Originality of Multi-LED Flashlight
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ViReN
Flashlight Enthusiast
I dont know about that but i certainly know one thing here on CPF.
It is not proper to have Display names as that of a Manufacturer Unless you represent Nuwai in some or the other way.
It is not proper to have Display names as that of a Manufacturer Unless you represent Nuwai in some or the other way.
idleprocess
Flashaholic
The X5 is the oldest unit I can think of off-hand. I'm sure there are older designs.
There are a number of goofy patents for LED flashlights that would hurredly collapse if seriously challenged.
There are a number of goofy patents for LED flashlights that would hurredly collapse if seriously challenged.
You mean "origination," not "originality."
C'mon, let's show a little hospitality to a newbie. He or she may actually work for Nuwai and English may well be a second language. This is their first post, let's try to help by answering the question and worry about protocol later.
My first multi LED was the PL3. 3LED head with 3AAA body.
My first multi LED was the PL3. 3LED head with 3AAA body.
There were custom modified flashlights with as many as 70 LED lamps that I remember seeing on Ebay even before the idea of high-end LED flashlights took hold. I'd say the early modders may have led the way. Before the LS, multiple lamps were the only way to get much brightness. That doesn't mean a commercial interest didn't attempt to put it on the market though. The price of multiple LED lights may have been a prohibitive factor.
Steelwolf
Flashlight Enthusiast
Hello Nuwai and welcome to the forums.
The earliest example of hand-held, multi-emitter LED lights I can think of are the PL series manufactured by Trek or CCrane. This was the PL3 which used 3 AA cells to power 3 Nichia 5mm LEDs. Plastic (polycarbonate?) body, Lexan head. Very simple design, but watertight and it worked well.
I'm not sure if anyone can hold a patent for having multiple emitters in one flashlight since this is an obvious extension on an existing idea. Heck, we can go back even further than LEDs if we're looking for multiple emitters in a single flashlight. I'm sure Petzl's Duo predates LEDs. Or how about car headlamps with separate bulbs for high and low beam?
Now back to protocol:
Are you representing the manufacturer Nuwai, or is that realy your name? It is just that we don't like newbies coming on the scene and using a manufacturer's name because then if the manufacturer decides to come on board, they will not have an easily recognisable name since it would already have been taken up.
Also, the question you asked sounds like you are fishing for information to be used in a patent claims suit. We don't like relative unknowns asking this sort of information. For all we know, you could be someone planning to initiate suits against some of our beloved manufacturers or custom makers for patent infringements or something.
I sure hope you're not planning to use this information in any way we don't approve of.
And, of course, if this was not your intention, then I hope you forgive our suspicions. Stick around, let us get to know you better, then it you wouldn't seem so suspicious asking this sort of question.
The earliest example of hand-held, multi-emitter LED lights I can think of are the PL series manufactured by Trek or CCrane. This was the PL3 which used 3 AA cells to power 3 Nichia 5mm LEDs. Plastic (polycarbonate?) body, Lexan head. Very simple design, but watertight and it worked well.
I'm not sure if anyone can hold a patent for having multiple emitters in one flashlight since this is an obvious extension on an existing idea. Heck, we can go back even further than LEDs if we're looking for multiple emitters in a single flashlight. I'm sure Petzl's Duo predates LEDs. Or how about car headlamps with separate bulbs for high and low beam?
Now back to protocol:
Are you representing the manufacturer Nuwai, or is that realy your name? It is just that we don't like newbies coming on the scene and using a manufacturer's name because then if the manufacturer decides to come on board, they will not have an easily recognisable name since it would already have been taken up.
Also, the question you asked sounds like you are fishing for information to be used in a patent claims suit. We don't like relative unknowns asking this sort of information. For all we know, you could be someone planning to initiate suits against some of our beloved manufacturers or custom makers for patent infringements or something.
I sure hope you're not planning to use this information in any way we don't approve of.
And, of course, if this was not your intention, then I hope you forgive our suspicions. Stick around, let us get to know you better, then it you wouldn't seem so suspicious asking this sort of question.
Stainless
Flashlight Enthusiast
[ QUOTE ]
RonM said:
C'mon, let's show a little hospitality to a newbie. He or she may actually work for Nuwai and English may well be a second language. This is their first post, let's try to help by answering the question and worry about protocol later.
[/ QUOTE ]
Welcome Nuwai!
RonM said:
C'mon, let's show a little hospitality to a newbie. He or she may actually work for Nuwai and English may well be a second language. This is their first post, let's try to help by answering the question and worry about protocol later.
[/ QUOTE ]
Welcome Nuwai!
