 LA, or P61 LA. Yes.

The E2 series are really nice little lights but when you mention looking around the back yard no flashlight with in reason will out gun an inexpensive Dollar Store rechargeable spotlight that can be had for $10.00 buy both of them /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif and use the E2 for personal carry and keep the spotlight by the back door to blast the night away /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Later
Sway