HDS_Systems
Enlightened
Nuwai,
I can easily trace multi-LED white flashlights to 1997. That was when I built my first 25-LED array of white LEDs. A production light (the Action Light I) was designed and went into production in 1998. The same year also saw a 48-LED Action Light of which only a few were made and sold. And a 19-LED drop-in module for the Princeton Tek Solo. And a 7-LED drop-in module for the Mini-mag flashlight. The latter two were never sold commercially, although working prototypes were built.
Several European Cavers also built some large white LED arrays around the same timeframe - the largest one being 50 LEDs on a circular circuit board.
Further, there were several articles published in publications of wide circulation in 1997 and 1998 which discussed the use of arrays of LEDs.
Now if we take a look at the use of non-white LEDs, we can go much further back. I talked to an guy in Australia that had build a 96 LED array using red, amber, green and blue LEDs for his bicycle. His early arrays originated from at least 1995.
I also built a 4 LED combo light - modifying a Kohler Mine Spot to include 4 HP amber LEDs and a smaller incandescent main light. The main light is for running around and the 4 LEDs are for in camp, eating or just waiting around so I would not have to sit in the dark when the main beam was turned off. For long duration cave trips if you were wondering. That would be the early 1990s, although I don't remember exactly which year. If I had to, I could track it down from public records.
Prior to HP introducing the high brightness amber LEDs, LEDs were not real practical as a navigation light source and were mostly used as survey markers and such by the caving community. If you were desperate, you could use one of these to find your way out. Again, I forget exactly which year HP started marketing the high brightness amber LEDs, but they were handing out free flashlights made from these LEDs to show how bright they were. I still have one. Arrays of these LEDs followed quickly.
All the patents that I am aware of for LED flashlights were filed after the Action Light went to market - at least one year after. Therefore, the Action Light represents pre-existing artwork that invalidates all such patents I am aware of.
Henry.
I can easily trace multi-LED white flashlights to 1997. That was when I built my first 25-LED array of white LEDs. A production light (the Action Light I) was designed and went into production in 1998. The same year also saw a 48-LED Action Light of which only a few were made and sold. And a 19-LED drop-in module for the Princeton Tek Solo. And a 7-LED drop-in module for the Mini-mag flashlight. The latter two were never sold commercially, although working prototypes were built.
Several European Cavers also built some large white LED arrays around the same timeframe - the largest one being 50 LEDs on a circular circuit board.
Further, there were several articles published in publications of wide circulation in 1997 and 1998 which discussed the use of arrays of LEDs.
Now if we take a look at the use of non-white LEDs, we can go much further back. I talked to an guy in Australia that had build a 96 LED array using red, amber, green and blue LEDs for his bicycle. His early arrays originated from at least 1995.
I also built a 4 LED combo light - modifying a Kohler Mine Spot to include 4 HP amber LEDs and a smaller incandescent main light. The main light is for running around and the 4 LEDs are for in camp, eating or just waiting around so I would not have to sit in the dark when the main beam was turned off. For long duration cave trips if you were wondering. That would be the early 1990s, although I don't remember exactly which year. If I had to, I could track it down from public records.
Prior to HP introducing the high brightness amber LEDs, LEDs were not real practical as a navigation light source and were mostly used as survey markers and such by the caving community. If you were desperate, you could use one of these to find your way out. Again, I forget exactly which year HP started marketing the high brightness amber LEDs, but they were handing out free flashlights made from these LEDs to show how bright they were. I still have one. Arrays of these LEDs followed quickly.
All the patents that I am aware of for LED flashlights were filed after the Action Light went to market - at least one year after. Therefore, the Action Light represents pre-existing artwork that invalidates all such patents I am aware of.
Henry.
PeLu
Flashlight Enthusiast
[ QUOTE ]
HDS_Systems said:Prior to HP introducing the high brightness amber LEDs, LEDs were not real practical as a navigation light source...
Again, I forget exactly which year HP started marketing the high brightness amber LEDs, but they were handing out free flashlights made from these LEDs
[/ QUOTE ]
I've seen this very same light in August 1988. (and was impressed, of course).
To stay on topic: I think my first multi-LED light might date back in the early 80ies, but it was not really intended as a light to walk by (but used for it, just to try it).
HDS_Systems said:Prior to HP introducing the high brightness amber LEDs, LEDs were not real practical as a navigation light source...
Again, I forget exactly which year HP started marketing the high brightness amber LEDs, but they were handing out free flashlights made from these LEDs
[/ QUOTE ]
I've seen this very same light in August 1988. (and was impressed, of course).
To stay on topic: I think my first multi-LED light might date back in the early 80ies, but it was not really intended as a light to walk by (but used for it, just to try it).
ViReN
Flashlight Enthusiast
[ QUOTE ]
HDS_Systems said:
.....
And a 7-LED drop-in module for the Mini-mag flashlight. The latter two were never sold commercially, although working prototypes were built.
....
Henry.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hello Henry,
Sorry to go offtopic but i am too excited...
I am really a no-one and a total newbie when it comes to modding & manufacturing... however... I wonder you had dropped the project for the 7 LED MiniMag Light (though i have nothing to do with it). May be you consider it this time again because there are many people like me who will definately like to have something like 6 or 7 LED Dropin. Luxeon's are good for an hour or 2 but if LED's driven at lets say 20 mA and converter efficiency is about 80 percent with use of ordinary alkaline cells (of capacity of 1200mAH) the total the near full brightness runtime would be of the order of 7 - 8 hours and 14 to 16 hours for the new Sanyo 2500 mAH Cells. The there will be a good amount of light. I have experimented a little with this here. It will be a runaway success if you make something like this.
Just a thought...
Thanks & Regards,
ViReN
HDS_Systems said:
.....
And a 7-LED drop-in module for the Mini-mag flashlight. The latter two were never sold commercially, although working prototypes were built.
....
Henry.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hello Henry,
Sorry to go offtopic but i am too excited...
I am really a no-one and a total newbie when it comes to modding & manufacturing... however... I wonder you had dropped the project for the 7 LED MiniMag Light (though i have nothing to do with it). May be you consider it this time again because there are many people like me who will definately like to have something like 6 or 7 LED Dropin. Luxeon's are good for an hour or 2 but if LED's driven at lets say 20 mA and converter efficiency is about 80 percent with use of ordinary alkaline cells (of capacity of 1200mAH) the total the near full brightness runtime would be of the order of 7 - 8 hours and 14 to 16 hours for the new Sanyo 2500 mAH Cells. The there will be a good amount of light. I have experimented a little with this here. It will be a runaway success if you make something like this.
Just a thought...
Thanks & Regards,
ViReN
HDS_Systems
Enlightened
Viren,
There are already 2 or 3 MiniMag retrofits on the market, as I seem to remember. I don't know anything about them but I seem to remember the price was fairly reasonable. I have no clue how bright or how efficient they are. The issue of runtime is one of power consumption, which in turn with efficiency determines light output.
One of the existing vendors would be a better fit for manufacturing a brighter and possibly more efficient retrofit. Or even Peak. At this time, such a retrofit is not a good match for HDS Systems. But thank you for suggesting it.
Henry.
There are already 2 or 3 MiniMag retrofits on the market, as I seem to remember. I don't know anything about them but I seem to remember the price was fairly reasonable. I have no clue how bright or how efficient they are. The issue of runtime is one of power consumption, which in turn with efficiency determines light output.
One of the existing vendors would be a better fit for manufacturing a brighter and possibly more efficient retrofit. Or even Peak. At this time, such a retrofit is not a good match for HDS Systems. But thank you for suggesting it.
Henry.
Leeoniya
Enlightened
i know theledlight has been offering clusters of LEDs for quite some time, i think even before the X5, just not in flashlight form. i also know that my friends and i manufactured about 25 circuit boards that we designed for an optical QC system on the assembly lines at the Bosch automotive plant. a few years back, even before theledlight started offering them. they all ran off of a 24v supply rail. we made good $$ on them. LEDs, electronics, boards and everything including drill bits, routing bits, PNP blue, etchant...each board cost us maybe $10-$15 to produce, but when Bosch cut us a PO, we charged about $150/piece. which may seem like a lot, but we tested the crap out of all of them, each was encased in thermally conductive epoxy that has aluminum powder in it. so it was well worth their money, as far as we know, they havent had a single problem with any of them. i will post some pics, of course.
I've got one of the original Enternalights. it was made right after the intial run of 10 or so of hand made ones.
the original eternal lights had multiple leds that were IC regulated with all sorts of functions. from dimming to strobing
I still have the original package. the instructions bragged about being the world only flashlight that needed instructions and were printed in 1998. (if I remember right, gotta dig out the old eternalight)
Who was first to market Enternalight or HDS?
the original eternal lights had multiple leds that were IC regulated with all sorts of functions. from dimming to strobing
I still have the original package. the instructions bragged about being the world only flashlight that needed instructions and were printed in 1998. (if I remember right, gotta dig out the old eternalight)
Who was first to market Enternalight or HDS?
In '73 while in college, I built a circular array of LED's that were triggered by their own reed switchs remotely located on the roof in a home made anamometer. If the wind was from the right quadrant, a relay was closed and these LED's would light up in my room at 5 A.M. to awake me to a favorable off shore wind condition and time to go check the surf!
Well heck, it was multi-LED flashing lights and the reflected light off the walls and ceiling were used as a means of illumination. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif Art, however was not established and after sleeping through a couple great predawn sessions, I wired a 110V 100W Incan via relay to one of the anamometer reed switches for a more invasive wake up call. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
The only reason I have shared this is because I just *know* Nuawi was curious! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nana.gif Welcome Nuawi!
Well heck, it was multi-LED flashing lights and the reflected light off the walls and ceiling were used as a means of illumination. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif Art, however was not established and after sleeping through a couple great predawn sessions, I wired a 110V 100W Incan via relay to one of the anamometer reed switches for a more invasive wake up call. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
The only reason I have shared this is because I just *know* Nuawi was curious! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nana.gif Welcome Nuawi!
Seems like an honest question. Ive never seen a regular flashlight with multiple bulbs, why did they do that with LED? Ive often though of the 20 or so led lights as a shxxxy excuse for something technology isnt ready to do.
In 97 I bought a 3 led tek light from the ccrane company if that helps.
In 97 I bought a 3 led tek light from the ccrane company if that helps.
270winchester
Flashlight Enthusiast
[ QUOTE ]
cobb said:
Seems like an honest question. Ive never seen a regular flashlight with multiple bulbs, why did they do that with LED? Ive often though of the 20 or so led lights as a shxxxy excuse for something technology isnt ready to do.
In 97 I bought a 3 led tek light from the ccrane company if that helps.
[/ QUOTE ]
there is. the SF 10x dominator and 9AX(or is it NX) rechagables both have high/low out put bulbs, but from what I understnad their bulbs are offset such that the 10x has 2 reflectors, one for the the HOLA and one for the LOLA, not quite sure how hte other one works. But having many smaller , dimmer bulbs would creat too much current demand from the power source.
It wouldn;t make sense to have multiple, small, low out put bulb since the configuration would cause the emmitting light to interfere with each other, since normal incandescent light bulbs emitt to all directions and having an array of them would make a lof of light to be lost bouncing from one bulb to another, and the fact that with a base big enough for multiple bulbs, much of light will be lost due to the unusability of the light that emitt downwards. just imagine how a reflector is mounted on conventional flashights and see that almost all of light bounces off the reflector at some point, and then imagine if there is a second bulb, and the side of which the two bulbs are facing each other lose much of the amount of light produced and projected in that direction
5mm-type LEDs are inherently directional flood light sources, so not much light goes to the side, and in turn not much light is lost from lateral interference. plus the low current draw of the LED's make them perfect for long-running light source from relatively few numbers of battery cells.
Nick
cobb said:
Seems like an honest question. Ive never seen a regular flashlight with multiple bulbs, why did they do that with LED? Ive often though of the 20 or so led lights as a shxxxy excuse for something technology isnt ready to do.
In 97 I bought a 3 led tek light from the ccrane company if that helps.
[/ QUOTE ]
there is. the SF 10x dominator and 9AX(or is it NX) rechagables both have high/low out put bulbs, but from what I understnad their bulbs are offset such that the 10x has 2 reflectors, one for the the HOLA and one for the LOLA, not quite sure how hte other one works. But having many smaller , dimmer bulbs would creat too much current demand from the power source.
It wouldn;t make sense to have multiple, small, low out put bulb since the configuration would cause the emmitting light to interfere with each other, since normal incandescent light bulbs emitt to all directions and having an array of them would make a lof of light to be lost bouncing from one bulb to another, and the fact that with a base big enough for multiple bulbs, much of light will be lost due to the unusability of the light that emitt downwards. just imagine how a reflector is mounted on conventional flashights and see that almost all of light bounces off the reflector at some point, and then imagine if there is a second bulb, and the side of which the two bulbs are facing each other lose much of the amount of light produced and projected in that direction
5mm-type LEDs are inherently directional flood light sources, so not much light goes to the side, and in turn not much light is lost from lateral interference. plus the low current draw of the LED's make them perfect for long-running light source from relatively few numbers of battery cells.
Nick
tvodrd
*Flashaholic* ,
Somebody help me with the time frame, but when the Panasonic blue LEDs on the rear cover of Digikey's catalog were $6+ each I built a 14 led array that snapped on a 9V. It has a triple DIP switch which allows the selection of 2,4,6,8,10,12, or 14 of them and a tiny togle switch for off/on. (Really dumb idea as after about 6, the 9V starts to sink and no overall gain. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif (I still have it and no, I haven't tried it on a 9V Nicad.)
Larry
Larry
